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Post by markkarj on Oct 7, 2006 7:13:04 GMT -8
My understanding is that the Queen of Vancouver is likely the next ship to go when the first Super-C class ship arrives, followed by some of the other V-class vessels.
Does anyone know what the plans are for the retired ships? Is it pretty much inevitable that they go to the ship-breakers?
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Doug
Voyager 
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Oct 7, 2006 14:23:04 GMT -8
I don't know if they will go to Alang but many of them will likely get scrapped within the next 10 years I'd say.
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Post by Curtis on Oct 7, 2006 16:13:06 GMT -8
My guess they'll be used for extra Overnight truck service if not sold or Scrapped. They might want to keep them around a bit longer.
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Post by honkhonk on Oct 7, 2006 17:06:33 GMT -8
I read in a report outlining BC Ferries new vessles, that included some information about the fate of the V's: without major modifications, the V's are to be condemned by Transport Canada in 2009.
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Post by markkarj on Oct 7, 2006 17:52:54 GMT -8
I read in a report outlining BC Ferries new vessles, that included some information about the fate of the V's: without major modifications, the V's are to be condemned by Transport Canada in 2009. Is there a link to the report? If not, what are the major modifications? M |
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Post by honkhonk on Oct 7, 2006 21:47:40 GMT -8
If I can recall, it didn't specify exactly what type of modifications, it only said that the modifications would severly decrease the capacity of the V's and would cost too much for it to be worthwhile.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 8, 2006 7:24:03 GMT -8
Hello "HonkHonk":
Do you also post as "JCA Christian" and "Ship Watcher", or are you someone unrelated?
Whomever you are, welcome, and thanks for the posts......
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Post by HonkHonk on Oct 8, 2006 12:22:43 GMT -8
Nope, not me ;D
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Post by Dane on Oct 9, 2006 11:16:46 GMT -8
Mark your calanders
I agree with Cascade, let's stop exporting the problem.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Oct 9, 2006 16:34:49 GMT -8
Reality check.
The reason ships are broken up at places like Alang is that the resale value of scrap metal does not make it feasible to do ship breaking in places where people are paid a decent living wage. And even Alang is now competing with places which will do it cheaper.
I really think that our skilled shipyard employees would see a profound lack of respect in the notion of turning them into scrap metal workers.
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Post by markkarj on Oct 9, 2006 16:46:25 GMT -8
Was anyone able to confirm that the Queen of Victoria wound up at Alang?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 9, 2006 17:00:14 GMT -8
Reality check. The reason ships are broken up at places like Alang is that the resale value of scrap metal does not make it feasible to do ship breaking in places where people are paid a decent living wage. And even Alang is now competing with places which will do it cheaper. I really think that our skilled shipyard employees would see a profound lack of respect in the notion of turning them into scrap metal workers. ....Unless our society decided that the environmental impact of asbestos issues in ship-breaking was important enough to have skilled-workers do the work, and that we were willing to pay the price, ie. trickle-up effect of higher consumer prices for shipping services. ie. That society agrees that such work is worthy of good-pay, as it is important, and that exporting such work only harms the planet. Yeah, this is pie-in-the-sky, and such radical change (especially when it involves higher costs to people) likey won't happen in wide-scale way....but maybe in small, distinct areas. Of course, this also opens up the issue of the need/purpose of jobs at places like Alang, and whether there always needs to be low-end jobs in various places of the world. If we take away jobs from Alang, what's the outcome? Perhaps a better environment because of a better disposal of hazzardous materials, but how would Alang workers then feed their families? I suspect that Jesus had it right when he said that "You will always have the poor among you." (this was a good song part of the JC-Superstar opera by A.L.Webber, by the way). Sorry, no conclusion for me, just some ponderings to go along with the rest of this discussion. |
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Post by Balfour on Oct 9, 2006 17:31:11 GMT -8
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Post by markkarj on Oct 9, 2006 19:33:33 GMT -8
I appreciate that. It just seemed there were some gaps and conflicting reports, and that the one picture wasn't necessarily sufficient evidence to say that she'd been scrapped. I guess on another note, where are the main ship-breaking sites? I thought there was one in the southern US. There's Alang... where else do ships go to meet their breaker? |
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Oct 9, 2006 21:04:24 GMT -8
where else do ships go to meet their breaker? Oh, great. Just what we need: someone to provoke 'Nanaimo into rolling out his barrel of puns. If it wasn't doctored, I thought the photo in the old post was pretty convincing that it was indeed the 'Victoria on that boneyard beach. I believe the main competition for Alang comes from Bangladesh and Pakistan, where working and safety conditions are even more appalling. The U.S. Navy has done some conscientious, environmentally responsible shipbreaking at yards in Baltimore and elsewhere, but at a high cost. Virtually all of the world's large ship scrapping is done in Asia. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 9, 2006 21:05:24 GMT -8
I heard that "The Breakers" were in Point Roberts USA......
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Oct 9, 2006 21:14:23 GMT -8
...and I have to admit to being somewhat 'wrecked' there, more than once, in my irresponsible youth. Fortunately, I was 'salvageable',and didn't end up being recycled into hubcaps, like the poor old 'Victoria'. Good thing, too, as I was somewhat polluted with toxic materials, possibly even hazardous. Yucch, I think I'd better stop.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Oct 10, 2006 9:10:17 GMT -8
Again, you're ignoring the fact that ship breaking is not feasible on a cost recovery basis anywhere outside of the third world. And I really doubt that our provincial or federal governments would be willing to provide the subsidies to shipyards to make it viable.
I would agree, though, that if ships are being sent to the scrappers, they should be stripped of hazardous materials beforehand, at the owner's expense. What we don't even allow in our own landfills, we shouldn't expect impoverished foreign workers to handle.
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Post by Kam on Oct 12, 2006 14:06:00 GMT -8
I would sure like to see the Queen of Tsawwassen preserved as a historcal vessel. It has so much history and was one of the original BC Ferries.
It would be a huge project and who knows where the money would come from, but it would be nice to see her returned to her original configuration and tied up at the Vancouver Maritime Museum.
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 12, 2006 23:08:33 GMT -8
...My guess they'll be used for extra Overnight truck service... that was the impression that I came away with after BCFS' Annual General Meeting recently. |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Oct 16, 2006 12:52:50 GMT -8
Cascade, no one on this forum has called you capital 'S', or even lower case, 'Stupid'. It's unfortunate if you have issues that cause you to feel persecuted when people disagree with you.
No one has denied that there will be increases in commercial traffic. Duke Point is obviously the best suited terminal, anywhere, given it's location in a non-residential area. A couple of maybe-not-retired-after-all 'V's on overnight service might be enough to make your prediction of Seaspan getting out of the ferry market come true.
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 16, 2006 17:44:32 GMT -8
I think, just as an off-the-cuff, 'outsider' viewpoint, overnight truck service would be a brilliant thing... especially if it takes some pressure off the commuter hours (as it were). If we could put the semi-trucks etc. on their own sailings it would sure make the rest of the day go by a lot easier down in our neck of the woods!
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 17, 2006 10:05:57 GMT -8
Which "Western countries" would we be talking about? A quick check of math indicates WSF's RoRo fleet averages out to about 37 years... and that's discounting the Nisqually.
That having been said, I'm in favor of putting an age limit on the boats, at least as long as there is financial assistance for replacement at the federal level.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Oct 17, 2006 21:56:27 GMT -8
Cascade: thank you for your interest in my health. I'm not too bad, all things considered. Variety is indeed the spice of life, and every once in a while, just for a lark, I figure I should be charitable, and agree with one of your outlandish assertions. It hurts, but I think it does me good.
barnacle: Greece has moved to age restrictions on ferries, and other countries in Europe may be following. A good idea, on the whole, but it will eliminate all the old 'character' ships before long.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 18, 2006 18:30:43 GMT -8
Interesting discussion about the age of vessels in the BCF fleet. If we had 30 and out the first three C class would now be headed to the ship breakers.
Our neighbours in Washington and Alaska have vessels in service that are as old or older than our V class. Whats more, Alaska's 'Blue Canoes' are older than the QPR and have had just as hard lives, perhaps harder. I am not aware of any plan by the AMHS to replace these vessels any time soon.
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