2006 year-end checkup on BCFS

[Low Light Mike]

Here's the comprehensive year-end checkup survey re what you are most concerned with re BC Ferries, heading into 2007.

(thanks Mr. Cascade for the idea for this).

Maybe this is just an opportunity for people to choose their pet-topic of interest...but the results should be interesting.

[Political Incorrectness]

Here is my biggest concern, who is behind the actions of leaving a great past behind? Why have they stood behind the curtain known as BCFS?

I am curious to know because you can't just blame the big guy, but someone under him. I am not sure who but I would like that person to explain what the hell they have been doing to our system. The system was in need of fixing but the problem has turned to it is a profit maker status, not a public transportation system which I believe is quite irrational for minor routes such as the gulf island routes. Also, they want to get rid of all non money making routes. Putting this in the ACT is just pure evidence that someone is in this for greed and not carring about an already world class marine transportation system now being made worse by lowering the standard on captains.

Overall, I am not satisfied with BCFS, there will be problems down the road and the future is not looking pretty at this point of view. Something must be done and soon.

[Scott]

I don't like the way the prices are going up. It's becoming less and less affordable to travel on the ferries, which I believe are a public maritime highway.

That said, I came to the Island with a car and my wife and child and it only cost 30 bucks plus tax. That is the good side of what the "private" company has done. But when we drive to Quadra later today, it's probably going to cost the same as it did to come to the Island.

[Low Light Mike]

I voted for the Queen of the North investigation & truth-telling.

I think this is a good litmus-test for the ethics and operations of the company, ie how they will release & respond to the findings of the investigation reports.

[Dane]

Breakdown epidemic? People are just more aware due to BC Ferries' website. Look at historial statistics available at most major or University libraries, BCFS is actually doing better than many previous years of BC Ferries Corp.

[Low Light Mike]

dane said:

Breakdown epidemic? People are just more aware due to BC Ferries' website. Look at historial statistics available at most major or University libraries, BCFS is actually doing better than many previous years of BC Ferries Corp.

So I surmise that this is not your major-concern for 2007?

(I tried to come up with all sorts of possible 2007-concerns scenarios, and not all of them may be legitimate situations or historical problems.....but people might be worried/concerned about them)

[Dane]

BCFS's lack of use for local shipyards for me...

[Doug]

ferrymaniac101 said:

Here is my biggest concern, who is behind the actions of leaving a great past behind? Why have they stood behind the curtain known as BCFS?

I am curious to know because you can't just blame the big guy, but someone under him. I am not sure who but I would like that person to explain what the hell they have been doing to our system. The system was in need of fixing but the problem has turned to it is a profit maker status, not a public transportation system which I believe is quite irrational for minor routes such as the gulf island routes. Also, they want to get rid of all non money making routes. Putting this in the ACT is just pure evidence that someone is in this for greed and not carring about an already world class marine transportation system now being made worse by lowering the standard on captains.

Overall, I am not satisfied with BCFS, there will be problems down the road and the future is not looking pretty at this point of view. Something must be done and soon.

Actually, BC Ferries made it very clear that it DOES NOT want to contract out all of its non-profit routes. I believe the only one it actually wants to privatize is the Mill Bay route; but who's to contradict that? The route serves very little purpose and is not on the essential services list.

It is in the contract that BC Ferries must put at least six routes in the auction each quarter (?)...hence they have no choice. However, they have made it clear that they are bidding on their own routes.

[Political Incorrectness]

Really? Then why are they required to auction off six routes each quarter? That completely contradicts your point. That does not make it very clear and makes BCFS sound more deceptive.

[Doug]

Because it is in the contract....

The government requires them to contract out routes.

[Political Incorrectness]

Still does not make sense though, just cause it is in the contract, does not mean they don't want to get rid of routes. When the ACT was written, it was a sole intention is what I am guessing based off that they put it in a contract.

If the government put that in the contract,

Why do so?
What is the purpose?
Does it waste more money?

If BCFS put it in the contract, no further questions.

[Dane]

ferrymaniac101 said:

If BCFS put it in the contract, no further questions.

They didn't though, that's his whole point.

[Low Light Mike]

re the Contract issue that Political Incorrectness is discussing:

The contract or Act requires that BCFS consider alternate providers for certain routes.

The purpose of this is to ensure that there is "competition" for the service-provider, as all good right-wingers believe that "competition" is a force that keeps consumer prices low and service qualities high.

So BCFS does it's required work each year to request "expressions of interest" of companies who wish to be alternate providers.

Re "Who" put this into the contract: remember, that the Gov't and the BCFS Company were essentially 1-and-the-same at the start of this new-deal, and so it's irrelevant "who" requested this...as the whole agreement is consentual.

Afterall, the shareholder of BCFS is the Government....so both interests were served, because they were essential the same stakeholder in this contract.

Does that clear anything up, or did I make it worse?

[Political Incorrectness]

I believe you gave me one more question from the top three up there.
Why do they not allow for competition anyways since BCFS terminals can only have BCFS vessels in them?

[Low Light Mike]

ferrymaniac101 said:

I believe you gave me one more question from the top three up there.
Why do they not allow for competition anyways since BCFS terminals can only have BCFS vessels in them?

I'm not sure what you mean from both these sentences.

[Deleted]

Great poll!

On the surface, I like the way the ferries are running since BCF ceased being a crown corporation. I realize I can only comment on Route 3, but I think our service has improved since 2003. BCFS is now ANTICIPATING service issues instead of simply apologizing for delays AFTER they happen. I like their website, the web cams and the ETAs and the vessel tracking. They are making an effort to keep the public happy on board the ships.

I still however, have a vague suspicion, that I'm being bought off with frills. I feel like I have no idea what's really going on with BCFS simply because I don't think they are forthcoming and honest nor do they have reason to be. The government insists they are not involved even though they still subsidize them with wads of money. I don't like the lack of accountability.

Are there enough checks and double-checks in place to prevent another disaster? Ever so often when I board The Surrey I glance at the main car deck where the decking was replaced over her No. 2 engine. Before her MLU I could still see bits of soot here and there. I don't think about it all the time, but sometimes...

I'm looking forward to reading the findings of the Queen of the North investigation.

[Curtis]

It is true everything in the BCFS syatem is better then it was five years ago. Aside from the sky-rocketed prices, fuel surcharges, and basically prices in general. The system is looking better then it was in the last 10 years. Retirement of the oldest ships in the fleet is finally happening, The Northern Adventure is an example of how fast we can react to a vessel that has sunk, the sinking of the Queen of the North that was pretty much a wake-up call that safety could be worse on other Ferries so probably that will improve, and modernizing the fleet has gone a long way since the Queen of Coquitlam's MLU in 2003. The system is better, just the price is too high. Probably my only concern would be the ASP if the PR Routes were taken over by someone else that could be the worst day of my life. However from what I think it ain't gonna happen.

[Neil]

cascade said:

I have high lighted over the years about the problem of the terminals and the way that BCFS load there vessels - and of course this has now been pointed out again - as a major block for any serious competition been formed on the routes.

What is the 'problem' with the terminals that you've been pointing out?

Maybe it needs to be stated again that BC Ferries is under no obligation to share their terminals with anyone. Even if they were, it would be ridiculous for them to go to the expense of designing facilities that could accept the hypothetical vessels of an as yet non-existant competitor.

[Political Incorrectness]

Exactly my point when I was talking about the terminals when it comes to sharing. Second of all, the only competition you would see would be on the major routes. That will not happen for another 10 years so Mr. Gordo essentially screwed the system over. There is no competition whatsoever. What is the problem of subsidizing the system though?

[Political Incorrectness]

The second problem is - with the 5 main terminals - as been debated many times on this forum - the double loading system is very unique to BC Ferries - no where else - are there Ferry operators who load this way - hence there current vessels would not be able to use the 5 main terminals.

cascade, we have tried to tell you many times THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM First off, the operator who would compete against BCFS would have to be dumb enough to spend money on a new system. Why not use the old system that works and more economical? Second off, no where else with the double loading system? You have not looked at dover, they have double loading ramps, Calais has double loading ramps. Please prove me wrong on that you just want to debate a false claim is my point of view. You are basing some of this also off assumption that a new operator will use a different style of loading. If they get new vessels, they can make them able to be accomadated with the current loading ramps.

A problem? If you know how to do it to not waste money no.

[Political Incorrectness]

www.calais-port.com/Photos/photos/photopresse/calaisHIRES11.jpg
It is also a gamble to build your own structure of loading since berthing fixtures cost so much.

[Neil]

cascade: I really have no idea what point you're making. Our terminals aren't the same as Europe's. So?

[Political Incorrectness]

cascade, you still have not elaborated very well to us who do not care to read the "ACT". Please "explain" your point. Does turnover have anything to do with unloading/loading? European vessels with some of them carry the same amount of cars, yet take hours to turn around. Each ferry system has its own needs and this is again your promotion of a European style competitor to BCFS. Why does unloading and loading have to matter when it has been done in 30 minutes yet europe's system takes an hour? Please explain why slower is better?

[Deleted]

A nice healthy dose of competition would be VERY nice! I would certainly like to see BCFS bend over backwards to get customers. It might actually bring meaning to their infamous statement, "Thank You for sailing with BC Ferries. We look forward to seeing you again soon."

The logistics of such an idea however put it in the realm of fantasy.

We had a passenger ferry service that someone started up here from Gibsons to Vancouver for the commuters. It had a good run for a couple of years but they ran into problems. I seem to remember there was some trouble with docking in Vancouver. For me, they were too costly. Fully private enterprises usually cost more.

[Neil]

cascade said:

I talked about competitions and terminals as an off subject. We have been over this subject many times on a number of different threads
In my view competitions is needed - but there are problems with this view - mainly the terminals, on the 5 main routes.
If you look at figures from around the Ferry world - most if not all companies would love to pitch up against BCFS - given the 20m users and 8m cars/ vehicles. They would like a % of that turnover - but at what cost?
It is a closed shop in one way - but also open in other ways - namely the ACT...

You're right- we've done this subject. The terminals aren't going to change. We've not heard one smidgen of evidence that anyone else is seriously considering getting into the major ferry market here. How about Washington State? They carry more traffic than we do- no competitors wanting in there, either. None anywhere on this continent. Seaspan knows this market, they have three vessels on hand, and apparently they've decided not to have a go.

My hope for 2007 for our ferry system is that we focus on forcing BC Ferries to be the best system it can possibly be, as a quasi-public entity. That we resolve the questions surrounding the 'North sinking, and hold management to account on expenses, and on service to islands and communities that would die without it. We've got the public assets and a skilled workforce already in place; working with that to make things better seems a lot more productive than chasing the chimerical goal of a 'competitive' market for public marine transit.