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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 16, 2005 17:45:10 GMT -8
I am not happy about people advertising on a certain forum because it gets annoying after awhile like with everyone knows who. If you want to get people on your forum advertise somewhere else besides here because this is a delicate froum. Cascade is right, we are all one big family but, we have lost some members because of some people acting out of order.
If you want to advertise a forum, do it somewhere else and stop bugging us members and consistant guests. We have lost Ian and Nick, which were great members. Brian used to post regularly, now he posts sparingly. I do not know if it is because of vocations or not but there is something making people leave.
When people leave, it hurts, because we are literally one big family. It used to be peaceful and now it is not. That is why this forum has lightened up on traffic. Why do you think we tried and promoted Jordan for a moderator? We wanted to improve this forum and make it look better. I wanted people to come to this forum and because John wants to stay hands off. I am going to say this now, to me, hands off does not work at all because we have 15 active members. Now that we have some mods, it has been better.
My goal would have been to draw people who have left to come back and maybe try to promote some Europeans to come. However with all that has gone on I have been unsure.
Bottom line: We need to get some thing straightened out and not have all the fights. We should instead have debatable topics like we did a month or two ago. Debate had come back and I like good debates. When this stops it gets boring. There is room to improve and we can work in a positive manner to make things better without need for fights. If you want to fight send it over PM's not make a big bilboard out of it.
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Post by Balfour on Dec 16, 2005 18:55:35 GMT -8
I think you have some very good points.
I'd like to do everything in my power to improve this forum as much as possible. May be this forum is getting to the point where we need PB Support Forum style moderation. It's strict but it works very well. It includes a warning system, and temporary banning for offence of any rules. Flame wars are quicly stopped with locking of threads/removal of threads.
As for design I think we can use some darker colours too. Background images would be nice along some header images too. PB is actually fairly customizable if you know how to use it properly.
I'll post more as I come up with ideas.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 16, 2005 18:58:07 GMT -8
Newsbar?
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Post by Balfour on Dec 16, 2005 18:58:39 GMT -8
we could have that too
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Post by Mac Write on Dec 16, 2005 20:07:56 GMT -8
You really can only custimize images/colors/header/footer that's it. You can't change the look of the post bit, homepage etc. Still extremely limiting (ok for a free board though). Serious color change is a very good idea, and have been saying that for a long long time.
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Post by Scott on Dec 16, 2005 23:23:54 GMT -8
And as I've been saying for a long time, there are several options for colors on this forum.
Background images take time to load.
The newsbar is fairly pointless in my opinion. Any news turns into a discussion pretty quick.
This forum wasn't created to create a ferry "community" or "family". I recognize that one has evolved over time. If someone wants to formalize it in some way, that would be great, but I don't have the time or the desire to do that.
Proboards Support has 67,000+ members. We have just over 100.. and much fewer regular members. So no, we don't need the same number of moderators. If this forum were run like that (or take the other ferry forum for instance if you haven't been to Proboards Support), it would be like having a hockey game with more referees than players.
Debates and arguments are often part of a good discussion. If that scares you, that's too bad. I'll stop a thread if it starts getting into personal attacks... other than that, either discuss it or ignore it.
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Post by Balfour on Dec 17, 2005 19:59:27 GMT -8
well, I think we have enough mods, but I think some might bebefit from the warning system that PB uses.
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Post by cascade on Dec 27, 2005 5:48:27 GMT -8
To keep members on a forum, it has to keep asking - debating ideas on the subject of Ferries. This forum has the potential to become great, to the point that newspapers, and media outlet's - would turn to the forum to find out what people think of the service provided, by either BCFS or any other private operator. What the public think about the ACT - and things like the fuel increases.
Threads get boring, with one word - or a single line answer. Question needed to be asked - and debated, and to do that you more than a single word answer.
Looking back - in the last year - there have been some really great debates / conversation going on - about a range of subjects - some linked to Ferries other not so linked to the subject matter at hand...
Customizing the forum, is just that - customizing, will it bring back members - I doubt it
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 27, 2005 13:13:29 GMT -8
Well then, why have we not had debate? After one month of just posting rubbish after another post of rubbish we need to do something to make this forum not seem like a cigarette lounge. After boring posts, the forum gets boring, pointless arguments are not worth posting. Customzing the forum is just to make it appear like it was put together and not just put up and used. That is how I view it.
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Post by cascade on Dec 31, 2005 6:45:24 GMT -8
You can not have a debate with yourself - so we need more than a single word answer.
Maybe as an idea - we come up with a list of subjects and these form the areas of debate.
I sometimes wonder - if a post about a vessel late in leaving the terminal is worthy of a thread - listing - is it? I don't know.
I wish we could have more people from the actual work force - of BCFS - so more of an insiders view.
There is lot's to talk about - with the way the ACT and the contract that BCFS has with the province and the service they are contracted to provide - but it seems some / most members are not really interested in what will or might happen to the service or the type of deal that has been done on there behalf.
Like the fuel surcharge, increases in fees for bookings, parking eating... Possible dropping of routes. The Province been required to purchase back the vessels at BCFS net book price, the same sort of deal with the Terminals. There is lot's out there to talk about, but I can't have these talks with myself and it appears no one else is really interested in what could happen to the service - "just blame" the government of the day I guess.
Does that answer your quesation about the forum ?
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Doug
Voyager 
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 31, 2005 18:05:19 GMT -8
CASCADE! DON'T MENTION THE ACT IN FRONT OF ME!  Just kidding of course.... |
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Post by cascade on Jan 3, 2006 7:46:01 GMT -8
One day I will sit Doug down and read him a bed time story - it is called the "ACT", and one day he will thank me for the time I took out to inform him of the facts of the Ferry World....
Happy New Year - Doug....
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Post by Starbucks Queen on Jan 3, 2006 10:26:40 GMT -8
I think, this forum is very informative but in my opiniom, the problem is, that many here, are on the forum and same time in a hurry, and therefore not giving answers, or posting in a very detailed, and good way - or when it´s getting too complicated some either do not want to write anything about it at all but instead start another poll or complain that the buffet is closed without even getting a comment. I mean, if I was onboard and the buffet closed - to make it for example worthy to post it AFTER ALL - we´d at least like to know WHAT do the upgrades include !!!! Ask the crew.... get information, etc. But alot of things on this forum are just done half-assed because instead of sticking with one topic, and get into it, it´s kept superficial which I do find a real pity, somehow. OK this is just my opiniom. I am ready for taking all your slagging-off, booooh´s and various other comments  |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 3, 2006 18:47:54 GMT -8
I usually wimp-out from some of the more technical discussions on mechanics, and on legalities and financing. ie. - I don't have anything meaningful to say re RAD-drives and engine types. Guys like HL-Teen and others know way more than me about that. - I don't have much meaningful to say about the ACT, or contracts or fuel-hedging....because I don't know very much about that, and I don't really want to invest the time to increase my awareness re this. So I read Cascade's posts and bit-by-bit, my awareness increases a bit. So I shy away from some of the more complicated topics.....but I read them all. I likely comment more on the non-ferry items, and the "soft topics", and of course I jump all over the political & pop-culture & free-speech issues. And sometimes it's the urge to write comedy that keeps me posting. Overall, I usually find that my point of view is pretty one-sided at first, and it's the reading of other people's posts that lets me see the "big picture" on most of these ferry issues. That's why I enjoy this forum. I also enjoy the $100 per month that John pays me for my moderator-duties. (always try to tell 1 lie in each post.....) |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jan 3, 2006 18:52:37 GMT -8
The comedy is why you are here then eh? I allways like the comedy especially on that other thread that you have contributed. Some of us have time on our hands to do research but some of us do not have the time and do not have time to read such long posts like the ones from Cascade. (not saying it is a bad thing, just saying that sometimes we want to get to the point) I am one of those people who likes to get to the point, then expand the topic.
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Post by cascade on Jan 4, 2006 9:37:32 GMT -8
What surprises me about some of the members on the forum - is that a few have a fantastic grasp of the facts regarding what makes a ferry work - and some don't.
As for the rules - again some just don't understand nor do they even want to understand the rules & law in which the ferry company operators in - around.
So in given a one line answer - which is easier for me - I find that I need to explain what and why I came to the result - as the info is there for everyone to read - some choice to read - some don't ....
There have been a number of key things that has happen within the last 12 months which will have long term bearings on the Ferry fleet and it operations - which should interest people who like Ferries. It also has impact on job's on the island that this fleet service...so again I wonder why the concerned people have not made more of a thing about the events which have happen...instead of saying nothing...
So to keep this forum "fresh" and alive - we need to ask question - search - debate for answers... Any way that's my view - sorry for the long answer...maybe better if I didn't post and let the forum go about it's normal way - like what you had - therefore members would come back... I don't know...your call....
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Post by Starbucks Queen on Jan 4, 2006 15:24:39 GMT -8
Exactly, Cascade ! You bring it to a point. There are many things that you can not find out about the ferries by just travelling on them - alot of background info is around and this forum here is great to get that info, and share some too. I am for example interested mainly in various European ferry companies but yet in the overseas one too, and some people here do really take a good effort and provide informative posts !
A bit of humour and things are fine, but let´s not over-do it because there are other forums for this sort of stuff, for sure.
About "time" - time is relative here we say: If you need time - take time. I do have usually between 1 and 3 hours time for the pc when I work - which is usually 14 hours or something apart from freetime. But I think, it´s worth to THINK before posting, and spend the bit of time that is there, for doing a good post rather than just scribble something superficial.
What a writer should always take in mind is, that OTHERS will read this post, and that others would like to get something by reading it - no matter do we talk about photos, travel-reports, news or historical stuff. If you keep posts so, that they are a pleasure for others to read, then members will always come back.
I know, it´s not always so easy I had a good portion of misunderstanding too but at least trying would be something. But so far, that forum is good, thanks to some people who really are into the topic and who are really putting a whole lot of energy into their posts and willingly share their knowledge with the rest of us here.
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Post by kylefossett on Jan 7, 2006 12:50:50 GMT -8
i have a lot of info to do with the ferry fleet that at this time i can not post. watch the province and sun newspapers in the next couple of weeks. when this info is released to the public i will be able to go indepth in what i know. at this time i am silenced as to passing it on. if my informant sees it on here before it is made public then that will be the end of my in side knowledge
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 7, 2006 17:29:51 GMT -8
Hey Kyle, do you and your insider meet on a foggy night on a lonely bridge.......dressed in trenchcoats and fedora hats, each walks from one end of the bridge, to where you meet in the centre. You exchange briefcases, exchange glances, turn around, and back to your own side.
Just kidding, but spy movies come to mind. I appreciate your contribution to this forum.
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Post by kylefossett on Jan 7, 2006 17:56:22 GMT -8
yes we do, i don't really trust him so i have a guy hiding in the dark with a rifle and if i give a signal he will take out my source.
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jan 7, 2006 19:13:41 GMT -8
Cascade:
I am aware that the Act does state that routes must be contracted out, but BC Ferries has made it clear that it will bid itself on numerous routes. Or as the Commissioner would say, they are "defending their territory"...and it seems like a pretty eligible statement, as BC Ferries seems to be "slaved" by this "Act". If the government wanted to make this an independent company, they shouldn't have made the Act so stingy on the rules.
Routes (how many?) have to be auctioned every "performance term"...I forgot how often that was. All routes are not just for sale, as you have stated not once, but a quite a few times. More subsidies may create competition with both other operators and the parent company which may lead to better service, but just remember about factory prices versus consumer prices. Isn't it true that everyone in the business, now the "new" subsidy, has to make a profit (as well as the parent company)? Doesn't that mean prices will rise? I read that subsidies are usually in the best interest of the public (not quite on the West Coast as this is an essential marine link), but why, if they are the ones to suffer? Perhaps you could fill me in.
As for this forum. I like it, and I like it even more as John has made some changes. Fortunately, it has improved since we created the new board.
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Post by cascade on Jan 9, 2006 9:20:31 GMT -8
Doug,
You are starting to understand parts of the ACT - plus the contract that BCFS has with the Province.
Part of this contract - is that they BCFS - must look at each and every route and see what's best of the route.
If they (BCFS) can't operate the route and make a commercial return on there investment - even with certain subsides then they can make an offer to drop the route to the Ferry commissioner.
Now a new operate can be either a "Subsidiary of BC Ferries" for that route, or they can be a "Franchise Holder" of that route, or they can be a "Direct Competitor" of BC Ferries on that route, or they can start there own route, which in return can allow BC Ferries to also compete on the same said route that you have started.
Don't believe all the media spin been put out by BC Ferries about the routes and looking at alternative suppliers for that route. If you read the last 9 pages of the second fuel surcharge request - there is in clear english - from the Bond rating company a very simple and clear view on the ACT & the contract that BC Ferries has. (Non-union - media / bcfs spin)
I know for a fact that two major ferry companies had a look at the routes and had there legal people go over the ACT & Contract. Yes there are only a few routes making serious money - which don't have any Federal or Provincial subsides on them, but the main and only problem is the usage of the terminal. The unique loading system that BCFS has at its terminal are not suitable to any European Ferry company. They would have to make major engineering / design changes to there vessels which are just not cost effective.
BCFTA - are the actual owners of the terminals - which they lease back on a individual license to BC Ferries. They can grant a license to any other operator - to operate from that terminal - along side BC Ferries. How this will work in reality I don't know.
But looking at what BC Ferries has done on one terminal so far - makes me think that they will spin off the daily management of each major terminal to a separate company which in turn sells it's services to the other ferry operator.
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jan 9, 2006 17:05:58 GMT -8
So how often is a performance term and how many routes do they have to look at each performance term? Do they have to do this continuous for 60 years, or however long the contract is in place?
One thing I haven't quite figured out is what happens after the 60 year agreement...?
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Post by Mike C on Jan 9, 2006 17:51:41 GMT -8
That's interesting... Agreements are (sometimes) fun to watch, because you never know what'll happen. We shall see... ...in the future... There are a series of points in this thread that I have never before considered in other Forums. I will pay close attention to the posts I see in the near future.  |
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Post by cascade on Jan 10, 2006 9:20:19 GMT -8
Doug,
The time period is 5 years - which we are in how. The next term which starts April 2008 will be for 4 years only. Inside these terms BCFS are required to review all there routes - to make sure they "offer" the best - commercial - return for there investment on that route.
There are not that many routes and they can all be done in the 5 year time period - just that BCFS are dragging there feet a little bit now.
I think the real fire works will start around Jan - April 2008 when the new fare structure is announced and the Fuel surcharges are dropped, plus a number of routes will be put up for dropping.
What are classed as "major" routes - the 5 terminals and 3 routes that make around $60M each year - when they go to do a study / review on these routes - - they should have the Super C's in place and running - make sense that they will be able to under cut any possible private operator - plus increase there profits on the routes.
What I have been saying many times - is that the terminal structure at the 5 main terminals are so unique to BC Ferries - that no other ferry operator in the World will be able to use them - unless they make major changes to there ferries. So these routes - operated from these terminals are safe - BUT think about what WMG is looking at - with the FastCats - smaller terminals - faster turn around times - Internet bookings ect... Things are opening up on the West Coast of BC.
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