Scary tourist experiences...places to avoid

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

We digressed in the CR thread, so I thought it might be interesting to discuss some of the places we have been , and would tell others to avoid.

Or, maybe dispel some of the misconceptions people have for places they have yet to venture.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

4roads said:

Can imagine. While on a motorcycle trip a few years ago, I made the proverbial tourist "wrong turn" in San Francisco and ended up on Mission Street. That part of San Francisco makes our Downtown East side look like one our well kept and tidy middle class neighbourhoods. There used to be dumpsters in the downtown area of Vancouver, but they are being removed as our City Council saw the success of a similar project done in Seattle.

and yes Seattle does have a place that is best avoided by visitors. Best part of Seattle is along the waterfront and the
Public Market. There you can actually see the big fish fly.

In Los Angeles, I saw security guards at one of those cheap Sizzler steak restaurants. I asked my friend who used to work for the Los Angeles County Fire Department, what that guy is for.
Mentioned we have security guards, but mostly at big banks and
larger stores, but never seen one at a small restaurant such as
the one we were going into.

He gave me a bit of a frank talk about the neighbourhood we were in. It wasn't that far from the infamous Watts area.

I think my wife almost getting caught in the crossfire of a gun fight in one of the better areas of Camden one night a few years back sealed my opinion of the city.

Call me foolhardy , but I have yet to be intimidated by any "hood" I've visited, and with the exception of LA, I've visited all the other areas mentioned. Must get that from my dad; when he visited me here, he insisted I take him to see as much of Harlem and the Bronx as I could. It was unique; usually I don't end up in the shoddier areas just to see what's going on...

That being said, I understand pnwtraveler and Paul's sentiments about some of the places they have ventured. I think the most apprehensive I have ever been entering an area was when I was in Florida. The rest stops along I-95 near Miami are notorious for their escapades, and at two in the morning, not the best place to venture into. But we had another hour to go, and with all the coffee I had consumed, there was no avoiding it. It turned out to be a non issue, but I was shadowed by some guy the five minutes we were there. Actually, it's my feeling he was not looking for a victim, but a trick.

[Scott]

In the thread that spawned this one, people were mentioning the Downtown Eastside. While I wouldn't recommend anyone walking down there if they have other options, I've done it many times without any trouble. I remember the "good old days" when my mom would take us kids down to Woodwards and Army and Navy and the place was busy and bustling and quite safe. Now buildings are boarded up, people are loitering everywhere, and even though you probably are still quite safe if you mind your own business, you don't feel safe.

I was thinking how others feel walking or being in some areas of smaller cities in BC? The Downtown East Side is an obvious example of a place you'd want to avoid... but what about other "bad neighbourhoods"? I've always felt a bit uncomfortable in the area of Nanaimo on the southern end of downtown, around the Port Place Mall and Harewood Mall (it seemed half-abandoned when I was there). Port Place Mall (do I have the name right?) seems a bit improved in recent years.

[DENelson83]

Yes, Port Place Mall. Formerly Harbour Park Mall, right near the CR Nanaimo open ship staging point.

[Mike C]

Hmm... I went to Costa Rica back in 2004, and visited a park called Manuel Antonio National Park. Last year, a friend of my mom's reported being robbed at gunpoint in the same place and lost most of her stuff.

[Northern Exploration]

Speaking of the big Woodwards store I remember going down there on Saturday afternoons or Thursday evenings. It was huge! We had the little Eatons in Burnaby across from our house but it was really special to go to the big downtown store. We could order things there and pick them up at the store at Brentwood so we didn't have to carry packages or they would deliver everything. Our groceries were also delivered from Super Value in Brentwood within about a half hour of shopping. Sometimes the delivery guy beat us home if we stopped in the mall. They came free in packed in BC McIntosh or Sunkist cardboard boxes.

Back to the topic at hand what has happened to that huge redevelopment of the Woodwards that was supposed to take place and give a boost to the area and provide affordable housing?

[Balfour]

pnwtraveler said:

Back to the topic at hand what has happened to that huge redevelopment of the Woodwards that was supposed to take place and give a boost to the area and provide affordable housing?

They are going ahead with the plan from the looks of things. There is a lot of construction happening there.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

admin said:

In the thread that spawned this one, people were mentioning the Downtown Eastside. While I wouldn't recommend anyone walking down there if they have other options, I've done it many times without any trouble. I remember the "good old days" when my mom would take us kids down to Woodwards and Army and Navy and the place was busy and bustling and quite safe. Now buildings are boarded up, people are loitering everywhere, and even though you probably are still quite safe if you mind your own business, you don't feel safe.

And to think in the late 60's, my parents lived right there while my father finished his degree, and it was a fairly happening place...different time! Many years later, a co-worker's dog found a hand in the same area...

[Koastal Karl]

I have driven through the East Side of Vancouver and even driving through was scary, lol! I did see a car chase happening though. A cop was chasing some car. I wouldent get out in that area though. When we went down to LA to catch our cruise last year we had a full day before are cruise so we did a bit of sightseeing. Ended up a section the PCH that went through a part of Long Beach that wasent that great. We never got out of the car. We turned around and headed back. San Pedro isent that great either of an area but we had to go there as that is where some of the cruise ships dock.

[Ferryman]

Late Sunday afternoon, after we had walked off of the Coastal Renaissance at Canada Place, I started to notice alot of the homeless were hovering around Canada Place very quickly. My level of feeling safe and secure was dropping quite quickly, when seeing the same people pace back and forth near you. As we were purchasing our return ticket to North Van on the Seabus, a homeless man approched us asking for a penny. I always tell them off in a fairly stern voice, because they seem to look for more if you dig down in your pocket, and pull out a hand full of change to look for a penny. Scott made a half mistake in pulling out his wallet, containing a fifty dollar bill. Scott gave the person a penny, and the person reponded "Actually how about you just give me that 50 instead, that would be alot better". At this point I didn't really know what to expect, and I certainly felt a bit of an adrenaline rush start to come into effect, in case something were to happen. Luckily the person walked away when Scott wouldn't give him anymore money. But he certainly didn't walk away quietly. He had to walk away with everyone looking at him, as he was naming off all the profanities he could think of. Then as we were waiting for the Seabus arrive, there were a few more homeless people pacing around, digging through the garbage and recycling bins for anything worth of value to them. This also had me on edge, so I don't think I've felt so relieved to get back into the safe environment of my vehicle.

Out here in Squamish, there's a slow increase in population of the homeless. It's apparently only increasing because the Vancouver Police are buying one way tickets on the Greyhounds for them to random places, to get them out of the Downtown Eastside. They like to set up camps in the bushes behind the shopping centers, or will sleep on construction sites. I've come across the odd homeless person or two, first thing in the morning, when I'm one of the first to arrive on site. Of course I feel guilty in telling them they have to leave. I still consider myself a small town person, so seeing homeless people sleeping on the streets is a little bit an alarming sight for me.

[kylefossett]

Every major city in the world has an area that is a little less desireable. One thing we have to remember when we are in these areas is that the people who live there are exactly that they are people. Soe of them are there by choice, others because of bad luck in life or lack of funding by the government that would provide them with a place to live. Example of this is all the homeless people that have mental issues that 10-15 years ago wold be in Riverview hospital being administered the medications that they need and being provided with a roof over their head and 3 meals a day.

[Northern Exploration]

I have worked with a number of organizations who both work with the homeless and with mental health including one in Vancouver. Younger kids are on the street mostly due to abuse or mental health issues. A small number of the older homeless are there because they were homeless as children. More of the adults are there due to the same mental health problems and a very large number due to substance abuse.

I do have a problem with the more professional panhandlers and am getting very tired of being accosted at every turn on the street. I never had out money. If I have the time, I always offer to buy a coffee. The true homeless will accept that. I usually name the couple of organizations I support and recommend them for help. The professionals only want the money to buy more drugs or alcohol. The professionals are usually rude or ignore me after that. There is one particularly manipulative woman who is outside of restaurant I frequent. She can turn her tears on and off in a second. I have seen her so rude to people if they only give her a small amount of change.

The solutions are not simple. We had a guy get killed by some homeless people here. The story ranges from that he was taunting them to that he gave some small change and the homeless were angered by it. The homeless woman was a US citizen here illegally, was wanted on charges south of the border and was known to have an explosive anger. You can never be sure how they will respond.

The solutions are not simple.

[Neil]

karl said:

I have driven through the East Side of Vancouver and even driving through was scary, lol! I did see a car chase happening though. A cop was chasing some car. I wouldent get out in that area though.

I grew up in the east end of Vancouver. Lived there for more than twenty five years. I can't say that I ever felt particularly frightened walking the streets, and I would say that the east end is probably as safe or dangerous as any other urban area, including the suburbs of Victoria. Driving through one time probably doesn't give you a lot of insight into the area. Kyle is right: there are a lot of people on the streets of Vancouver's downtown who are there because of some terribly bad turns in their fortunes, or mental illness, and they deserve more compassion than just being dismissed as annoying blights on the scenery. I find aggressive beggars annoying as well, but I try to get past my annoyance and recognize that very few of them are there because they made a coherent, clear headed choice to adopt that lifestyle.

Last Sunday, I went downtown to get a look at the Coastal Renaissance. On joining the line up at Canada Place just after two, I was told the wait could be up to an hour and a half, and decided I wasn't that much of a ferry fan, so figured I'd go for a long walk through downtown. Up to Robson, and along the bustling section of higher end clothing stores, the street full of shoppers, then detouring through the west end, which always impresses with all the trees, mini-parks, and gardens which seem to keep the high rises on a human scale. Along Davie, another Vancouver treasure which is probably the only district where greater Vancouver's gay population can feel relatively safe to be 'out', and then to Sunset Beach, which was fairly warm and calm on a sunny Sunday, and teeming with walkers and joggers. Along the sea wall to Denman, a street crammed with so many restaurants one would think all Vancouverites ever do is eat; everything from fish and chips to Mongolian. Finally, along the Coal Harbour waterfront, with all the yachts advertising the wealth of the owners. The waterfront here accessible, but sterile in it's cold, modern planning. Still, it struck me, as it always does, how civilized Vancouver's downtown is, and how one feels fairly safe virtually everywhere. Even in the downtown east side, most of the unfortunate habitues are too wasted to be as much of a threat as some people seem to think they are.

There are areas of Vancouver that look less inviting than others, but I can't think of any that really are inherently dangerous, or that I would counsel visitors to avoid. Violence and assaults can happen anywhere. Poverty, mental illness, and addiction are not pretty to look at, but not quite as threatening as they seem.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Thank you Neil, that was a very eloquently written comment.

Vancouver, though it experiences many of the drug problems of any port city, has one of the most serene and peaceful downtowns of any city I've ever been in. The nearest I experienced outside of Canada was in the UK. And one just has to see my comments above about my wife experience to understand what a truly dangerous city has to offer!

[northwesterner]

4roads said:

Can imagine. While on a motorcycle trip a few years ago, I made the proverbial tourist "wrong turn" in San Francisco and ended up on Mission Street. That part of San Francisco makes our Downtown East side look like one our well kept and tidy middle class neighbourhoods.

Mission Street is an interesting place.

I've ridden the entire 14-Mission bus line from end to end (how could any trolleybus fan pass it up?) It's an interesting street through fascinating neighborhoods, each with their own subculture. But you have to be streetwise as to where you get off. Many stretches of Mission St were vibrant, with people shopping, chatting, and going about their daily business. Then, a block or two later, it was desolate, with boarded up buildings and trash on the sidewalks. Being unfamiliar with the area, you probably don't want to get off the bus there.

Knowing where to go or not to go in an unfamiliar city is hit or miss. I generally just pick a transit route and ride it to the end, and hope I don't end up in the ghetto. I've been pretty lucky most times (and stumbled across some amazing neighborhoods), though I can think of a trip or two in the US and in Europe where I've felt extremely nervous when I've gotten off at the wrong stop (the last time was on the new T-Third in SF).

The Downtown Eastside of Vancouver is a mess. Its a giant drug den + the home to what seems like most of Vancouver's homeless and mentally ill population. You're probably safe walking through there, but why bother? Most of the economic activity in the area has disappeared - the few remaining stores are selling cheap, crappy cigarettes (wait- aren't all Canadian cigarettes crappy?). Personally, I can't think of a good reason to venture into the area on foot unless you have a specific place you are going. I don't even take my charter bus through there on Seattle-Vancouver cruise ship transfers... the 40+ tourists on board, whose time in Vancouver is extremely limited, need leave with a good impression of the most beautiful major city in North America, not some drug slum.