"Virtual" Active Pass

[nosepoint]

In today's Vancouver Sun & Times Colonist

New ferries ply virtual Active Pass

German shipbuilder perfects model on computer

Victoria Times Colonist

Saturday, February 12, 2005


VICTORIA - The next three vessels to be added to the BC Ferries fleet exist, for the moment, in a virtual world, plying the waters of an electronic Active Pass on computers at a German shipyard.

But the basic design has been completed, and when the first of the new ferries goes into service at the end of 2007, passengers can look forward to superb views in all directions. That's because the wheelhouse, including the bridge, will be on the first level above the top vehicle deck, below a level that will be devoted to passenger amenities.

And there's more sunshine on the very top.

"The upper deck will have the largest open space of any ship in the ... fleet," according to Carsten Ortloff, one of the naval architects working on the $325-million project at Flensburger Schiffbau Gesellschaft in Flensburg.

That's possible because of the sheer size of these new ferries. At 160 metres, they will be the largest double-ended ferries in the world, which means there will be plenty of room for people.

They will be able to hold 370 cars. Passenger capacity has been set at 1,500, although it can be expanded to 1,650 if needed. Ortloff says it will be easier to find a seat on the new ferries than on the five C-class vessels already in the fleet.

Travellers can also expect to see two play areas for children, kennels for pets on the upper vehicle deck, 101-centimetre television screens, retail outlets, restaurants and coffee bars or buffets. Ortloff says the design is flexible enough that more retail space can be added if there is demand.

Flexibility goes beyond the passenger amenities. The new ferries have been designed so they can be moved quickly between the major routes, something that has not been possible with previous ferry designs.

The new vessels will have an operating speed of 21 knots, which is faster than the Spirit-named ferries.

All the key design decisions have been made by Flensburger and approved by BC Ferries. Only details are left -- but there still needs to be a variety of tests, as well as thousands of computer simulations, designed to ensure the plans will be as close to perfect as possible before the steel starts arriving in the Flensburger yard.

The first of the new ferries, known as Super-C Class, will be put into service in late 2007. Two of the new ferries will be used on the Horseshoe Bay-Nanaimo route, with the third running between Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen.

C: Victoria Times Colonist

[Alex]

Why would they use to of the new Super-C's on HSB/DB, if they're supposed to be replacing the Esquimalt, Vancouver, and Saanich? Don't the Saanich and Vancouver usually run on SB/TSW run?

Also, if they put them on HSB/DB, what would they do with the Coq and the Cow?

[Dane]

Victory is mine!!!

I told you they'de be on Route 2

They look a lot better than the initial drawings, very different but a right direction for modern ferries. Nothing overly flashy. I hope the top (third) passenger deck is the buffet and lounge (one for each end)

[Balfour]

Sweet! I can't wait to go on them! I have a great idea for a name for one: Queen of the North Shore

[NMcKay]

me and my dad had a huge talk today about them. and now...well..i dont know how good they are really gonna be

[nosepoint]

stupid question...Are these new Super-C Class ships supposed to be double-enders, like the Oak Bay, Surrey etc?

[Balfour]

Yes. I think so anyways

[Doug]

It would work, but I still think Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay is in need of larger ships. Who also agrees that it looks better with two sister ships on the same route? I don't know, what if a "C" Class ferry runs aground again? It seems like a better idea to use two Super "C" Class ferries on Tsawwassen-SB but two on HB-DB is a good idea. They should just build four of these ships.

[Balfour]

It sounds like a better idea, but there's nothing we can do about it now.

[Doug]

Maybe the newspaper doesn't have a clue???

[Dane]

DougUbell said:

Maybe the newspaper doesn't have a clue???

That could be true too. Route 2 is about as close to capacity vs. demand as Route 1, just it's with 3 ships rather than 4 (and arguable the capacity of those 3 is roughly the same as the 2 Spirits plus a smidge).

The capacity of the Super C, however is soemthing to ponder. I believe, as I have posted before that what BCF is announcing at 370 vehicles is in fact a 'realisit capacity' vs. the 365 for the current Cs. You will never see 365 vehicles on one of them. At 20 meters longer than a C, and a mere 6.5 less than a Spirit I'm sure space will be more than ample on these new ships.

I have the upmost hopes that these ships will be excellent quality and a pleasure to travel on. The new 'direction' of BCF styling and customer service, along with previous work of the German shipyard is excellent so I'm positive about this. (Minus the fact they clearly should have been built in BC)

[NMcKay]

okay. even thought TSW - SB is nearing capacity, its not nearing cpacity during those Off times in the winter months, BC Ferries has been plauged with small things like that. Let me give you an example

the cost of the 3 ferries is 523 Million

Divided by 3 = 174.3 or approx 175 Million

4.1 Million people go to Nanaimo @ 10 a pop thats

41 Million dollars.

and every year BCF has to pay 17.5 Million Each in Intrest alone (for 25 Years)

35Million for DPB -> HSB. and thats intrest alone. when you factor in the 174/25 you get an addition 7 million which is 42 Million, which means the ships passengers will pay for the Debt alone, and that isn't including Fuel, Crew, Maintinence, Food, Etc etc. I dont see how it could be viable. UNLESS they raise Fairs. the ships wont pay for themselves.

[Dane]

Trucks, cars, busses, food, crap from the gift shop.

The ferries, by retirment will probably pay for themselves, but marginally. You are right though, no matter what BCF does it's a money loosing business unless fairs are grossly out of proportion to what they should be.

[NMcKay]

What!?!?!?!? Grossly out of porportions? BCferries Fare is 35 Dollar an hour Approx, Whereas NFL Bay charges 73 Dollars per hour. and yet. NFL bays makes money yet BCF doesn;t .were just used to the artifically low fares because of subsidies (quotes based on one Under 20' car and 4 x 13 - 40 passengers)

[Dane]

BCF is mandated as part of our highway system. If you like cutting people off from tarnsportation you have full right to that opinion but I strongly, very very strongly disagree. WSF is a lot cheaper per minute if you wanna sit down and do the math, but BCF offers a much better service IMHO.

[NMcKay]

BC May offer a better serivec, but what happens when the BC and Canadian TaxPayer has to bail them out because inflation goes up, and yet BCF has the government saying they cant. This is BS because the people who use it arn't paying for the service they are using.

[Dane]

All transportation costs huge amount of money. You pay squat for the roads despite the high taxes; users should, under your ideology pay a lot more for highways DIRECTLY than they currently do.

Bridges should also be tolled, they are bailed out from day one. There is no revenue generation (at least in a primary sense) from a bridge but it's still critical to transit.

We've seen in the 1950s why private service for PUBLIC transport sucks, and BCF has done a solid job at a reasonable cost.

[NMcKay]

yeah, they arn't playing right. 1) they sold the fast cats because they wanted to get rid of a PR nightmare 2) they are building ships that they dont really need. if they maintained thier vessels for a 45 or 55 year life span, the vessels would be in better shape, and BCf would be able to build up a little capital before they buy new ships.

[Dane]

The Fast Cats is entirely political. I will not defend a failure. It has nothing to do with the costs of BCF although did effect it's debt imensly (despite the fact that it should have gone under Provincial "Misc." costs as far as I am concerned.

The V Class will be retired after 45 year life spans. Steel is steel is steel. They lead a long good life but between improvements in safety, the fact that all things come to an end, and the demand for higher capacity and better ammenities (to make money to cover service costs) new ships are demanded to meet growing needs.

BCF's capital will always suck. If you want to see a crown corporation that was in even worse shape look into BC Rail.

[NMcKay]

IMHO Bc Rail should have not been sold. it was making money as far as im concerned. My Friend works @ CP Rail, and the Routes that they took over are making SO SO SO much money and sense right now. its another Liberal Folly.

[Dane]

I worked for BC Rail..... I was a Host on the train formerly known as the Royal Hudson.

[NMcKay]

I was on that once, it was a beatiful ride, just under advertised. it could have made money.

[Dane]

It did until 1999.... thats when we lost the Royal Hudson and had to stop advertising. Then since they stopped they never got the budget back. In 2002 the decision was made to scrap all services, and they went public with it in 2003.

[NMcKay]

yeah? never knew that.

[Ferryman]

Royal Hudson is coming back though. She has been sitting up here in Squamish at the Train Museum since she broke down as I presume. They had her set up for tours and even connected to the old antique cars that were luxurious back in the day. But now only the cars are sitting there and the Royal Hudson is currently sitting in a shop in the Museum getting her boiler fixed so they can bring her back to service from Vancouver to Whistler. Should be ready in the next year or so. I remember reading that last summer in the local paper here