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Post by EGfleet on Feb 26, 2007 15:36:48 GMT -8
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Post by SS Shasta on Feb 26, 2007 16:36:50 GMT -8
Oh Yes  ! They were beautiful vessels, both inside and out. I do remember their Sun Deck. It seems a bit strange that their rebuild from double to single enders actually doomed them to a shorter operational life  . If they were not rebuilt, they would likely still be working and we would have 6 Steel Electrics to worship and revere. BTW: the large windows on the car deck do look nice. Question for the history experts: Did MV Willipa and MV Enetai ever work as double enders on Puget Sound or did they go directly to the yard for their rebuilds? My good references on this question are in Seattle. |
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 26, 2007 18:41:16 GMT -8
Oh, there's something about that in Ferryboats: A Legend on Puget Sound. (scrambles to bookcase) According to Kline & Bayless, the Quinault and Illahee entered service temporarily on the Bremerton run as double-enders while the Willapa and Enetai were converted, so it's unlikely that they ever ran as double-enders. But... six steel-electrics? I think we'd have probably pensioned off a couple by now as extremely surplus. They likely wouldn't have made it past the 1980s' MLU.
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 26, 2007 19:16:45 GMT -8
Oh Yes ! They were beautiful vessels, both inside and out. I do remember their Sun Deck. It seems a bit strange that their rebuild from double to single enders actually doomed them to a shorter operational life . If they were not rebuilt, they would likely still be working and we would have 6 Steel Electrics to worship and revere. BTW: the large windows on the car deck do look nice. Question for the history experts: Did MV Willipa and MV Enetai ever work as double enders on Puget Sound or did they go directly to the yard for their rebuilds? My good references on this question are in Seattle. They did. Santa Rosa saw service on the Seattle-Port Townsend paper run, then did Seattle-Winslow from )October 28th 1940 until mid-December. Fresno also did relief service for a bit under her original name. While they were doing this Redwood Empire and Lake Tahoe were being overhauled and renamed Quinault and Illahee. After they were done they were sent to work Seattle-Bremerton (Starting on 13 January 1941) while the Santa Rosa and Fresno went into the yard at Winslow for their $600,000 rebuilding as single enders. Willapa replaced the Quinault on on 2 May 1941 and the Enetai replaced the Illahee. They remained on the Seattle-Bremeton run for the next 27 years. BTW, Steamboat Bill # 205, Spring of 1993 probably has the best article ever written about the Steel Electrics--and this is where I got the information from.  |
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 26, 2007 19:25:06 GMT -8
Well, there we have it then. I'm getting tired of finding holes in Kline and Bayless...  |
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Post by SS San Mateo on Feb 26, 2007 21:01:08 GMT -8
Well, there we have it then. I'm getting tired of finding holes in Kline and Bayless... Does this same book also say when the car deck windows on the steel-electrics were replaced with the round portholes? Seems like (until a year or two ago) everything I've read indicates they were replaced when they went in for rebuilt in the late 50's. |
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Post by SS Shasta on Feb 26, 2007 22:54:31 GMT -8
But... six steel-electrics? I think we'd have probably pensioned off a couple by now as extremely surplus. They likely wouldn't have made it past the 1980s' MLU. Oh what fun it is to speculate ;D. If they were kept as double enders, we might not have needed so many Issaquah Class vessels ;D. On the question of portholes, I believe they replaced the windows on the double enders when they were overhauled at the commercial shipyards in Winslow about 1958??? or so. My dad took me over there one week end back then so we could see work being done on the MV Illahee. He had a friend working at the yard at the time. |
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Post by hergfest on Feb 27, 2007 0:38:17 GMT -8
Why did the Bremerton run need single ended vessels? I read somewhere that they had to be for that run.
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 27, 2007 6:43:57 GMT -8
But... six steel-electrics? I think we'd have probably pensioned off a couple by now as extremely surplus. They likely wouldn't have made it past the 1980s' MLU. Oh what fun it is to speculate ;D. If they were kept as double enders, we might not have needed so many Issaquah Class vessels ;D. On the question of portholes, I believe they replaced the windows on the double enders when they were overhauled at the commercial shipyards in Winslow about 1958??? or so. My dad took me over there one week end back then so we could see work being done on the MV Illahee. He had a friend working at the yard at the time. Actually they did that within the first two or three years of the State taking over ferry operations. I have photos of the Nisqually being worked on t Winslow and she already had the portholes on her before they started the major overhauls of 58-59. |
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 27, 2007 7:20:31 GMT -8
I've seen a postcard of the Klickitat going through Wasp Pass in the San Juans postmarked 1954, and she already had the round portholes. Start looking at your old postcards--there's actually a lot of them where the boats have the round portholes but still have the wooden railings on the promenade... that's your big tip-off. |
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Post by Barnacle on Feb 27, 2007 7:23:35 GMT -8
Why did the Bremerton run need single ended vessels? I read somewhere that they had to be for that run. At the time, it was the theory that the extra time for turning around was compensated for by not having to drag the extra propeller. It may have even been the case; I don't know. The Super class pretty much exploded that one, though... those ferries can go faster as double-enders than the single-enders could manage. The Kalakala, despite all the propaganda, could only do about 15-16 knots. The Willapa and Enetai reportedly did 17 1/2, but I've only seen that quote in one place. |
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Post by SS Shasta on Feb 27, 2007 7:38:15 GMT -8
Why did the Bremerton run need single ended vessels? I read somewhere that they had to be for that run. According to the story, Capt. Alexander Peabody, Chairman of the Black Ball Lines, thought that single enders "looked like ships" and double enders "were just ferryboats." He ordered the rebuild of MV Willipa and MV Enetai after his rebuild of SS Peralta into MV Kalakala. SS and later MV Chippewa was always a single ender as were SS City of Sacramento and SS Malahat which also served Bremerton in the 1940's. There was the claim that single enders were faster and would reduce time needed for the route. This has long been a subject of debate as minutes were lost docking (backing into Bremerton) as well as necessary slowdowns because of weather conditions or heavy marine traffic in the area. There was also some doubt about how well the single enders could operate at top speed. I remember my father saying " it was rough to steer the Kalakala at any speed, but ahh, the Chippewa, she was a gem at top speed." Bremerton was not the only route to use single enders. MV Chippewa frequently worked the San Juans, MV Rosario was assigned to the Seattle - Suquamish - Indianola run during its last days of operation, and MV Kalakala worked from Port Angeles to Victoria for several summer seasons. I believe that MV Willapa was actually assigned to the Seattle-Winslow run a time or two during an emergency. Several of the single enders worked the Seattle-Port Townsend route often making special runs during the Second World War. The regular on that route, SS and later MV Iroquois was a single ender. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2007 11:07:41 GMT -8
Great pictures of the Willapa. Thank you so much for sharing them. I have never been a true fan of the looks of the Willapa and Enatai. However, I have always been interested in their interiors. They sure did look nice inside I must say. It would have been fun to ride on them on a warm summer evening relaxing on the sundeck as they travelled through Rich Passage.
Here's a bit of information regarding them being on the Bainbridge route. My Father (who worked for Black Ball on the Klahanie, Kahloken, Elwah and others) told me that on Sunday nights either the Willapa or Enatai would make a round trip to Winslow to help out with traffic flow. As one would come over to the Island the Iroquois would make a round trip to Bremerton. Another interesting fact is that during WWII the Rosario acted as a third boat on the Bainbridge route. I will get more details on the times she ran from my Father for everyone. I had never heard of those two running as double enders before their conversion so I find that fasinating. Thanks for the info on that. Does anyone have any pictures of the Malahat on the Bremerton route before she caught fire and was rebuilt? God she was ugly after that!
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 27, 2007 15:53:44 GMT -8
Great pictures of the Willapa. Thank you so much for sharing them. I have never been a true fan of the looks of the Willapa and Enatai. However, I have always been interested in their interiors. They sure did look nice inside I must say. It would have been fun to ride on them on a warm summer evening relaxing on the sundeck as they travelled through Rich Passage. Here's a bit of information regarding them being on the Bainbridge route. My Father (who worked for Black Ball on the Klahanie, Kahloken, Elwah and others) told me that on Sunday nights either the Willapa or Enatai would make a round trip to Winslow to help out with traffic flow. As one would come over to the Island the Iroquois would make a round trip to Bremerton. Another interesting fact is that during WWII the Rosario acted as a third boat on the Bainbridge route. I will get more details on the times she ran from my Father for everyone. I had never heard of those two running as double enders before their conversion so I find that fasinating. Thanks for the info on that. Does anyone have any pictures of the Malahat on the Bremerton route before she caught fire and was rebuilt? God she was ugly after that! I have one of her having just arrived but still with the name Napa Valley and a few others not appearing on my website if you'd like to see them--none of them shows her actually operating as the Malahat in her pre-fire days though. I understand it was actually a short period of time from her arrival to her catching on fire. |
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! They were beautiful vessels, both inside and out. I do remember their Sun Deck. It seems a bit strange that their rebuild from double to single enders actually doomed them to a shorter operational life 
. If they were not rebuilt, they would likely still be working and we would have 6 Steel Electrics to worship and revere. BTW: the large windows on the car deck do look nice.
