New Routes - Where ?

[Quinsam]

If I was David Hahn, I would make a new route between YVR and Duke Point, as a truck only route to take the stuff off route 2, and the Alberni could be on that route.
Then a brand new spirit to replace the Alberni on route 30, Named Spirit of Georgia Strait.

[Low Light Mike]

I was thinking the same thing as Harry: Use the Alberni for a truck-only service......but run it from DeltaPort area to either Swartz or Duke.

I don't know what to do about the Alberni's upper-car-deck though?

If it's going to be a money-making-route, that it had better be lower-mainland to the Island. Anywhere else will lose money.

[Dane]

Downtown to Downtown Nanaimo/Victoria/Vancouver would be nice... HL covers one of the two already.

And as Harry mentioned several weeks ago there is the fringe Galiano-Gabriola market where we could put the MIll Bay. I think we didn't take that seriously enough

[Quinsam]

The Mill bay route would be essential for going to Gabriola, especially those on Galiano, because otherwise they need to take the Nanaimo to Tsawwassen, which is not very often, and then exchange to route 30, and that is very busy, then exchange to the Quinsa,, so it is an Essential route.
That is the route's goodness, here are the ways it will work.
Galiano-Gabriola, then exchange to Quinsam to Nanaimo, and it will make money, because the route is a good one.

[Koastal Karl]

Yeah, but how many people from Galiano would go to Gabriola and vise versa??? I wouldent think too many.

[DENelson83]

Three words. Courtenay to Vancouver. But only two or three times a day.

[Shane]

Making a car ferry service from French Creek to Lasqueti Island.
Put a boat like this www.harlowmarine.com/index.php?action=view_piece&id=429&trail=1:1:43:429:3 on the run.
This boat could probably carry 4 cars and 40 passengers. It would be perfect for a small island like Lasqueti.
There could be five sailings to and from Lasqueti per day and 3 sailings on Sundays.

[NMcKay]

lasquiti has already said they dont want cars.

[kylefossett]

cascade said:

Do any of you have ideas about a pure passenger service - you have talked about commercial truck - large vehicle service - so what about something like what Harbourlynx offer - they are keeping there heads above water and starting to do OK.

Maybe Sidney / Victoria to Vancouver ? Thereby it competes with the short hop of the airline Business.

Anyone thinking outside the box ?

to compete with the float planes and helijet i think that you would have to be able to do a one way trip in about the same time as they do. alot of people (gov't, corporate, etc.) will go from downtown to downtown in the am for a meeting and be back in their respectful downtown and office just after lunch

[QTeen]

Any votes for my route?

[Mike C]

Okay. I suggest putting the Nimpkish into some use, as it is collecting dust in Blubber Bay. For this ferry I say that it should be on Mill-Brentwood, and then th Mill Bay would come up to do Sayward-Hardewick Island

[Low Light Mike]

QTeen said:

Any votes for my route?

Harry: sorry, I don't like your route idea. Yes, it is possible geographically. Yes, it is interesting to consider, since those 2 islands (Gabriola & Galiano) are nearby neighbours, but don't have a direct connection. Yes, it is possible that some Galiano residents might use this route as a quicker way to get to Nanaimo.

But No, I don't believe this route would be economically feasible, because I don't think there is enough revenue potential (ie. not enough users to make it profitable).

But for fun, lets think about some details on a Galiano/Gabriola car ferry route (NOTE: this is pure fantasy dreaming here):

1) Where would the terminals be located? Existing terminals would make for a very long and impossible voyage: Think thru the geography and you'll agree......Sturdies Bay to Descanso Bay is crazy.

2) Per point #1 above, new terminals would need to be constructed. Land would need to be bought. The logical location on Galiano is to be at the north end of the island, somewhere on Porlier Pass Road.....north of Bodega Ridge. But the north tip of Galiano is FirstNations land. Also, the Islands-Trust is very likely to block any new development in Galiano or Gabriola for ferry terminals. If you don't believe me, then talk to any private land owner on a gulf island, and ask them what they are allowed to do with property.

3) Gabriola terminal would need to be somewhere on the south-east side, say near Silva Bay or Drumbeg Park. Again, do you know how expensive waterfront property is on the gulf islands?

4) Assuming that land can be acquired for 2 new terminals, you will now need to construct 2 new terminals: marine structures, paving, waiting area, ticket booths. $ $ $ needed here.

5) For the items needed so far: Land, terminal construction costs....you now need a vessel.....presumably something like the Nicola or Garibaldi-II would do. So that's not a concern...short-term.

6) How high would fares have to be, in order to recover your capital costs (land & terminals) over say a 10 year period, and to meet your annual operating costs? I think the resulting fare would be ridiculous.

7) Residential protests expected, as Gabriolans & Galianoians are Islanders for a reason....they want to live in an isolated island. Don't mess with their island-rights.

Harry, if you'd like to discuss (again, purely fantasy dreaming on my part), I'm most interested in your intended route for such a service. Get your map & charts, and let me know what you think. Don't forget about my Point #2 above, about lack of available land on Northern Galiano.

have fun thinking more about this.....

[Low Light Mike]

mainlander101 said:

Okay. I suggest putting the Nimpkish into some use, as it is collecting dust in Blubber Bay. For this ferry I say that it should be on Mill-Brentwood, and then th Mill Bay would come up to do Sayward-Hardewick Island

Are you sure that any other vessel can fit into the Mill Bay / Brentwood docks??? better be sure......

[QTeen]

Actually, Flugel Horn, I meant that the Mill Bay should go from the Northern Tip of Galiano Island to South Gabriola.

[Low Light Mike]

QTeen said:

Actually, Flugel Horn, I meant that the Mill Bay should go from the Northern Tip of Galiano Island to South Gabriola.

ok: so please explain how that would work. What would the route be.....S P E C I F I C A L L Y ??

W H E R E would it pick up cars and let them off (ie Terminals) ??

So, please elaborate on your route. please re-read my post, and address the issues.

You want discussion on your idea, I presume....so please discuss.

[Ferryman]

Fast Ferry From Vancouver to Sidney- 1 hour to 1 and 15 mins, for a price possibly similar to Harbourlynx, $20-$50

Plane from Victoria to Vancouver-Depending on traffic delays and what not, half an hour to an hour, $100-$200

Float Plane- 20-30mins, $75-150

Helijet-somewhere between the price of the ride on a float plane to the cost to fly from airport to airport

[Ferryman]

$30 and be there in 45mins? I think that would be a fair deal and even better with a $50 return fare. The only thing about going to Sidney with a PAX Ferry, is getting to Downtown Victoria, as that is the place most people want to see. The Harbour, Legislature, Empress, Wax Museum, it's all there. So to have a shuttle bus go from Sidney to Victoria would be...hmm haven't been there in two years....at a rough estimate I would say that would take 15-30mins. Same to go from the Victoria Airport.
From the Vancouver Airport, that would take about 30-45mins, but depending on how traffic is while going through Richmond.

"If there was a PAX service....would I use it?"

Well, when I go to the Island, usually every 2 months or so, I am willing to spend about $100 for the whole trip, being a walk-on passenger on a BCF, and I'll usually spend about $20 for the Ferry fare and another $20 for meals (I usually travel at dinner time either way). But if I was anxious to get over there to see my Girlfriend, I would use the highspeed ferry, but would take my time coming home. The only problem with that, is that it's going to Sidney, so that's when I would use the Harbourlynx to go to Nanaimo, because I go to Ladysmith, 20 mins south of Nanaimo.

[Mike C]

QTeen said:

Actually, Flugel Horn, I meant that the Mill Bay should go from the Northern Tip of Galiano Island to South Gabriola.

This would take awhile, as it must go by Valdes Island. I suggest running it as a three-way, via Valdes if this route comes up in the future

[Alex]

cascade said:

I wonder about the youth of BC today and where the province is going if we have to relay on what I see been offer here - no visionary - clear thinkers -

OK Sorry for this rant - there are few of you which I think do offer a lot - you know who you are - and I for one would be very happy and privilege to work with you - great thinkers...so come on the rest of you - engage a few cells and see where it takes you...

I think thats a bit harsh on some of the people here. You have to remember that there's a bunch of people in their early teens, so you can't expect real world knowledge. As for many others, we don't live in many of these areas and islands, so there's no way to tell who wants to go where.

[Low Light Mike]

As far as thinking about where the population is growing....from a Nanaimo point of view I can tell you that it's north Nanaimo and also "Oceanside" which is Parksville, Qualicum-Beach.....and even up to the Comox Valley.

This means that a mainland route connecting say Horseshoe-Bay with a Vancouver Island terminal located at say Nanoose Bay or French Creek might have a market, with growth potential.

So I guess we first identify the market, which I've just done.

Secondly we can consider logistics, that might make this route impossible or economically unfeasible because of capital or operating costs. So, lets consider the following:
- Terminals: existing terminal at HSB, but there's no space to moor a ferry overnight, so this would be a 1-ferry route, with the ship based at Vancouver Island. Land acquisition & zoning would be needed of course at Vancouver Island.
- re Vancouver Island terminal, you'd need to consider connections to the existing Inland-Island-Highway. French Creek does not have an access road to the new highway (closest is Parksville or Qualicum Beach).
- sailing time would be long, likely 2 hours or a bit more, so that's more fuel.

.........anyone else feel free to add their 2-cents to this idea on why it would or wouldn't work.

[kylefossett]

mainlander101 said:

QTeen said:

Actually, Flugel Horn, I meant that the Mill Bay should go from the Northern Tip of Galiano Island to South Gabriola.

This would take awhile, as it must go by Valdes Island. I suggest running it as a three-way, via Valdes if this route comes up in the future

there is not much on valdes, and i don't think the people there would want ferry service. sometimes there are reasons relating more to the people on the islands as to why there is no ferry service on these islands. like maybe they don't want to be connected to the rest of the world

[Ferryman]

You have some good ideas there. The only thing about putting a terminal in the Parksville area is, it's like an other Tsawwassen scenerio, with the shallow water along the shore. So they would have to either dredge an area, or make a freeway connecting to a man made Island. But I don't think it would have to be a four lane freeway though. It could just be a simple two lane road, with room to expand, if there is demand.
Now the thing is with Horseshoe Bay, I don't really think we need anymore ferries going in and out of there, as its at the crowded point as it is in the summer. That is with the number of ferries that use the docks, and the amount of space in the holding lanes. So if you used a ferry that went to the Sunshine Coast, say to maybe, Sechelt, that could connect the Sunshine Coast to the Island. That way it leaves the Sunshine Coast residents with another way to the Island, instead of haveing to take two ferries(Saltery Bay Ferry to Comox Ferry, and Langdale Ferry to Nanaimo Ferry) to get to the Island, so it saves them money. But it's hard to judge if there would be enough demand to make a profit off of. So you would have to start off with with a Queen of Nanaimo or Tsawwassen sized Ferry, and run it with that one Ferry to see how popular the run gets. I say a ferry like that because, it would handle the rough seas in the Strait during the winter storms nicely, but it would have to be a double ended ferry so docking wouldn't be so much of a problem.
Now the Nanoose Bay area could work, if you picked the right spot, meaning there would actually have to have enough room on land to accomadate vehicle holding lanes. Now if I remember correctly, there is the shallow water problem again the further into the bay you go. Plus you might have to deal with the Fisherman, as they like to beach there boats there at Low tide, and dig for clams and whatnot. (Smells great on a summer day....). So there's quite a bit of issues to consider with a new terminal on the Island. You would almost be better off lesasing some land off of BCF at Duke Point and build that second berth there.

[Ferryman]

Valdes is a Native Reserve, and I don't even know if there's much of an infrastructure over there, or even if too many people live there. It's sort of like Kuper Island, just without a Ferry. But you need permission to access Kuper Island I believe, if you're not a First Nations.

[Doug]

I would assume they would relocate the Departure Bay Terminal to Parksville before they did to Duke Point...but if that ever happens, it won't be anytime soon. Nanoose Bay is an excellent idea, but why is the speed limit so low in the zone and why are ships in the Bay a rare occurrence? Well underneath that water you see there are US navy subs, sometimes testing torpedoes. The Bay is prohibited to all ships.

While Parksville is quite like Tsawwassen, I don't think it is quite as far out. Maybe a kilometer. But because BC Ferries is private now, and is not saving the ferry service on the West Coast, I don't think a causeway off Parksville is in the best interest of either the public or the company.

[Low Light Mike]

I was thinking that French Creek was better than Parksville, because maybe the water's deeper at French Creek.....so there wouldn't be a causeway.

I wasn't ever thinking that Parksville would be a good location, because of the beach....which is a "public treasure".

Hey, JCA-Christian, aka Queen-of-alberni-1976, do you know if French Creek area is deep enough for a ferry landing?