commuter pass

[future bcer]

can someone tell me what the price is of a monthly pass with Harbourlynx?
has anyone got experience with this pass? what are advantages and disadvantages?
all tips are welcome!

future bc'er

[Dane]

I don't know the cost but the advantage would definatly be the speed and convenience of their service.

They will be expanding their service at some point in the sudo-near future (their was a tender announced in the local paper for a new vessel) but I'm not sure if it will be the same route. I'd hope so, if they could double their frequency I'd take it twice as often.

[Political Incorrectness]

HL Teen could probably answer that.

[NMcKay]

I will right now.

Its 495 For 28 Days

[NMcKay]

i thought i should elaborate. you purchase it, and then 28 days later it expries. or no. depends on what the boss does come january. It does have the advantage of being discounted from 1284$ and it takes you right down town. it gives you 1 return trip per day for 5 days a week. which is a HUGE discount.

[Quinsam]

$495? or $4.95?

[NMcKay]

495.00$

[Alex]

welwyn said:

$495? or $4.95?

Yes, its $4.95 for a 28 day pass on the Harbourlynx, for a total savings of $1279 or the month. Come on man, think!

[future bcer]

I liked the $4.95 though - cheaper than a one way ticket.
Thanks for the information!

[NMcKay]

No Problem.

[cascade]

In London we have a Thur ticket per day - so I can purchase a daily ticket for £5.20 - which allows me to travel all day on British Rail, Buses, and Tube. All of this within the "Thames Valley" or M25 ring road.
Given that 7m plus people live within this zone, and another 3M travel in and out each day - it is a very good value.

Part of this transport network also covers the Thames River and some times taking the river bus is a great way to travel - mostly in the summer months.
But part of the key here is that - apart from the Tube - all the other methods - rail - buses - river taxi ect... these are all private companies. I therefore wonder how they get there cut of the trip that I take?

Could something like this work in BC? Ferry - Bus - river taxi ect... (even Harbourlynx)

[Dane]

The cost of that pass, in Canadian dollars is roughly (very roughly) $1 cheaper than buying a transfer in Victoria, Vancouver, and foot passenger ticket on Route 1. But a pass could be very convenient for tourists, maybe with a little map on it too. My biggest beef with Vancouver, and Victoria's transit system is if you don't have a detailed intricit knowledge of the system you're screwed to get anywhere.

[Dane]

I take that back, it's $4 cheaper. That comes in under $12 w/ the current exch. rate.

[cascade]

My daily Travel card price in CAN$ is 10.66 - but look at the number of different modes I can travel on and of course the distance. Yes we do have the volume of people - 7M plus the 3M each day and added into that is the tourist which is around 1.5M per day average.

Therefore why can't say the major towns / cities get together and do something like this.

For debate - why not twin Victoria with Vancouver - transit - via BCFS and offer a day travel card - for 24 hours. Would people / locals and the tourist use it?

[Dane]

cascade said:

For debate - why not twin Victoria with Vancouver - transit - via BCFS and offer a day travel card - for 24 hours. Would people / locals and the tourist use it?

They did, for a very long time. It was called (and is still called) BC Transit. Every system in BC except for the Greater Vancouver Regional District is inclusive.

I'm not entirely sure I follow you on having all the different service options. An adult fare in Victoria, in Vancouver and on BC Ferries gets you ferry service, SeaBus, Conventional Bus, Community Shuttle, HandyDart, SkyTrain, WCE (add on fare)... In fact there's not really anything you can't get on.

Would a tourist use it? Maybe, most traffic to the island is carried via private operators, a market public transit shouldn't and is designed to compete with.

[Retrovision]

cascade said:

My daily Travel card price in CAN$ is 10.66 - but look at the number of different modes I can travel on and of course the distance. Yes we do have the volume of people - 7M plus the 3M each day and added into that is the tourist which is around 1.5M per day average.

Therefore why can't say the major towns / cities get together and do something like this.

For debate - why not twin Victoria with Vancouver - transit - via BCFS and offer a day travel card - for 24 hours. Would people / locals and the tourist use it?

As mentioned by Dane, BC Transit is the public transit provider for all communities in BC, except for the GVRD (Greater Vancouver Regional District) where the GVTA (Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority), more comonly know as Translink, runs the transit system.

Although long winded, I thought it appropriate to clarify, for those not from the area, the mandate of "BC Transit" by cutting and pasting their website's 'general information' page
(found at: www.bctransit.com/corporate/?p=1.txt or the homepage at: www.bctransit.com/ ):



"BC Transit's Mission & Mandate
BC transit is the provincial crown agency charged with coordinating the delivery of public transportation throughout British Columbia (outside the Greater Vancouver Regional District).

The corporation's mandate, as set out in the BC Transit Act, is:

to plan, acquire, construct or cause to be constructed public passenger transportation systems and rail systems that support regional growth strategies, official community plans, and the economic development of transit service areas.

With responsibility for public transportation in the Lower Mainland transferred to the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority, BC Transit's Victoria and Municipal Systems Division has assumed responsibility as head office for the crown corporation.

In addition to managing and operating the Victoria Regional Transit System, BC Transit plans, funds, manages, markets, and contracts for more than 50 transit systems in British Columbia.

Transit Types
The three types of transit service offered are: conventional, paratransit and custom.

The Conventional transit model is structured. Buses operate on fixed routes and fixed schedules. Custom transit — also called door-to-door transit — is demand-responsive. This service is for people who are unable to access the conventional transit system because of a disability. Paratransit carries conventional and custom transit passengers in small towns and rural areas."





And while I'm at it, I'll do the same for Translink. It should be noted that Translink only came to being in 1999 after the management-heavy BC Transit passed the reigns over to the newly formed GVTA. Also, a few years ago, Translink won a court case with the union (currently CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) for the majority: bus drivers) allowing limited contracting out; this was accomplished primarily by running the different operational facets (such as CMBC (Coast Mountain Bus Company) for the buses and Seabus, BC Rapid Transit Company for SkyTrain, etc.) as operating subsidiaries of Translink.

A useful, brief look at this structure can be found here:

translink.bc.ca/Operating_Companies/default.asp

And here's a more longwinded account of Translink's mandate, etc.:

"In 1997, the Greater Vancouver Regional District (GVRD) and the
provincial government began to negotiate the transfer of responsibility for transit and other regional transportation services from the Province to the GVRD.

The overall objective for the reorganized transportation system was to promote the development and implementation of transportation plans that would meet the objectives of the Province and the GVRD.

The result of these negotiations was the creation of a new agency, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink) in April 1999.

The Provincial legislation that created TransLink, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority Act (GVTA Act) prescribes TransLink's governance structure.

The GVTA Act stipulates that the board is to be comprised of 15 members, 12 of which are appointed by the GVRD and three appointed by the Province. In December 2000, the three provincially appointed directors requested that their appointments be rescinded, citing conflicts between their role as a TransLink board member and as an MLA.

The province has declined to appoint members since that timeand the Board of Directors is currently comprised of the 12 GVRD appointed representatives."

Although convoluted, I hope this answers a few questions.

[Alex]

cascade said:

For debate - why not twin Victoria with Vancouver - transit - via BCFS and offer a day travel card - for 24 hours. Would people / locals and the tourist use it?

Probably not. You could probably count on one hand the number of people who commute daily from the island to the mainland, or vise versa. Therefore, it wouldn't be worth the time or effort to institute such a pass. The only place it would make sense, would be on the Harbourlynx. From personal experience with commuting, an hour and a half is pretty much the max that people are willing to put up with (one way, not round trip), from home to work. This puts route 1 and 2 out for commuting, since neither side is near any major commercial area (except Departure Bay).

As for tourists, it hardly seems worth it. The most they would save is a few dollars, yet it would cost an awful lot to negotiate the fares and share of profit from all the companies involved. Its simply easier for people to buy separate tickets. Also, are there that many tourists making day trips to Victoria from Vancouver, or vise versa?

[Dane]

Your transfer would expire, anyways

[Retrovision]

alex said:

cascade said:

For debate - why not twin Victoria with Vancouver - transit - via BCFS and offer a day travel card - for 24 hours. Would people / locals and the tourist use it?

Probably not. You could probably count on one hand the number of people who commute daily from the island to the mainland, or vise versa. Therefore, it wouldn't be worth the time or effort to institute such a pass. The only place it would make sense, would be on the Harbourlynx. From personal experience with commuting, an hour and a half is pretty much the max that people are willing to put up with (one way, not round trip), from home to work. This puts route 1 and 2 out for commuting, since neither side is near any major commercial area (except Departure Bay).

As for tourists, it hardly seems worth it. The most they would save is a few dollars, yet it would cost an awful lot to negotiate the fares and share of profit from all the companies involved. Its simply easier for people to buy separate tickets. Also, are there that many tourists making day trips to Victoria from Vancouver, or vise versa?

As a person who has chosen the bus over a car as my vehicle of choice, I can tell you that there seems to be quite a market out there for tourists on a shoe-string budget. I am regularly helping tourists and British Columbians alike decifer the non-user-friendly system of public transit in the area, and much of that help has gone to people from both of those groups using transit, for various reasons, to make the trip between Vancouver and Victoria.

And if that isn't enough incentive for a multi-modal pass, then just look at one of the jam-packed passing '601' buses that has connected (or will connect) with the bus from/to the Tsawwassen ferry terminal, or even one of the BC Transit double deckers regularly sent out to Swartz Bay from Victoria for that matter.

[Alex]

tsawwassenterminal said:

I am regularly helping tourists and British Columbians alike decifer the non-user-friendly system of public transit in the area, and much of that help has gone to people from both of those groups using transit, for various reasons, to make the trip between Vancouver and Victoria.

One thing that does need to be done, is some sort of information/ticket booth at the Tsawassen terminal bus stop. Obviously, from just standing there waiting for the bus, you can't intuit our transit system. Being a frequent user, I find it a fairly efficient system for all the major landmarks, but someone who's never used it before isn't going to have any idea. Also, as for tickets, the one time I caught the 620 there, it took almost 20 minutes to fill up the bus. Of course, people were standing around doing nothing for about 15 minutes before the bus started loading, so a ticket booth would speed things up immensely.

[Retrovision]

alex said:

tsawwassenterminal said:

I am regularly helping tourists and British Columbians alike decifer the non-user-friendly system of public transit in the area, and much of that help has gone to people from both of those groups using transit, for various reasons, to make the trip between Vancouver and Victoria.

One thing that does need to be done, is some sort of information/ticket booth at the Tsawassen terminal bus stop. Obviously, from just standing there waiting for the bus, you can't intuit our transit system. Being a frequent user, I find it a fairly efficient system for all the major landmarks, but someone who's never used it before isn't going to have any idea. Also, as for tickets, the one time I caught the 620 there, it took almost 20 minutes to fill up the bus. Of course, people were standing around doing nothing for about 15 minutes before the bus started loading, so a ticket booth would speed things up immensely.

LOL! you've got to be kidding me? Translink? Make *those* kind of improvements?

Let me think of just a handful of the customer relations blunders that I've noticed made by Translink in the past month or so, alone:

-Last bus from Vancouver that connects with the ferry bus for the last TSA-SB sailing is 10 min. late on a Friday night... There is *absolutely* no word about the fact that this bus *will* (inevitably) miss the last ferry, and people are left at Ladner Exchange waiting for a bus that will never come. If they couldn't have prevented the missed connection, they could have atleast told us about the situation from the start in order for us to have a chance to make alternative arrangements, maybe not travel all the way out to Ladner, or even catch a cab that would have gotten the people there on time.

-#620, the above-mentioned ferry bus, leaves 5 minutes early, again on a friday, again meeting the last ferry to SB, leaves before the north-bound #601 arrives.

-Last express bus to Tsawwassen is short-turned at Broadway (instead of going downtown, I find out later); the bus I'm on, longer version of the express, would be the best alternative (leaving minutes after the express would have), but are people told to not wait for the express, and get on the bus that will get to their destination not long after the express? *No*! They're forced to wait, *in the rain*, a half hour for the next 601.

-Bus going out of service after picking up in Tsawwassen (and off-loading up to the garage) doesn't pick up in Tsawwassen, and takes his (or her) own route! This one happens surprisingly frequently... Kind of reminds me of BCF advertising the Bowen Queen to Mayne, and not boarding for Mayne.

[kylefossett]

if you need to take a bus right into victoria from vancouver or vice versa take the Pacific Coach Lines (PCL) bus. this bus loads priority on and off the ferry, you can leave your belongings onboard, and you don't get stuck having to stand in the aisle when busy. also this busy guarantees to go from downtown to downtown

[Scott]

As has already been noted, public transit between Tsawwassen and Vancouver is pathetic. Perhaps/Hopefully it will be improved with RAV. Maybe have a direct bus from Tsawwassen to a RAV terminal. That would simplify things a lot. The current bus connects with Skytrain, but it's way out in Surrey and it has to travel along River Road which can't even handle the commuters/industrial traffic that it should.

Horseshoe Bay and Swartz Bay usually have excellent bus service. Horseshoe Bay buses can be busy, but they come often, and they often have an extra bus if it's really busy. I don't know how busy the bus at Swartz Bay gets, but whenever I've been on it, it's been okay.

[Retrovision]

kylefossett said:

if you need to take a bus right into victoria from vancouver or vice versa take the Pacific Coach Lines (PCL) bus. this bus loads priority on and off the ferry, you can leave your belongings onboard, and you don't get stuck having to stand in the aisle when busy. also this busy guarantees to go from downtown to downtown

The PCL bus is great, but the mandate of a company that provides social (public) transit, especially in Canada, is so that an expensive PCL bus shouldn't be necessary.

admin said:

As has already been noted, public transit between Tsawwassen and Vancouver is pathetic. Perhaps/Hopefully it will be improved with RAV. Maybe have a direct bus from Tsawwassen to a RAV terminal. That would simplify things a lot. The current bus connects with Skytrain, but it's way out in Surrey and it has to travel along River Road which can't even handle the commuters/industrial traffic that it should.

The ferry bus was recently (about two years ago) changed. Now, the bus that used to go to Tsawwassen terminal terminates at Ladner, and a new bus, the '620 Airport Stn. / Tsawwassen terminal', routes along highways 99 and 17 between 'Airport Station' transit exchange, Ladner Exchange and Tsawwassen ferry terminal.

The motivation behind the routing of the #620 seems a little misguided. The route uses articulated ("bendy") buses, but almost always has fewer than half a dozen passengers between the airport and Ladner.

It seems that the justification for this has two reasons:

-#1: The #601, the bus that connects ferry travellers between Ladner and Vancouver to the ferry bus, is constantly being over crowded by ferry travellers, which pisses off those who the route was originally intended for (included myself), and makes for a logistical scheduling nightmare for the route (and the routes that the same buses will eventually be used on).
The idea here is to re-route people via the '98 B-Line' (in my opinion, the worst route in the system for over-crowding and scheduling) that is Richmond's only all-hours route to Vancouver... The problem is that there's absolutely nothing in the way of telling people to do so, making the northern leg of the ferry bus almost redundant!

-#2: Bridgeport Station, the future suburban hub of the Canada line (formerly called the RAV line), is on the new route of the ferry bus, and quite near the current northern terminus.
**This will allow you to only have to take one bus to the ferry from Vancouver... unfortunately, as many of us south-of-the-Fraser suburbanites are finding out, you'll still need to take a train between Vancouver and Bridgeport Stn... Who's seats will be given first choice of to all other Richmond travellers when travelling north! (another joy us suburbanites will have to deal with)

admin said:

Horseshoe Bay and Swartz Bay usually have excellent bus service. Horseshoe Bay buses can be busy, but they come often, and they often have an extra bus if it's really busy. I don't know how busy the bus at Swartz Bay gets, but whenever I've been on it, it's been okay.

Victoria also just so happens to have:
a) a direct bus route to/from the ferry/downtown
b) many double decker buses