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Post by Starbucks Queen on May 28, 2006 1:28:24 GMT -8
Hi everyone, a friend and me are about to do a Kalakala-website, well it´s not the official one but is more about memories of the ship, collectibles, stories of people who have seen it, been on it, no matter whether that was in Seattle, Alaska or Seattle again and Tacoma. It takes some research of course, and the permission of people since we would like to add some interesting photographs, stories, comments to the site. If anyone of you does have such, and would like to help us, it would be appreciated very much, credits given of course. There won´t be any money made with the site, it´s just to share the above mentioned. Thanks, in advance and if you´d like to help, simply send me an Instant Message or contact Marilyn via the website on www.kalakalamania.com
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Post by Retrovision on May 28, 2006 16:58:22 GMT -8
That's a really great site! Thanks go out to all those involved. It takes some research of course, and the permission of people since we would like to add some interesting photographs, stories, comments to the site.
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Post by Starbucks Queen on May 29, 2006 13:38:21 GMT -8
We´ve got a guestbook so... of course just positive comments (just kidding)
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Post by Retrovision on May 29, 2006 13:54:08 GMT -8
Otherwise no idea what you meant with your post, it does not make much sense since you didn´t explain. Well, one person´s moral is another person´s chance... ...it´s sad that someone has nicked the photos... - hey that´s MY chance...
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Post by Starbucks Queen on May 29, 2006 14:21:01 GMT -8
Well, I think I know where you are coming from :-) Marilyn knows, and I know the risk too, that some might nick our collectibles - make copies and sell them on the net. But we just think, the ship´s history is worth to share what we have with others, even taking this risk, that some abuses this. Please read my other comment about stolen pics etc. - you will see what I did mean.
And yes, some of the postcards I have - I did buy them on ebay or get them from people. It could even be, that I do have a "fake" original amongst my cards - I just did go there and buy it to collect.
Otherwise no idea what you meant with your post, it does not make much sense since you didn´t explain.
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Post by Starbucks Queen on May 29, 2006 21:06:43 GMT -8
I do have really no idea what you have a go about nor are you able to write a complete sentence it seems. If you didn´t read the topic, it´s about a new site about the Kalakala un-related to the official one and more about how people got fascinated by it. If you don´t understand it, like it - just leave it, I know it´s not everyone´s taste. I just thought, on a ferry-forum like this, some might be interested.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on May 29, 2006 22:10:19 GMT -8
I'm not sure I catch the drift, either..... but the Kalakala site is a winner, thanks for that.
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Post by Retrovision on May 29, 2006 23:17:27 GMT -8
(Unfortunatley my statement that SQ was just commenting on was unintentionally altered and had to be deleted because I accidentally modified it in the process of quoting it, making it identical to this post; apologies)Hmm, I'm not too sure what's not clear about any statements that I've made in this thread, implied or not. I guess some translation is in order for those who aren't well-versed in subtleties: **Translation by Graham:**Well, you obviously have stronger morals than I... ...it's sad that you couldn't protect your photos, but hey, that's just too bad for you... **Translation by Graham:**But when it comes to something that *I* have an interest in protecting, I feel obliged to atleast pretend that I actually have those same morals, even though my principles don't include asking permission to use other people's intellectual property. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like to mis-quote, but I also will not roll over and ignore my intellectual property not only being sold without my permission, but also having this activity condoned by a member of this forum, who, in practically the same breath, claims: Real Quote:It takes some research of course, and the permission of people since we would like to add some interesting photographs, stories, comments to the site. If anyone of you does have such, and would like to help us, it would be appreciated very much, credits given of course. ...No, I will not capitulate, especially not to hypocracy. I am a man of principles, and one of those happens to be the belief in fighting fire with fire (or for what's right, for that matter), not excluding mis-quoting if a translation is asked for.
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Post by Retrovision on May 30, 2006 0:26:00 GMT -8
Here are the two quote-excerpts, as originally posted by SQ, that I "translated" based on how I inferred them, seen in the first "translation" of my last post (This post is from the "Graham has been "Stolen" again!" thread, btw):Well, one person´s moral is another person´s chance so to say... ...For me, it´s sad that someone has nicked the photos, but on the other side I thought - hey that´s MY chance to widen my collection with Canadian images ! ...And here is the other quote, from this thread, that I used for the rest: Hi everyone, a friend and me are about to do a Kalakala-website, well it´s not the official one but is more about memories of the ship, collectibles, stories of people who have seen it, been on it, no matter whether that was in Seattle, Alaska or Seattle again and Tacoma. It takes some research of course, and the permission of people since we would like to add some interesting photographs, stories, comments to the site. If anyone of you does have such, and would like to help us, it would be appreciated very much, credits given of course. There won´t be any money made with the site, it´s just to share the above mentioned. Thanks, in advance and if you´d like to help, simply send me an Instant Message or contact Marilyn via the website on www.kalakalamania.com
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Post by Retrovision on May 30, 2006 1:27:14 GMT -8
For the sake of transparency, I spent some time trying to find this, the missing quote from me: (although i've lost its original quote-form, you can get the idea atleast of what SQ was referring to)
Yesterday at 5:11pm, Gypsy wrote: Yesterday at 3:21pm, Starbucks Queen wrote: Otherwise no idea what you meant with your post, it does not make much sense since you didn´t explain.
hmm, maybe this is more concise:
May 28, 2006, 11:13am, Starbucks Queen wrote:Well, one person´s moral is another person´s chance...
...it´s sad that someone has nicked the photos... - hey that´s MY chance...
May 28, 2006, 2:28am, Starbucks Queen wrote:...and the permission of people...
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 30, 2006 4:58:10 GMT -8
I'll give you my translation of what Graham's trying to say.
It seems hypocritical for StarbucksQueen to say in her Kalakala post that she is interested in "obtaining photos with permission" and "giving credit where needed".
It's hypocritical because she said a couple of days ago that she would like to purchase on Ebay some of the photos that had been stolen from Graham & from Kevin.
I, like Graham, am perplexed by what seems to be an inconsistent approach by StarBucksQueen here.
StarbucksQueen: Please set the record straight: do you respect another person's intellectual property? How do you reconcile your promise about Kalakala property, with your comment about being willing to buy one of Graham's stolen pictures?
I, for one, await your clarification on this matter.
I trust that the above comments are clear, as to what I see the issue to be......
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Post by Marilyn on May 30, 2006 6:56:38 GMT -8
Hello, my name is Marilyn and I am the one who has started the Kalakala-Mania site. I do not wish to infringe on anyone's intellectual or otherwise property and do wish that these concerns be sent to me. If there are issues on rights, please let's address it--either work out an agreement or I will take it off the site. I apologize to Graham and Kevin and wish that they would get in touch with me at mmonts@kalakalamania.com. At this point there are a few photos that have been sent to me over the years and I have no record where they came from. I have hoped that if there are any problems that I will be contacted to work it out.
Please remember that this site is under construction and I do want to have everything as above-board as possible. I will do my best to get more facts about contributions. Anyway, please get in touch directly.
Big thanks to all who have responded with interesting and informative contributions to the site. I really appreciate it.
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Post by Marilyn on May 30, 2006 7:24:26 GMT -8
I just wanted to add that Starbucks Queen is not the one who is choosing material for the Kalakala-Mania site. Actually, she has been helping secure permissions before-the-fact for material not yet posted on the site. Please direct any problems to me personally. I also want to remind everyone that this is not a site that makes money. It is a hobby site by a retired person on fixed income. I am doing this because I have followed the Kalakala since she was brought back from Alaska and the site is my tribute to all the interesting ways she is being remembered. I don't know Graham, but I sincerely would like to be in touch with him.
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Post by Retrovision on May 30, 2006 9:03:03 GMT -8
Thank you for your patience with an issue, Marilyn, that is, I'd guess, largely based on mis-communications and mis-interpretations, including on my behalf. I apologize for any mud that I might have dragged this new site through; I, among most here, am extremely thankful for the surprising ammount of effort put forth by some, even in the face of an almost total lack of political-will to do the same. Please keep the significant contributions that you're making, to the preservation of our nautical history, coming; and I'm sure that most members here share this same enthusiasm. I would like to briefly clarify one point to all the members, as well as to you, Marilyn: There is no association or connection between any stolen intellectual property and any/all efforts to preserve and document the Kalakala, particularly the Kalakala-Mania site!
...So Please, everyone, do take some time to visit this great new site:
www.kalakalamania.comCheers, Graham Johnson GrahamEAJohnson@hotmail.com
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Post by Starbucks Queen on May 30, 2006 9:18:54 GMT -8
To Gypsy and the Nanaimo - it seems you have not just serious issues but also try to ruin the Kalakala - thread. About fighting fire with fire, well the Kalakala is built up on the hull of a burnt out ship. I think, I should clarify some things here, you have not just been misinterpreting me but you have not been reading what I wrote on the other thread, to which this sort of stupid rant should actually belong to. OK, so I make it a bit easier for you people - well, and there is also one thing I did point out on my other posts on the "stolen photo" thread - that I do not just see things from ONE point of view, but here - from THREE points of view - and one is MY personal point of view. Hey, please take the patience and read, and as you were previously too lazy to type yourself but just thought you can make a post by using quites, I better take time here. 1) The view of the one, who´s photos were "nicked" and someone sold them on ebay: I can understand the rant, and it´s of course not according to the "play fair rules". Hey, I have been once in the same situation - been at a ship-enthusiasts meeting, gave some pics to someone for free and the guy did literally - copy these and sell them to people. Hm.. I thought by myself "s***ty, I SHOULD have been more clever and do that before him". But, well I wasn´t angry - he made good business and I was amazed about the amount of people who liked my photos. They are still mine of course, I have the negatives/positives still. 2: The view of an ferry-enthusiast who is looking for photos, postcards and items for sale, and who has some struggle to find the wished items, and/or nobody who´d be interested in exchanging them either. This was, when I wrote - that it is of course NOT NICE - but it is really MY CHANCE to get photos of Canadian ferries !!!! OK - my first question here, and if you still have a big mouth and think you can fight me with fire, give a honest answer for it: - If you was in my position, living in Europe, been to Canada, no chance of good photos, not knowing the places to get good shots and not so much time but absolutely fascinated by ferries - what would YOU do to get photos ? In my case - it´s often searching on ebay, but - and I am repeating myself here - prefer exchanging as I´m really not interested in money. And finally, MY OWN opiniom, and my own principles on this subject - if you can still follow me ! - I personally would NEVER nick anyone´s photos and sell these on ebay. I have not done this, I have no intention of this. There are some people with whom I really like to exchange pics, postcards etc. and they do end up in my collection. However, if you didn´t understand what I wrote on this website - MY OWN policy, and Marilyn´s is too, that we do look for stuff to SHOW on internet - not to sell - note this - is to look for stuff, but get the permission for this. For all images on the site, we did contact the people and asked whether we can display it there. On my own photo-site there are just seen photos of European ferries I have taken. Well, so if anyone IS interested in copying some, and sell them on ebay, go on !!! I don´t have a problem with that, I am still the owner of my pic, and it´s a big compliment for me, if let´s say someone bid really high on my pics. Hey, and if you do WANT a paper-copy of one of the photos, I wouldn´t have a problem to send one to you, either ! You can do whatever you want with it. Now, get it ? My policy is quite different than the one of the guy who sells the nicked photos on ebay - but the fact that I would not do it his/her way does not prevent me to buy some pics as it´s simply too itching to get some paper - copies of Canadian ferries in my collection. I´m not a computer-freak so most of my stuff is on paper still, like it better.. - Though, stuff what I don´t know where it comes from, can´t contact the owner etc. or one does not want it to be shown - stays in my "files" here at home and is just a personal collection. There is some stuff like that here but it will NEVER be displayed or sold. Now, this are my three points made. If you have something else to contribute to the Kalakala site than funny comments, which show that you didn´t read my posts on the photo-topic, I can just assure you, that for everyone who would have something, the names of the people who contributed something will be mentioned and we don´t publish stuff we don´t have permission for, either and for sure not making money. Luckily we did have some help already, but more´s always better of course. There´s some stuff from USA of course, but it would be interesting to get some pics, anectodes, stories from the route to Victoria, too. obscenity edited by mod
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Post by Marilyn on May 30, 2006 17:18:10 GMT -8
I do not understand why this situation has gotten so out-of-hand. I want to clarify Starbucks Queen's position with the site. I unfortunately left the impression that she is just a flunkie on the Kalakala-Mania project and that is absolutely not the case. She is a co-creator and since she has world-wide experience and expertise about feries that I do not, she is essential for this project. We have taken this project on because it has until just now been lots of fun and we think it would be interesting to other ferry and Kalakala enthusiasts. I would think that so much more could be done with a forum such as this if we concentrate on the ferries that bring us together.
I do hope that this thread can move on to find who has memories of the Kalakala and/or who knows people with those memories. Please read the submission re the photo of the Kalakala in Victoria B.C. Do you have anything like that? Or something not like that! And any constructive suggestions would be welcome!
Thanks, Marilyn
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Post by Mike C on May 30, 2006 17:44:31 GMT -8
No ferry can compare - the great Kalakala is one awesome vessel.
I have to agree with Marilyn here: This is an spectacular site, and let's all enjoy the hard efforts put in by these great people.
Keep up the good work!!
-Michael
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Post by Marilyn on Jun 1, 2006 9:04:12 GMT -8
Thank you Queen of Burnaby Teen! We appreciate the good words about the site. There's been a very good response, lots of hits, in spite of the fact that the site is just at it's beginnings and obviously under construction. The Postcard page has grown the most, the fastest and, as near as we can tell, do not have questionable origins. Today and tomorrow there will be another ten posted. There's a story about the Kalakala's knibblin' pin and information sent in about the Victoria B.C. Inner Harbor and the changes from when the photo was taken. If anyone has more information, photos, or stories they will be posted ASAP at www.kalakalamania.com. If you have any questions about the Kalakala, please ask here. This is my last post as a guest. I've been visiting the BC forum for quite a while and it's high time I joined in officially. Thanks, Marilyn
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Post by Starbucks Queen on Jun 1, 2006 9:59:15 GMT -8
Thank you as well, Burnaby Teen - you have brought the thread out of the darkness into the light again Thanks as well for all those who have been visiting, and especially for those who keep telling that we should go on, and that we are on the right way, helped with tips, photos etc. It´s just a pleasure to work for this site, Marilyn doing the site, collecting pictures and me, far away in Europe am searching the net, searching images and the ones we get permission from, will go to the site, as well letters and mails written to institutions, newspapers etc. to get some of the old stories, and make them visible for everyone who comes to the site to learn about the ship´s interest. However, there is always an open ear for critic of the constructive sort of.
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Post by Mike C on Jun 1, 2006 14:19:03 GMT -8
Hey, your welcome. I read the posts, and as this thread progressed, the accusations were flying and it just killed me to see you and Marilyn under this kind of awful preasure, after you had just spent your hard work on such a great website...
Yeah - you gotta love those postcards; my favourite part of the whole website!!!
Again, your absolutley welcome.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Jun 1, 2006 15:52:14 GMT -8
One suggestion- a section on the Kalakala in her first incarnation as the Peralta. (Perhaps you're already doing that.) Good work so far in chronicling a very odd, but very notable maritime specimen. Hopefully she'll survive in real life, too.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 1, 2006 17:25:32 GMT -8
Hey, your welcome. I read the posts, and as this thread progressed, the accusations were flying and it just killed me to see you and Marilyn under this kind of awful preasure, after you had just spent your hard work on such a great website... . The "accusations" were really just a basic question of integrity, from my point of view. I thought, and still believe, that earlier discussion on this thread to be legitmate. I don't apologize for drawing attention to what I saw to be an integrity issue. And for me, the ealier issue in this thread has tainted my perspective of this new KalaKala website. That's just me saying my piece. Disagreement is healthy....
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Post by Mike C on Jun 1, 2006 17:34:12 GMT -8
Okay, stating your opinion, very well.
I understand, however, it wasn't exactly you.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Jun 1, 2006 18:16:48 GMT -8
The "accusations" were really just a basic question of integrity, from my point of view. I thought, and still believe, that earlier discussion on this thread to be legitmate. I don't apologize for drawing attention to what I saw to be an integrity issue. And for me, the ealier issue in this thread has tainted my perspective of this new KalaKala website. From my interpretation of Starbucks Queen's 'intent', I thought the reaction was perhaps a bit heavy handed. But maybe I'm being naive.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 1, 2006 20:01:32 GMT -8
I'm a passionate person.......so most things I do/say come across as heavy-handed.
that's fair comment.
oops, I hijjacked the thread-topic again, Marilyn will be sending the US Air National Guard my way..........
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