M.V.'s Nimpkish and Mill Bay

[Curtis]

These are ideas for what to do with the smallet ferries in the fleet M.V. Nimpkish, And M.V. Mill Bay cast your votes
for what you want done with these ferries.
(acting like T.V. anouncer lol)

[Curtis]

Personely i want them to keep both

[Koastal Karl]

How about sell the Mill Bay and keep Nimpkish and move her to the Mill Bay run as she was built in 1976 so she should still have more life left in her if BC Ferries would take better care of their ships. Same car capacity, but a newer ship than the Mill Bay. I dont know where she is now, is the Nimpkish even sailable now?? If not fix her up and make her so she still has more life left in her. Not that I want BC Ferries to sell any of their ships but what would they do with the smaller ones???

[Doug]

I have never seen the Nimpkish, but she is bound for retirement in the near future. The Mill Bay, pfft, get rid of her! She makes no money. Out with the old and in with the new. ;D

[Fenklebaum]

In regards to DougUbell's FURTHER scathing comments regarding the M.V. Mill Bay, I will repeat the points I made in another thread. I would also very much be interested in hearing your views on what I say here, Mr. DougUbell...

While it may very well be true that the Mill Bay is old, and that the run does not turn a profit, are there then no reasons to keep that vessel running?

I would argue that the oldest ships in the fleet should be the ones that are the most aggressively preserved. BC Ferries already made the abominable decision to sell the Queen of Sidney; the first ferry in the fleet, without any thought to the historical importance that that ship has. Likewise has the ex-corporation given up such signifigant vessels as the Sechelt Queen, the Pender Queen, the Vesuvius and Saltspring Queens, and the Langdale Queen, a vessel built in 1903! Granted, the ships were old. However, it must also be granted that these ships were of ENORMOUS historical value, each and every one of them. The Sechelt and Langdale Queens both came from Peabody's 'Black Ball Line' - the company, if you will be so pleased as to recall, that *founded* the Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay route, as well as the Langdale and Earls Cove routes. The Pender Queen started her days as the "Motor Princess", and was the Canadian Pacific's *first* car carrying ferry.

But you may well be right. Such old ships may very well not have a place in such a modern fleet. When it comes right down to a matter of 'technical superiority', then yes, more modern ships like the Spirits and the C-Class ferries prevail. Although on that note also I would like to raise a note of contention; how often do you hear that the Mill Bay has broken down? Eh? Just because it's old doesn't mean that it isn't reliable.

Then of course comes the argument that the more modern vessels are infinitely more aesthetically pleasing. That too will I contest. It is my opinion, as it is the opinion of many a mariner on this coast that the older ships on the coast are infinitely more handsome than their more modern counterparts. Nowadays, ferries are built to be big, to hold cars, and to hold people. They're nothing more than floating barns. And while the older ferries were designed for the same purpose, they were built to be SHIPS. Their lines elegant, their charecters unique.

I have no doubt that the Mill Bay will be retired. This is an inevitability. But before you jump to take the torch to an old ship, think of the ramifications of your actions. BC Ferries didn't, and as a result, a trove of historical ships have been lost to us forever.

[Doug]

Well, the Mill Bay is not much of a ship really, more of a...boat? Jesus, she has less horsepower than some normal cars nowadays. Although I don't agree on cruise ships because of their size, they are still defined as a ship. How do you define the word "ship?"

ship n. A large vessel for deep-water
travel or transport.

From Webster's Dictionary

BC Ferries (the new BC Ferries) refurbished the Queen of Coquitlam "to reflect the natural beauties of the West Coast." Believe me, if you were brought onto it (even the new Super "C" Class vessels of the future) while sleeping and didn't know you were going on, you would still know your on a ship. So don't start judging the new BC Ferries and their ships for "not building ships."

[Koastal Karl]

Actually that is true, I never really hear alot about the Mill Bay breaking down. She is a different little ship though. Well I would consider all ferries, ships. Would you consider the Harbourlynx a ship or a boat???

Is there any difference between a vessel and a ship??? or is that just another name for a ship or boat?

I have only been on the Mill Bay once and there was no passenger lounge except a little one down below with no port holes or anything, is there even a washroom on the Mill Bay?? But she is an interesting little ship. She's been on the run all her life and she is still going.

[NMcKay]

hey hey! dont bring the Harbourlynx into this. She is a ship, lets see you take the nimpkish into deep water. lol. Like off the coast. Nuff of this. They are all ships, i know the smaller boats may not have alot of horsepower (klitsa = 750HP) but they are ships, even if thier design more closely resembles a barge with engines. i think we should call them "Ferries", cause the definition of ferries is more accurate, than the definition of ship.

[Fenklebaum]

With regards to DougUbell's latest comment on the Mill Bay:

How much horsepower do you think she needs? Should she have the same power plant as a C class ferry?

With regards to DougUbell's comments on the definition of ship:

Perhaps you're correct. Perhaps the Mill Bay isn't a ship. Perhaps it's a boat. Then again, I would contest that the Saanich Inlet is, while not the deepest trench in the Pacific Ocean, fairly deep. But I will concede that she might not be a ship. She doesn't need to be. A boat is a ship, and a ship is a boat. Both should have grace.

With regards to DougUbell's comments on my distaste for the more modern ferries:

I have yet to ascertain whether or not the new/i] BC Ferry Services is a bunch of ignorant peones or not. I was not referring to BC Ferry Services, I was rather referring to the organization's shipbuilding trends of the past twenty years. And while I prefer the elegance and charm of a more older vessel, this does not mean that I do not appreciate the more modern vessel's amenities and decor. Indeed, I would like to point out that I was recently aboard the Queen of Coquitlam, and was stunned by how well they had refitted her. It was a pleasure to be aboard. But it wasn't like being aboard a true boat, ship, whatever. It was more like being aboard a cruise ship. This is just my opinion, however.

With regards to Harbourlynx Kid's comments regarding the M.V. Nimpkish's seaworthiness:

I would contest that the Nimpkish is an excellent sea boat. She posesses graceful lines, and a seagoing hull. When the Ministry of Highways commissioned the designs for MV Albert J. Savoie (then MV "Garibaldi") , MV Nicola (then MV "Quadra Queen") and MV Nimpkish, they explicitly requested that the ferries be capable of handling very rough seas. If one notices the hull, it's designed for seas, heavy or otherwise, hence the raised bow.
When the ministry required larger vessels, they commissioned the building of MV Tachek (then MV Texada Queen), and MV Quadra Queen II. Though larger, they too are designed for rough seas. MV Tenaka (originally MV Comox Queen) was built for the Comox-Powell River run. Anyone who has been on those waters in winter knows that it gets rough out there. Anyone who has been
on the water in Seymour Narrows knows that not only can the weather get rough, but that the currents are BIZARRE.

In fact, the only vessels built by the Ministry that wouldn't qualify as sea-going vessels would be the K and Q class ships (Kahloke, Klitsa, Kulleet, Klatawa, Kwuna, Quinitsa, Quinsam)

[NMcKay]

yeah well, i got the privledge to be on the MV Kulleet when she went in to Allied Shipbuilders for her 4 year check up 2 years ago, and well, we took the North arm, and the sea was acting up, and those ships, when they are in rough seas, although they dont take it over the bow (the ship almost became a sub we had to betten downt he hatches and make sure she was water tight) . the ships rattles, and the windows shake, but never during that time does the ship risk sinking, theres no way she could sink

[NMcKay]

the only reason the K class wouldn't be considered Sea Worthy, is cause the ships were designed to be utilitarian. they have flat bows. which don cut water very well

[Dane]

Scrap the Mill Bay.

Preserving ships in a Transportation system is stupid. Straight up, just think about it from an economics point of view.

[NMcKay]

he does have a point. not all things can be kept, just cause they have a history.

[kylefossett]

keep the mill bay that is a nice ride and also a nice alternative to the malahat if there is an accident or bad weather. prime example is four years ago when the propqane truck accident happened, they were using the mill bay run and running a shuttle between fulford and vesuvius.

[Doug]

As population grows (whether any of us like it or not), larger ships are needed. If we were currently in the '60s, and there was someone from the early 1900's here, they'd probably think the same thing from building the "V" Class vessels (as originally built, of course). Larger vessels are needed, now. Vessels from the '50s won't do anymore. Their old, they are only an expenditure, Mill Bay-Brentwood Bay is an OPTION and the vessel has never had any major restorations completed. There is no point in keeping a small, unnoticed car ferry for its history that only people (not all of us) like us will remember. And, the vessel only operated on an optional route that not many people used. Although scrapping of the Mill Bay is premature, she should be sold as she is no longer needed/turns a profit.

[Fenklebaum]

I AGREEE>>>>>SCRAP DA MILL BAY!!!!!!!!

[NMcKay]

maybe not scrap, but im sure there is another route that is worthy of what the mill bay has to offer

[the REAL Fenklebaum]

The 'gentleman' ( I use that term very reticently) using the name Fenklebaum while simultaneously proposing that the Mill Bay should be scrapped is not the same person as I. To whoever did that: I pity you for not being able to articulate your arguements properly, and for not being able to engage in debate like an intelligent person, instead lowering yourself to the intellectual level of a five-year old. You sir, or madam, whichever you may be, offend and disgust me.

Now then, on the subject at hand...

From a purely economic perspective, yes, selling the Mill Bay would be the easiest way to go. If you'll be so good as to notice, not once have I said that the route should not be privatized. I have been talking purely on the subject of scrapping the MV Mill Bay, a vessel which I believe should be preserved.

I would also like to point out that the termination of the Saanich Inlet crossing would be a detriment to the economy of Brentwood Bay as a whole.

[Fenklebaum]

Kylefosset is right on the money with regards to preserving the route. There IS a practical reason for it.

[NMcKay]

maybe the person who was doing the posting under frankenbaum, was also doing the iligitimate posts under harbourlynx kid too..

[Curtis]

Hmmm thats posible

[nimpkish and mill bay]

Poll, If they should replace the Mill bay, I think that they should get a ferry like Quinsam or Quinitsa, maybe even a new version of the M.V Mill Bay, quinsam is good, although it once had a leak in the hull, but it has good reliabilty, unknown about the quinitsa but I think the are both good (Quinitsa and Quinsam, nimpkish isn't bad either from what I've heard.

Bye
Harry

[Harry]

Poll, If they should replace the Mill bay, I think that they should get a ferry like Quinsam or Quinitsa, maybe even a new version of the M.V Mill Bay, quinsam is good, although it once had a leak in the hull, but it has good reliabilty, unknown about the quinitsa but I think the are both good (Quinitsa and Quinsam, nimpkish isn't bad either from what I've heard.

Bye
Harry

[Dane]

Mill Bay will be gone next time she's up for major work, which is like 8 years I think. I guarantee it.

The route is useless, despite being relief valve for the highway. It costs far too much to operate, and the Mill Bay cannoit be redeployed to other routes as we've previously discussed.

[Balfour]

That's true. Her horsepower is only 155. That's what usually powers a Ford Taurus with the basic Pushrod V-6. It's fine for a small sedan but un-acceptable for a ferry.