Terrorism to impact ferries?

[Northern Exploration]

The following is from today's Toronto Star. You should see the number of foot passengers with coolers, bags, backpacks and other pretty bulky items on summer weekends. You would almost need to prescreen passengers and put them behind a secure area in order to not totally screw up schedules. Sound ludicrous to me. Especially when you could just drive a boat up alongside the ferry like they did with the destroyer Cole and detonate it.

If they are looking at this for foot passengers - what about cars?

"New anti-terrorist rules may snag island ferry"

"Plans by Ottawa to screen bags, install detectors `make no sense' for Toronto on busy weekends, David Miller says"

Feb 09, 2007 04:30 AM
Toronto's island ferry service is seeking exemptions from Transport Canada security rules that might require passengers to board single file, go through a metal detector, and have their bags and coolers searched.

Mayor David Miller says the new rules "make no sense" for the island ferries, which carry tens of thousands of passengers on busy summer weekends.

"The equivalent is to say you need a metal detector at every bus stop in Toronto," Miller said in an interview.

The ferry service is "accidentally caught up in a federal program that I would hope is not designed to deal with urban transportation," he said.

City spokesperson Brad Ross said the ferry service has been talking to Transport Canada about the security rules, meant to thwart terrorists.

Some of the regulations won't interfere with current operations, Ross said, such as having secure fencing around boarding areas and installing surveillance cameras.

But rules about making passengers board in single file, checking bags and coolers or running passengers through metal detectors do raise practical questions, he said.

The city is talking to Transport Canada about how to meet its requirements but also the needs of Toronto residents, he said.

"Within the regulations, as I understand it, there are exemptions, and you can relax the regulations in certain circumstances," he said. "That's what we're trying to find, that middle ground. That's what the talks with Transport Canada are about."

Miller told the Star he hasn't taken part in the talks, but could get involved if necessary.

"The discussion so far has been civil service to civil service," he said.

"But from my perspective, Toronto ferries, first of all, are not a safety threat. Secondly, they're a city service within city boundaries and should not be subject to these kind of federal requirements, period."

A Transport Canada spokesman said he couldn't comment yesterday.

CITY HALL BUREAU staff

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Ya, that's a little overboard, especially if they don't screen cars as well.

On a similar note, the "official" reason given for the Staten Island ferries not carrying cars anymore was to remove traffic load on the downtown waterfront. However, from what I understand, the Staten Island ferries don't carry cars anymore because of the concern someone might pack explosives on board, and there was no way to effectively screen the cars in a timely manner. So they just banned cars on the ferries...it's kinda absurd, too, since they don't really have a screening process for the passengers, other than a few cops who try to look mean.

[Political Incorrectness]

If you will complain about not having a screening proccess, you can welcome yourself to dive into George Orwell's 1984 Those are my two cents

Moving on, if Transport Canada implemented those measures for BCFS, um let me see here, oh yeah. EVEN USCG GOES LIGHTER THAN YOU!

[Northern Exploration]

I will try to post it later but another article today said Transport Canada hadn't resolved what to do about new security measures and were developing them in conjunction with the Ferry operators in Toronto and elsewhere.

[Northern Exploration]

Can't find the article on the website. But today again there was a paragraph about it.

"Security Concerns"

"Agreement reached on Island Ferries"

"City of Toronto and federal officials have reached an agreement that will keep the ferry service to Toronto Island running normally despite tighter federal sercurity rules to combat terrorism. City officials had feared the ferry service might have to put passengers through a metal detector and also search bags and coolers. That would have created a huge bottleneck on summer days and busy weekends."

The Caribana Picnic, Virgin records Virginfest, and Wakefest are very big events held on the Islands each year. Moving such large crowds with screening would have been a nightmare.

[Scott]

If you think Toronto Ferries would be negatively affected, think of something like the Seabus where there is basically no supervision of who gets on the ferry.

On the Seabus there's sometimes one or two employees making sure you have a ticket or to open the special door for wheelchairs or something, but often you can walk into the waiting room without interaction with anyone.

At least with Toronto Ferries (going to the Islands) you do have to walk by a ticket booth to pay (like going into the PNE for instance). And then once you're in the Toronto terminal, it's like a jail - an enclosed courtyard. I don't think you could get in or out without walking past someone.

[Political Incorrectness]

I know with seabus they have turnstiles before you enter the waiting area, why not make people scan there tickets before heading through the turnstiles? Why not upgrade them to make sure that everyone is paying? Is it really worth all the upgrade to make sure or is it better to have transit police?

[BrianWilliams]

" why not make people scan their tickets ..."

Well, this a bigger issue than anti-terrorism, but I agree.

Vancouver's SkyTrain system was designed as a low-personnel operation, with no motormen, platform attendants, ticket sellers/takers; not even turnstiles. SeaBus, inaugurated 12 years earlier, was an extension of the bus system. Originally, there were fare collectors, who also checked transfers from the busses.

SkyTrain should have at least installed turnstiles at all stations. The simple model, well known by the mid-1980's, uses a mag-stripe ticket that is sucked in, releases the gate and spits out the ticket in a sec. Every transit system I've seen in Europe uses this method. It's fast, and cuts fare evasion 'way down (unlike the 15%+ losses claimed on SkyTrain).

Turnstiles also discourage creeps casually wandering around in Fare-Paid zones looking for an opportunity.

Finally, we have an effective Transit Police force. These well-trained people are making our system better. But -- you saw it here first -- I'll bet we eventually install turnstiles with ticket readers at all SkyTrain stations before the decade is out. Hmm, what's the plan for the Canada Line?

[BrianWilliams]

Just a bit more: I said, "Turnstiles also discourage creeps .."

Of course, a crook can buy a $2 ticket to get on the platform where he can jostle old ladies and snatch a purse - but Vancouver Police told us last week: "Vancouver is a $10 town; small hits are ten bucks. Street junkies will break car windows until they have enough change to get high."

Most of 'em wouldn't give up a toonie to prey on transit riders.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

brianwilliams said:

SkyTrain should have at least installed turnstiles at all stations. The simple model, well known by the mid-1980's, uses a mag-stripe ticket that is sucked in, releases the gate and spits out the ticket in a sec. Every transit system I've seen in Europe uses this method. It's fast, and cuts fare evasion 'way down (unlike the 15%+ losses claimed on SkyTrain).

Some parts of the Philly, New Jersey, and New York transit systems use the mag strip, too. From what I've seen, they work okay, but I think the cards are recycled, and often fail. In addition, people use the handicap entrance to bypass the turnstiles, as it is a swinging gate someone can hold open.

[BrianWilliams]

My first exposure to mag-stripe tickets was London's Underground in 1972. London had a pretty complicated fare system then.

The charm was that I bought a ticket from a machine or human, stating my destination (or choosing a station from the machine). The ticket admitted me to the platform thru the turnstile, sucked in and spit back, then released me from the system at my destination.

Whoops! Haven't paid enough? The exit turnstile locked, with me in its padded jaws until I fed the excess fare into a coin slot or was rescued by a transit worker. This has been the subject of many Punch cartoons.

Since those very old days, technology's moved on. We rode the still-Communist Metro in Prague in 1987. Speaking no Czech, we chose to buy tickets from the machines. A fistful of 5-cent Crowns paid for long trips around the city, with the fare subtracted every time we turnstiled our mag-striped tickets.

Big surprise: exactly one year later, we rode around Washington, DC in the same way. Buy a $5 ticket - zip-zip - the turnstiles subtracted the fare as we left our destination station.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

That's right, Washington, DC is the same way. I was trying to remember, but wasn't sure. Digressing for a moment, the transit authority has contracted a new voice for the announcement system as people apparently were starting to tune out the old one especially when it issued warnings. In the nasally voice Carol Burnett used for her telephone operator personality, "Please stand clear of the door as the train approaches the station".

[Northern Exploration]

I buy the cards in NYC and you can purchase bulk tickets for the subway. I believe by buying $20 worth at a time you get $22 or so worth of rides. The magstrip does wear out after a while if you reload them too many times but the agent in the booth is able to read how much you have left and load that onto another card. There is also a one day tourist fare you can buy at a couple of locations that is a good deal.

DC's system works on mileage and you preload a certain amount of $ on the card. You swipe when you board and you swipe when you leave. The farther you travel the more fare you pay.

Both work really well as you are able to go through the turnstiles very quickly even when it is busy and crowed. No waiting to buy tickets etc. and you can reload at self serve terminals.