Is the Garibaldi IIs Future Growing Dim?

[Ferryman]

First the Squamish Sawmill closed down, and was demolished early this year. I've heard rumours of students dropping out of school to go work at the mill because of the good pay.

But now that's gone. Today I believe, all of the Workers at Woodfibre were fired, and I'm not too sure when the official closing date is though. Woodfibre used to be owned by Doman, but after they went bankrupt not too long ago, Western Pulp ended up taking over.

That leads me to the question I put in the title. The route the Garibaldi II operates under, is the only way to Woodfibre.

But of course now this mill is going to close, I'm not sure if this ferry will operate anymore. It is owned by BC Ferries, but not run by them. That's why you don't see it in the fleet list. It is a sister ship the the Nimpkish which is the only sister still in the Ferry fleet, the other sisters are the Nicola and the Albert J. Savoie. There isn't really much car deck space left on the Garibaldi II, they've enclosed much of the car deck with more passenger space. You can travel on the route for free as well. Seeming I'm obviously the closest to this ferry, I will make an effort to do a trip on this ferry over the winter holidays, which started today. It's a real shame the pulp mill is closing now, there was alot of history at Woodfibre. One of my friends dad grew up over there, and from what I've seen of Woodfibre, there was basically nothing there. Just a few appartment buildings, and of course the mill. There are lots of popular trails that start from Woodfibre, and make their way up the Mountains, with Glacier Blue Lakes. Anyways, it will be interesting to see what happens with the community of Woodfibre, if there's still anyone living over there. Squamish no longer has the bad reputation for grubby mill workers with no education. Instead, rich young investors purchasing property cheap, and selling it for more than what it's worth for the 2010 games.

[Koastal Karl]

Couldent they convert her back and take out the extra passenger space on the car deck then BC Ferries could use her on one of their gulf island routes. How old is the Garibaldi anyways???

[Ferryman]

She's the same age and the Queen of Newwestminster and Nanaimo...41

[Curtis]

Yeah the Albert J Savoie was built in 1961 the Nicola followed I belive in 1962 and then the Garibaldi II in 1964 then the Nimpkish was the youngest sister built in 1973

[Scott]

Yeah, I'd say her future is pretty dim. I heard the news reports about the mill yesterday, but they kept saying "the Squamish pulp mill" and I didn't know that was what the Woodfiber Mill was referred to as, until you mentioned it here. It's too bad they can't make it work. I'm glad I was able to stop by there a few weeks ago and see the ferry for myself for the first time.

As for the Garibaldi II's future... what does BC Ferries need another 16-vehicle ferry for? They have the Nimpkish, which is rarely used, and not very useful on any route. Every time they use her, she replaces a ferry that has twice her capacity, and they have to warn everyone to expect delays. However, according to Transport Canada, Garibaldi II is still owned by BC Ferries, so I guess it wouldn't cost them much add her back into the existing fleet.

[QTeen]

I think they might be turning the mill into housing estates, that is what happened to one of my schools in Hertfordshire, England.

Now being turned into a housing estate, half the playing field has gone because of new houses going up, but no school to go to.
AWFUL!

[Curtis]

admin said:

However, according to Transport Canada, Garibaldi II is still owned by BC Ferries, so I guess it wouldn't cost them much add her back into the existing fleet.

Yeah she must have a lease from the sound of things and the Langdale Gambier Keats Island route I belive was leased or contracted out

[Doug]

They would not turn the mill into a housing estate. I heard they are planning on converting it into a lumber mill.

[Retrovision]

Although the 2004/05 Lloyds list of shipowners lists the Albert J. Savoie as being owned by BCF even though we all know it's been sold, it also lists the following as being currently (as of publication of the most current list (04/05) available at the Ctrl Brnch of the library) owned by BCF:

-Albert J. Savoie
-Garibaldi II
-Nicola
-Nimpkish

As we know, there is a shortage of ships in the BCF system, but I think that applies more so to major ships. Between the Nimpkish and the former Atlantic J. Burr being shipped from the south, I doubt there is a need for that range of ships, especially when considering more northerly routes as the smaller single enders seem to have been designed for (pg. 66 (regarding the Nimpkish) of "Ministry of Transportation and Highways - Inland and Coastal Ferries" (1981)). I do think, however, that the freeing up of the Garibaldi II will be welcomed by BCFS in any case, that is to say as a relief vessel, or for resale/scrap value.

I didn't copy the "Lloyds Register of Ships" page regarding the Garibaldi II, but here is Lloyd's info on one of her sisters:

Nicola
ex Cortes Queen-1981
ex Quadra Queen-1969

Built: 1960
Allied Shipbuilders Ltd. - North Vancouver, BC - Yd. No. 108
Loa 33.53 / Br ex 11.92 / Dght - / Lbp - / Br md - / Dpth -
Welded, 1 dk

Ferry (passenger/vehicle) / Passengers: unberthed: 134 / Cars: 16

2 oil engines driving 2 FP propellers
Total Power: 500kW (680hp) / 10.0 kn
-General Motors
--2 x Vee 2 Stroke 12 cy. 108 x 127ea. 250kW / 340 bhp
---(new engine, made 1973, fitted 1974)
--General Motors Corp., Detroit Diesel Allison
---Div.-Detroit, Mi.
AuxGen: 2 x 10kW 110/220V 60Hz

[Ferryman]

I've just found out some dates about Woodfibre today after talking to some people. The Woodfibre Pulp Mill going to still be running from now till the day of the Federal Election (Jan 23rd). Ironic? ... Also the mill will be mothballed until March 10th. So I guess the Garibaldi will stick around for a few more months until the mill is then finally shut down for good. It will be interesting to see what happens with the real estate up here...

[Retrovision]

Especially considering that that mill is/was Squamish's largest employer.

[ProudCanuck1644]

ferryman said:

I've just found out some dates about Woodfibre today after talking to some people. The Woodfibre Pulp Mill going to still be running from now till the day of the Federal Election (Jan 23rd). Ironic? ... Also the mill will be mothballed until March 10th. So I guess the Garibaldi will stick around for a few more months until the mill is then finally shut down for good. It will be interesting to see what happens with the real estate up here...

January 23, 2006 is the last day that the boilers are certified to run by the provincial government. They were to expire November 18, but they got an extension from the boilers branch of the government to continue to run while pulp was still at a good price and another effort to save the mill. This has been a long time coming. I would not be surprised if the Garibaldi is there for a longer period of time than past the march date.

Just to clear up a few other things here:

- Doman owned Western Pulp. When Doman went bankrupt Western Pulp Limited Partnership was aquired by Brascan (holdings company). Brascan operated it as Western Pulp Limited and sold its sister mill in Port Alice (recently in the news, but better news). Brascan tried to turn things around and sell it.

- The millsite could not be turned into housing without a massive... and I mean massive environmental cleanup. Woodfibre has been there since 1914.

- The chances of Woodfibre being turned into a lumber mill is "slim to none". Western Forest Products (owned by Brascan) will focus on its lumber operations. With the current softwood situation with the US, new mills are not being built. To many are vacant throughout the province as it is. Furthermore, to build a brand new lumber mill on a site that is not easily accessible for employees and rail lines for export is unreasonable.

The most likely option is that the mill equipment, assets, pressure vessels and tanks will be sold for scrap. Some of the equipment is "fairly new" in pulp & paper terms and could be sold. Things like the Recovery Boiler would likely be dismantled and reassembled at some other mill. Hopefully in BC.

[Doug]

Quite saddening to hear. Oh well, I've heard stories of these mills opening up again. Perhaps it will.

[Ferryman]

Yeah, it's really to bad that it's all closing down now. But it's not like they were that suprised, they've been threatening to close down when Domans was on its last legs. Well, the positive way of looking at it is, looking forward to the cleaner air in the summer when the Squamish winds blow up the sound.

[QTeen]

ferryman said:

Yeah, it's really to bad that it's all closing down now. But it's not like they were that suprised, they've been threatening to close down when Domans was on its last legs. Well, the positive way of looking at it is, looking forward to the cleaner air in the summer when the Squamish winds blow up the sound.

That is a good point, I wonder what will happen to it, I think it is a beautiful place to build some more houses, I mean, there is a nice little ferry, it's free, and you can see the mountains, and the crystal waters of Howe Sound.
Beautiful I say, I would like to live there.

[Ferryman]

Well the Ferry was only Free because the company running the Pulp Mill payed for it. Nothing is free...but it would be nice. Woodfibre isn't the only place along that side of the Sound you can live at, there are several cabins parallel to Defence Islands, which is right by Anvil Island. You can see Anvil Island from Horseshoe Bay because it is the tallest Island sticking out of the water as you look down the Sound. But of course these people who own these houses have their own private vessel to get around. It would be nice to be able to a cabin over there once and a while, but not to live there. There is no waterlines or electricity over there, and obviously no stores or anything. So there would be daily trips to the Mainland for supplies, and on top of that, trying to earn a living. Too costly for me, and not my cup of tea. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy camping for a week, tops. But not year round, year after year...
Seeming I have two weeks off, I'm thinking about actually going over to Woodfibre just to see exactly is over there, and to get a ride on the Garibaldi II. I nearly have a feeling that the District of Squamish will try and save the Garibaldi II, and to keep it running, as it runs on a fairly historical route, and quite a few people grew up over there, so I'm sure they would still like to be able to go over there. This town is good at keeping things running, like the major rebuild of the Royal Hudsons boiler, and is set to run next spring hopefully. Harry, seeming you like trains, especially steam engines, I fully recommend you come and see the Hudson when it is running again. This train is huge...

[brian williams]

First, to our guest "Canuck" if you are one of the workers displaced by the Woodfibre closure:

I am sorry, and a bit angry. When Rayonier built that plant 50 years ago, there was a promise that the mill would operate in perpetuity. The Government of BC gave Rayonier a timber lease, sufficient to supply saw logs for cash income, and chips from tied mills or in trade.

Perhaps the government betrayed the mill, or the managers traded their assets for quick money. It is hard to tell, because in the 1980's, ownership changed several times.

What did not change were the workers. Skilled, dedicated people who invested their lives at Woodfibre. Sure, the pay was good, but the work was hard.

Woodfibre families raised three generations of kids on Howe Sound. Long before leisure-class folks discovered Whistler, Woodfibre families were supporting the whole Squamish Valley with their wages.

[Retrovision]

ProudCanuck1644 said:

ferryman said:

I've just found out some dates about Woodfibre today after talking to some people. The Woodfibre Pulp Mill going to still be running from now till the day of the Federal Election (Jan 23rd). Ironic? ... Also the mill will be mothballed until March 10th. So I guess the Garibaldi will stick around for a few more months until the mill is then finally shut down for good. It will be interesting to see what happens with the real estate up here...

January 23, 2006 is the last day that the boilers are certified to run by the provincial government. They were to expire November 18, but they got an extension from the boilers branch of the government to continue to run while pulp was still at a good price and another effort to save the mill. This has been a long time coming. I would not be surprised if the Garibaldi is there for a longer period of time than past the march date.

Just to clear up a few other things here:

- Doman owned Western Pulp. When Doman went bankrupt Western Pulp Limited Partnership was aquired by Brascan (holdings company). Brascan operated it as Western Pulp Limited and sold its sister mill in Port Alice (recently in the news, but better news). Brascan tried to turn things around and sell it.

- The millsite could not be turned into housing without a massive... and I mean massive environmental cleanup. Woodfibre has been there since 1914.

- The chances of Woodfibre being turned into a lumber mill is "slim to none". Western Forest Products (owned by Brascan) will focus on its lumber operations. With the current softwood situation with the US, new mills are not being built. To many are vacant throughout the province as it is. Furthermore, to build a brand new lumber mill on a site that is not easily accessible for employees and rail lines for export is unreasonable.

The most likely option is that the mill equipment, assets, pressure vessels and tanks will be sold for scrap. Some of the equipment is "fairly new" in pulp & paper terms and could be sold. Things like the Recovery Boiler would likely be dismantled and reassembled at some other mill. Hopefully in BC.

Any guess on future uses of the land? From the sounds of it, there are no services on the west side of Howe Sound from Port Melon to Squamish; I wonder what good the land will be to the SLRD (atleast I think that's the acronym for Squamish's regional district) without a good source of revenue.

[NA]

My neigbours work at woodfibre. I heared in the deal, it stated It could never open as a pulp mill again.
I also heard that some other company was going to by the mill for 15 million but then this company was going to pay 30 million for the pulp supply (and maybe to close it down too).
I heared that the ferry workers do not get a severance, only two weeks notice. The employees only get 2 weeks pay for the first ten years they worked there then for 1 week after that for there severance.

My Dad lived in Woodfibre when it was a town.

[QSaanich]

What is going to happin to the Garibaldi II when it is retired it is going to be sad when she is.

[cascade]

What's happen to the Timber Leases ? Have they run out?

Are they selling the "raw" log's direct to Japan, as there Mill's are a lot more efficient than BC Mills' ?

Who now owns the Mill is it the New Zealand company Fletcher Challenge?

The Garibaldi is under lease, so either it goes back to BCFS or the Province - I think the Province with have it back on there books - in due course.

Now moving on - why not a Fast Ferry working out of Squamish to downtown Vancouver ?

[Ferryman]

Well, Woodfibre is on the downward spin now, as there was practically no steam coming out of the mills chimneys. There is currently a freightor out there right now, probably loading the extra materials to ship to other pulp mills. Of course the ferry is running till March, so then by that point, the Garibaldi will most likely be on the BCF list....again. So that leaves us with how many spare minor ferries? 4?......Tachek, Nimpkish, JAB, and GII.