How easy would it be to do a terrorist attack?

[Low Light Mike]

Pardon me for the doomsday wondering:

How easy would it be to destroy a C-class or a Spirit-class, mid-crossing? Using Timothy McVeigh's OK-City method, you could fill a Moving-Truck with chemicals & explosive materials (McVeigh used fertilizer, and he destroyed a major concrete office building).

You could drive the full-truck onto the ferry, you would be on the main car deck, close to the water line. Set the explosives timer, to go off when the ship is in mid-crossing. You could team up with a partner, and do multiple trucks. The driver, if he/she didn't want to be a suicide-bomber, would wait on deck, on the opposite end of the ship, at the detonation time. The driver could have an inflatable PFD under his/her jacket, and be ready to jump off, once detonation happened.

There would be loss of life on the part of the ship nearest the detonation, and there would be a relatively quick sinking, perhaps, if there was a large enough hole near the water-line. If water rushed in on the main car deck, there would be a loss of stability, and she could capsize. The sister-ship on the same route would likely be first on-scene to pick up survivors.


For the record, this is just speculation, and wondering how safe these ferries really are, from such an attack. How would the ferry's security staff know what is inside a truck? just wondering. If Mr. Hahn is serious about security, then BCF personnel are no doubt considering and brainstorming all sorts of terrorist scenarios, to come up with ways of prevention. I guess that people in the security business have to "think like a terrorist" in order to stop a terrorist.

Just like 9/11, and London, BC Ferries provides opportunity for mutiple, simultaneous attacks. 3 major route, with 9 regular ships most days. Imagine having 6 vessels bombed, simultaneously?

Again, this is meant for serious discussion, re safety & security.....and I am not a psycho. I think such scenarios need to be considered, in order to ensure that we have adequate security.

what do you think?

[NMcKay]

Its possible. but i dont know the building of the ships. if they are like the K class. then they are almost impossible to sink if they are sealed up. the kulleet and klatawa have sealed watertight compartments, and the steel on the deck is thick enough to take a farley signifigant bomb. and even then. the bomb would only damage a few of water tight compartments, which would allow the other vessel to come in and rescue survivors.

[Quinsam]

Quite possible, but maybe they can have sniffer dogs and xray machines at the toll booths and then they can be sure the ferry crossings will be safe, to make sure of no bombs or chemicals of some type.
The recent ferry going wrongs are maybe due to Sabotage.

[NMcKay]

i doubt that someone can get down in the engine room un noticed, disconnect the Control Arm, and then run up to the passenger deck before anyone notices

[Balfour]

If anything, they need to inspect trucks closely for explosives, and any drivers who may be from the middle east (I'm not being racist. The most active terrorist groups are from the Middle East).

[hergfest]

WSF has explosive sniffing dogs at all their terminals now.

[Political Incorrectness]

yes that is because it is US based and in Canada there is not much security so then someone could easily use a truck and get explosives on board that is why they should get bomb sniffing dogs, and maybe at the toll plaza make it have a roof overhead so thenn you can scan it for bombs as well

[Koastal Karl]

Yeah I heard on this subject they want to inspect the baggage more closely that goes on the ferry! But I never thought of this before but this is because some people put baggage on the ferry and they arent even travelling on the ferries! For example, you want to send something to your friends or relatives on the mainland, your go to the terminal! Put you bags on the thing! You leave, you bag goes across, and is picked up by whoever your sending it to! I never thought of that before and that people actually would do that! That's what I heard from someone who heard David Hahn in the radio talking about it!

[Political Incorrectness]

WSF isn't "that" crazy if they want to do that then you might as well do a thorough inspection of every car

[Koastal Karl]

Yeah, WSF must be doing security seeing they are so slow and can never leave on time!! I watched the Elwha today and she left 15 mins behind and the employees were just standing there on the dock doing nothing! 1 car came on late, then they left! There past the departure time, they should of been gone! That car was late, shouldent of got on! I dont why all the American ferries are always late! The Coho 7:30pm departure from Victoria is always late!

[Doug]

Install metal detectors in all major terminals for baggage I say. As for cars...they might use bomb sniffers or if the technology is available, X-rays.

[BrianWilliams]

Funny --- I was thinking along Flugel's line today. I rode to DB on Oak Bay, and back on the Cow. Capacity loads, both ways.

As usual, I was in the Deck 2 dog pen. Looking at the assorted trucks, from big shiny reefers to beater landscapers' vans, I too remembered Oklahoma City.

If a fertilizer bomb can bring down a six-story building from the outside, I imagined the horror of a blast deep in a BC Ferry. The boat will sink in an inferno of shredded steel and blazing fuel.

I didn't plan to start a thread on this subject; it scares me that a nutjob may actually pick it up from us.

However, Flugel is right. It's a doomsday warning, and BCF had better do some hard thinking on the subject.

Imagine the two Spirits passing in Active Pass with full summer loads; and both explode ... as many deaths as Sep 11 could be the toll.

The aggravating factor in recent times are suicide bombers. Almost unstoppable.

[Doug]

I could imagine it happening to one or two ships in the middle of the Strait, where there isn't much to help you. I wonder how big of a bomb would be required to sink a ferry from the car deck?

[NMcKay]

probably alot. It would take about the size of the bomb in oklahoma city to take down the ferry, and still it wouldn't take it down fast. remember the USS Cole? it took a bomb similar to the oklahoma city bomb, and they were able to sail it back to america for refit.

[Scott]

Interesting discussion. I think a bomb the size of the USS Cole _inside_ a ferry would do substantially more damage than a bomb from the outside. Also, I don't think warships and ferries are constructed the same way. A semi-truck loaded with explosives on a ferry on a busy stormy night would be a disaster. I think something could be done to tighten security in regards to large trucks, but I doubt you can do much to screen all carry-on luggage or stop a suicide bomber. I don't think a ferry would be a primary target for a suicide bombing anyways. Skytrain or a hockey game or something of that sort would probably be more attractive to a psychopath.

Although I think security on BC Ferries is important, I can't help but think that any attack on Canada would be in Ottawa or Toronto rather than out here. At least anything by Islamic terrorists. I could be wrong, but I don't think BC Ferries is or will be a primary target unless terrorism becomes a lot more common and widespread than it is right now.

[cascade]

If they want to attack you they will - no matter how good your inspection are. These days the International Terrorist is a very clever person - with a skilled backup team.

The real question is what is there to attack - and why "hit" a Ferry - what statement are you trying to make and why ?

Canada is not a superpower - and the world knows that, plus it doesn't always follow what Bush and his people do or say. Canada did not back the last Gulf War. The UK did and press releases today show it had an affect on why we were hit in London.

London, New York, Paris, Rome & Tokay are the principle world cities. All of these cities have been hit at one time or another. Some by "local" home grown people / groups.

If anything BC - and the Ferries - had to watch out for "local" home grown groups with a Beef against the Government or ideas or even against BC Ferries - like they took away land from them or something like that - so they can make a statement. the RCMP have a good track record - so I think they can keep a good lid on things home grown.

[Scott]

An "expert" was on the radio today (I just heard a clip on the 6:00 news on CKNW) who mentioned BC Ferries as a prime target within Canada for any terrorism threat. I agree with Cascade that Canada, and even less so B.C., _probably_ (I hope) wouldn't be high on al-Qaeda's list of priorities, but it should be remembered that Canada has been threatened by them because of our involvement in Afghanistan. I just can't see how something bombed in B.C. would get as much attention as something done in Toronto... or even just south of the border in Seattle or Tacoma or Portland... just because it's the USA. I could be wrong. One time BC Ferries will need to be extra careful is around 2010... because then we _will_ be in the world spotlight and all the cameras will be already in town.

Anyways, back to the "expert" on the radio. He said a ferry was an ideal target because you'd have possibly a ship sinking, people drowning, putting people in fear of travelling.. etc. I was thinking about it a bit more today... even if a bomb on the car deck didn't destroy the ferry... just think of all the trucks and cars... and propane tanks.. that would catch fire. So you not only have the initial bomb, but a couple hundred mini-bombs following. It certainly would be a disaster.

How much would it cost to put a security guard and dog at each terminal just to walk up and down the lanes of traffic. Would that be enough? I'd hate to see the day when going on a ferry is like going through an airport. What a hassle that would be!

[Balfour]

I'd hate to see such a day as well. It's almost a privelege to go on one of the world's largest ferry fleets, and not have to go through any sort of security procedure before boarding.

[Koastal Karl]

We all wouldent want to see such as thing happen here in BC!

[Curtis]

Could you even imagine if there was a TNT filled Spirit class going between Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay and suddenly it caught fire and nobody did nothing about it it would be the Halifax Explosion all over again on the opposite side of the country

[I Miss BCTV]

cascade said:

If they want to attack you they will - no matter how good your inspection are. These days the International Terrorist is a very clever person - with a skilled backup team.

The real question is what is there to attack - and why "hit" a Ferry - what statement are you trying to make and why ?

Spain is not a superpower and look what happened to them.

[Mac Write]

Very easy to make world news with a ferry. Take the Oak Bay insidant. If someone had died it would have been CNN Headline news. Now with no security on older ferries (I walked right onto the bridge of the Nanny last week (with permission of course) without an escort. The SOBC on the other hand was a different matter (dam keypad). The point is, a terrorist just needs to take out the bridge crew while nearing the dock, floor the engines and crash a ferry hard into a dock killing a few people. This will get the attention of the world within minutes. With three or four group of terrorists, they could take out the bridge crew instantly and get the worlds attention (want to know how to blow up a plane with just a match? I can easily do it that's how bad airport security is).

[BrianWilliams]

" It's almost a privilege to go on one of the world's largest ferry fleets, and not have to go through any sort of security procedure before boarding. "

Strong Skiier said this, and he's exactly right.

As a de-compression from hard work weeks this year, I have been taking one of our dogs on ferry day trips one Saturday a month.

So easy. Ditch the car at HB, and take the next boat out. Bowen, Langdale, Nanaimo ... it doesn't matter. We enjoy the p*ssin' rain or bright sun en route, and there's always lotsa fun at our destination; then a nice ride home.

Bo (the dog) loves ferries, large or small. He pulls my arm off, racing to be first on board. BCF's dingy dog pens aren't nice, but we usually explore all of Decks 2 and 3 on the C boats, and Bo gets friendly attention from BCF crew when we meet 'em.

On these foot trips, it is so good to board a ferry without hassle. BCF ticket clerks, in these still-innocent days, sell me a single fare and buzz us thru the secret gates at HB and DB.

No dogs in the long, carpeted passenger ramps. Mutts and their companions board first and quickly, down where the diesels hum, and the smell of salt water is closest.

Open decks are always best, even in stinkin' weather (Q Of Capilano):

[NMcKay]

I enjoy my ferry rides. they realax me, and i still think that one of our boats could take a farly substantial bomb and survive. and if i had some balsa wood, id prove it.

[Koastal Karl]

Brian, that must suck having to sit in the dog pen on the ferries all the time! Ya dont get to see anything and enjoy the services on board! I guess if you enjoy riding down there with your pooches all the time then it's all good!