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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 4, 2007 6:59:21 GMT -8
The Chair of the TTC is talking about funding a study to explore fast passenger ferries from Etobicoke and Scarborough to downtown Toronto. I don't see that happening in the case of Etobicoke because the streetcar is right on the doorstep in that area. By car the trip takes not much more than the 15 minutes he is touting. However, there maybe some merrit for the idea as a regional transit option from Mississauga or Oakville to downtown maybe as an adjunct of GO Transit. There are a few more traffic jams along the highway for commuters from these areas so the time savings of a fast ferry may make sense. The Go Train line along the lakeshore that services Hamilton to Toronto is going to be electrified in the coming years making it faster and less polluting so I am not sure much government funding would go to the ferry idea though. I wonder how many days the Lake is too stormy for such a service as well. www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a77822fe-837e-4046-b113-4eb1150eaa05 |
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Post by Scott on Jul 4, 2007 19:36:23 GMT -8
That's an interesting idea. Do you know how much of a gap there is between the "mainland" and Toronto Islands? I remember an article in Canadian Geographic about Canada's "shortest ferry ride" between the island airport and Toronto.
Last year we stayed in Etobicoke for 3 days and one day took the bus to the end of the subway line and then went downtown on the subway. It took about 25 or 30 minutes on the subway I think. Maybe less.. there were a lot of stops and no scenery so maybe it just seemed longer than it was!
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 4, 2007 19:52:20 GMT -8
Where the ferry crosses to the Toronto Island is only a ship channel actually - so that is why it is so narrow. Less distance than across the middle of Active Pass. The Islands are in an arc shape so it forms the Toronto harbour. From Etobicoke where you got on the subway to almost downtown is wide open lake so nothing is in the way. The commercial part of the harbour is on the east side and there is a ship channel there too for the lakers and ocean going freighters to enter the harbour.
Yes 25 or 30 minutes would be correct. The subway you took only comes above ground twice for very short stretches. There isn't much to see on the other lines when it does come above ground either.
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Post by BrianWilliams on Jul 6, 2007 19:26:53 GMT -8
I'm not familiar with winter conditions on Lake Ontario.
I see that the Toronto Island ferries operate a restricted winter schedule (Oct-April), so the harbour must not freeze completely.
Longer suburban commuter trips might be less possible in winter, though, making a serious investment in ferries hard to justify. Current or former T.O residents, what can you tell us?
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Post by Scott on Jul 6, 2007 19:58:25 GMT -8
I'm not 100% sure on the winter service, but I'm quite sure that one of the ferries has some light ice-breaking capabilities.
late edit: I just looked up the information on the Ongiara (the one I thought was capable of sailing in ice). From what I could gather in a few minutes of "research" is that she was/is the ferry with the best ice abilities but they no longer use her when the harbour is frozen over. One site mentioned that when it gets too cold, they run buses to the islands through the airport.
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Post by Retrovision on Jul 6, 2007 23:52:34 GMT -8
Where the ferry crosses to the Toronto Island is only a ship channel actually - so that is why it is so narrow. Less distance than across the middle of Active Pass. The Islands are in an arc shape so it forms the Toronto harbour. From Etobicoke where you got on the subway to almost downtown is wide open lake so nothing is in the way. The commercial part of the harbour is on the east side and there is a ship channel there too for the lakers and ocean going freighters to enter the harbour. Yes 25 or 30 minutes would be correct. The subway you took only comes above ground twice for very short stretches. There isn't much to see on the other lines when it does come above ground either. |
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Post by BrianWilliams on Jul 7, 2007 2:57:19 GMT -8
The discussion of Toronto's idea should remind us in Vancouver-
We have two salt water inlets and a broad river embracing our city. We treat them mostly as obstacles, not assets.
Unlike Toronto, our waterways never freeze. The worst winter weather kicks up a little chop, that's all. We have used our assets a bit. The SeaBusses, of course; the False Creek ferries; and left from old days, Fort Langley's ferry.
Whoops, we are going to close the Albion-Fort Langley service once the Ears Bridge is built? Let's not.
Instead, we should encourage private operators to run as many passenger ferries as they're brave enough to try. West Vancouver to the city; Dollarton to downtown; Fort Langley to the industrial centres, like Annacis Island, with stops at road-ends all over Surrey and North Delta.
Car ferries are so much more costly, we might not get private ventures. Fine, we should try to reduce driving from home to parking lot anyway.
Gummint policy can help: toll the existing bridges. Add bus service to ferry landings; provide some park-and-ride space; and ..
Though it took 35 years to make the West Coast Express deal with CP Rail, try to get a similar service running on CN, connecting Langley, Surrey and North Delta with cross-river ferries and busses.
Not least, recapture our rights on ex-BC Electric Railway to passenger service from Chilliwack to New Westminster. Sold to ITEL 20 years ago, and then resold to Washington Industries, the old line has a covenant that requires the owners to provide for commuter service. Do it now.
Hmm, a costly but effective improvement: Re-string the 1910 wires and electrify the railway again.
There are a multitude of economic arguments. Petroleum prices peaked and declined, but gasoline is stuck at 1.10/litre, with no promise of dropping. 4 bucks a litre is in our near future.
Even if fuel was free, six new Port Mann bridges would not shorten traffic jams for long. Use our waterways, use our existing rail lines!
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Post by Scott on Jul 7, 2007 8:39:02 GMT -8
Couldn't agree more with Brian. The river was once the only "highway" we had - now it's just a problem that has to be crossed. Just think of all the developments, institutions, towns, and industrial parks close to the river's edge. The Airport, downtown Richmond, downtown Port Coquitlam, Mary Hill Industrial complex, the mills and casino in Coquitlam, Annacis Island, Steveston, Fort Langley, Maple Ridge, Deas Island regional park, Ladner, downtown New Westminster (skytrain), probably a RAV line skytrain station somewhere along the river, housing developments in South East Vancouver, industrial parks in South Burnaby and South Vancouver, River Road in Delta, Fraser Port lands, even the University of British Columbia. All these are either beside the river or a very short bus ride from the river. And most of them are awful places to drive to in the middle of the day.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 7, 2007 10:26:01 GMT -8
A follow-up article from today. www.thestar.com/News/article/233349Lake Ontario doesn't freeze in a normal winter. The inner harbour does but a few of the ferries keep running all winter. The Islanders use it to get to and from work. They live on Wards Island on the far right of the Islands. The airport ferry operates on the far left and that runs all winter. Thanks for posting the google map. There are tugs which can be used to break up the ice if needed. With the really milder winters though that may not be necessary for long. I would think that a fast ferry from West Van to downtown might work. |
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Post by BrianWilliams on Jul 16, 2007 19:59:43 GMT -8
Though we hardly need more persuasion about the fragility of car-based commuting, this morning (16 July) adds some ammunition.
The superb 6-lane Alex Fraser Bridge was crawling today - because a weekend road patch left a little bump on the northbound lanes.
Chaos! Cars, trucks and SUVs were backed up for miles into Delta and Surrey this morning. Thousands of litres of wasted fuel, exasperated people, lost hours of productivity and many tons of pollution. Just because a bit of asphalt wasn't tamped flat.
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