Yet another Federal Election

[Ferryman]

It's official now. There is going to be a Federal Election this winter Who here is going to be voting? (Going towards people old enough to vote) It's hard to say who's going to win this one. I think less people are going to be voting this time because the election date is in the middle of the Christmas Holidays, and so everyone is going to be busy travelling and whatnot.

[Political Incorrectness]

Made top AP story of the day. Paul Martin rejected.

[Balfour]

yay I get to vote in this one. hmm... The liberals are too corrupt and the NDP are idiots, and the Conservatives, well... we don't know what Stephen Harper will be like. Iw onder if we will see a Conservative government...

[Doug]

May I suggest Conservative? ;D

[Ferryman]

I'd go with Conservative if I was able to vote.....too bad this election isn't in nine months, so I could vote.

[Low Light Mike]

Chris: the election date will likely be in mid-January. There's a minimum amount of time between the dissolving of parliament and the next election date.

....and why doesn't it surprise me that Doug is voting for the Conservatives. Good old reform roots in the Fraser Valley.

Oh, and "Yes", I will be voting. I strongly believe in voting, and I encourage all eligible voters to be informed of their local candidate's position on the issues, and to vote !

[Ferryman]

flugelhorn said:

Chris: the election date will likely be in mid-January. There's a minimum amount of time between the dissolving of parliament and the next election date.

Ohhh, alright, that makes sense. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Balfour]

I'll definetly be voting in this one. I voted in the Municipal elections last week, and the guy I voted mayor won it. I wonder if the new mayors of both North Vancouver's will do something about imalgamation. Having the Districh of North Vancouver and the City of North Vancouver is quite silly.

Federally, I'm considering voting conservative, because I don't exactly trust the other 2 parties, which stand for corruptness and stupidity.

[Dane]

Liberal
Party of Canada

Vote informed. That's all I can say.

[Scott]

ferryman said:

I'd go with Conservative if I was able to vote.....too bad this election isn't in nine months, so I could vote.

Chris, you might be in luck. In all likelyhood we'll get another minority government and we'll have another election in a few more months!

[Dane]

Too true. If there were an election today, and CBC and CanWest poles are correct the house would hardly change.

[Scott]

I would actually like to see minority governments all the time. More parties, get some more proportional representation, force parties to work together, get more ideas, have more accountability... rather than the system now where even if a party has a minority government, they govern like they have a majority and it all falls apart.

[Fenklebaum]

Liberals: corrupt
NDP: idealistic idiots

This I will grant you. Having said all this, how might you describe the Conservative party? *I* would describe them as an amalgamation between fiscal conservatives and an extreme right-of-centre Western version of the Bloc Quebecois.

You're saying religious zealotism isn't a negative, Strong Skier?

[Curtis]

Even though I can't vote, If the Liberals don't win, NDP all the way, Harper sucks

[Scott]

That "beer and popcorn" comment from the Liberals was very funny. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, someone high up in the Liberal Party told the media that the 1200 bucks per year per child that the Conservatives would give to families for child care would be spent on "beer and popcorn" and not on child care.

It's partly true, yes, but coming from the Liberals it's like the pot calling the kettle black. What they're really saying (and what their atittude is ... and the NDP too for the most part) is we don't trust you with your own money, but you can trust us with your money! What a joke!!!


fenklebaum,

You're saying religious zealotism isn't a negative, Strong Skier?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I think anyone using this to attack the Conservative party is extremely desperate and quite uninformed.

That being said, why do so many people in a democracy have a problem with someone who takes their faith seriously being in politics? Sometimes it's as if, "if you're not part of the secular, liberal, mainstream, then we don't want to hear from you." I'm not involved in politics at all, but this is what I've observed from what usually goes on in this country.

[Alex]

admin said:

hat being said, why do so many people in a democracy have a problem with someone who takes their faith seriously being in politics? Sometimes it's as if, "if you're not part of the secular, liberal, mainstream, then we don't want to hear from you." I'm not involved in politics at all, but this is what I've observed from what usually goes on in this country.

I think most people aren't concerned about people taking their faith seriously and being in politics. What they may be concerned about is people taking their faith into their politics. And its a valid concern, because a strongly christian person will use their beliefs and morals and etc to make decisions, and a lot of people think this will lead to decisions contrary to their own personal beliefs, etc.

[Low Light Mike]

Politics & religion, all in 1 thread. That's a volitile mix. Be warned, I'm jumping in with both feet here:

John: I think that the Canadian attitude is a backlash against what's happening in the USA. We see so much idiocy done in the name of Jesus in the USA, from politics to TV shows (ie the Weaver family on "The Amazing Race").

In my opinion, the American Republicans have created a patriotic faith, part Christian and part USA-patriotism....and this scares the rest of the world. It certainly offends my faith. I read things in Matthew-5 such as "blessed are the meek" and "blessed are the peacemakers" and "blessed are the poor in spirit", and that doesn't remind me of George Bush or anything else that I see portrayed by the American media.

So I think Canadians equate Christianity with that image from the USA, not with what we see in the bible. Add to that the image in Canada of Albertans as rednecks, and consider what mainstream Canada did to Preston Manning & Stockwell Day, and you can see that Canadians see a possible stereotype and jump to conclusions.

As a Christian, I believe in certain non-popular values. And I don't really care if they are popular or not, because I don't need my beliefs to be mainstream. If the goal of a christian politician is to enact laws that place the christian moral code on the nation, I think that is wrong.....in the sense that you can't legislate morality and you can't legislate belief. The Emperor Constantine tried that in 300-AD, and I think that was a failure, and set the Christian church back, and created a culture of organized religion, which stifled legitimate christianity, eventually resulting in Martin Luther's reformation.

If a christian politician wants to create a God-fearing nation, then that must occur 1 person at a time, on a personal basis. A God-fearing nation must be a nation of people who fear-God....not by policy, but my heart-conviction.

So, I think a 21st-century Canadian politician can be a Christian, and obviously his/her faith will determine how he/she handles the role of being an MP. But when it comes to voting for policy, the Christian MP must remember that he/she serves a diverse group of constituents, and must try to represent them all.

A tough job, that I would never want to have.

[Scott]

Agree!

[Political Incorrectness]

Yes, for some reason I do not know why but US politcians could do a 720 degree turn (aka two 360's) and then shout something saying that decision is dumb and flip out over nothing. I do not know why that is, but it gets really dumb. Just a few days ago after the FAA was reducing regulations for sharp objects that did not pose a threat, one democrat flipped out and was completely mad. The US has a new title, the "Idiodic Nation".

[NA]

So true Ultra Walker about Bush.

[Fenklebaum]

I have been away, my apologies. Christmas, family, what have you...

John: It was not my intention to offend you, or to 'attack' the Conservative Party of Canada. You will note I did heap abuse on all of the parties, not just the Tories. That being said, I would like to acknowledge your statement that my 'attack' was 'desperate and uninformed'.

I make it a point NOT to talk about something I am uninformed about. You'll notice I don't post that frequently around these parts. I try not to reiterate already belaboured points, nor do I base any post of mine in mere speculation. I consider keeping oneself well-informed not only one's duty as a Canadian citizen, but also as a human being.

With regards to 'desperate': You're absolutely right. I am desperate. Extraordinarily so. And that's unusual, seeing as how I might be best described as a quasi-anarchistic follower of Hunter S. Thompson. I'm not the type who'd embrace nationalism, but I seem to be doing so more and more lately. I happen to adore my country. I think Canada is inherently flawed, but I still am fiercely proud of being a Canadian. During my teenage years, I have tried, somewhat ineffectually, to suppress a growing sense of frustration with what I percieve as a global social regression. During my younger days, it was, to quote the famed Star Trek charecter Khan Noonien Singh, "a time of great ambitions, of great... aspirations". I was taught to treat everyone with respect, to treat them as I would like to be treated. Our society was progressive; we looked for that next hill, to overcome it.

Our world seems to have said to itself that 'we have done enough, we can rest now'. I do not hold to that.
Perhaps my desperation simply stems from the typical mold of adolescent cynicism... I'd like to believe otherwise. It may very well be that my spirit, alternatively, is, in a sense, kindred with Che Guevara's; that the battle against injustice will never be over, that I might be simply comfortable with a cause. I think, to a degree, this is true.

I felt I should say this.

Ultra Walker: Your post - brilliant. I agree with you on practically all points, and I will therefore simply state that I agree.

I am not uninformed. I am passionate.

[Scott]

Fenklebaum,

I don't want this topic to degenerate into political arguments, and I'm not a Conservative or a huge supporter of them (I liked the Reform Party when it was the Reform Party... but I still wasn't involved) and I don't care much if you or anyone else attacks them on this forum. I simply take exception to you describing the party as "religious zealots", and I think to do so IS uninformed, and political rhetoric. To say that some in the party are, might be correct, but the majority aren't.

[Fenklebaum]

Would it be political rhetoric to paint the NDP as idealistic idiots, or the liberals as a few italian accents short of a mafia rally? Or labelling the greens as a bunch of tree hugging airheads? Because, with the exception of the greens, I used those labels too, if I'm not mistaken.

I have been known to exaggerate in my time. Once or twice anyways.

To say that everyone who votes for the New Democrats is someone who should get over the 1960's would be a mistruth. Yes, some should. So should some liberals, conservatives, greens, marijuana party members (oy, won't touch that one), bloc quebecois... But many have moved on with the times. (For the record, I wish I lived in the 60's)
To say that everyone who votes for the Liberals is a scumsucking criminal who steals lollies from babies... well, that might (just maybe, mind) be an exaggeration, no?
To say that everyone who votes green is 'one toke over the line' might also be an exaggeration.
And to say that close to a third of the population of Canada are fanatical right wing fundamentalist bible thumping Jesus fearin' Zion searching suicide belt wearing Christian yahoos might also, just maybe, be a slight exaggeration. Very slight. No, really, just a titch. No, HONEST

These are my exaggerations.

Having said that, the values the Conservative Party (oh, how I love that word refooooooooooorm!! Oh dear Lord, I can't believe I just referenced Royal Canadian Air Farce. I'm so sorry, everyone) espouses ARE more in line, admittedly, with mainstream Christianity, and to a certain degree, Islam. THAT being said, I don't think the grassroots are saying "We must build up this party in the name of Jehovah and smite the infidels!!!"

I have no qualms with MP's being religious. Quite frankly, I envy those with faith. (a topic for another occasion) The fact is, I do have qualms with mainstream religion playing a role in the foundation for a party, or party platform. Ours is a secular society. It IS my perception that the grassroots of the Conservative movement in Canada has allowed their faith to unduly influence the political landscape in Canada. It bothers me, and I will not waiver from that position.

My gross exaggeration was not a result of being uninformed, nor was it political rhetoric. It was an exaggerated opinion.

[Scott]

Fenklebaum, thanks for explaining... I think I still need to get used to the Fenklebaum style of expressing oneself;)

cascade, that's an interesting perspective of Canada. Does the fact we're 10% of the population of the USA have anything to do with it? It's interesting that we're the "poor" cousin of America, when I think we're doing better than them on the whole. Unless someone surprises us, I think we'll be waiting a few more years for a ... "popular" leader. It will also be hard with a minority government, which is quite likely.. since our system isn't used to working under a minority government. And with four fairly strong parties in Parliament, it doesn't seem like things will change for a while. But of course, politics isn't very predictable sometimes...

[Low Light Mike]

John: I'm trying to think of who some up-and-coming charismatic politicians might be, who could be similar in magnetism to the late P.E.T.

An Albertan westerner is unlikely, as Ontario & Quebec would likely not follow a westerner (see Stockwell Day, Preston Manning).....not that they had magnetism.

So who in central-Canada has the mojo? I'm trying to think of intelligent, credible pop stars (or other famous people)....here's some ideas:
- Gord Downie of Tragically Hip. He's got attitude and looks serious.
- Rick Hansen: more of a diplomat than a politician. He'll likely be G.G some day.
- Ed the Sock: lots of potential....a possible winner ;D

Maybe we Canadians are too intelligent and free-thinking to be led by a charismatic leader. Is it likely that Canadians could collectively be followers of any charismatic leader? We are not a nation of robots, so a universally-admired leader is unlikely, in my opinion.