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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 14:45:21 GMT -8
Kahloke also has a 145 pax license, but also a 194 one with about 26 AEQ ( officially 30 ).
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Post by kevins on Feb 16, 2016 21:10:01 GMT -8
The Safe Manning Doc doesn't list any real certification requirements. What qualifications do the crew on the BSC have? So if there is an accident to what standard are the Operators going to be held to? Does the vessel have radar fitted or any other equipment that might require some level of training or certification? Do they know the various lights and shapes as per the Col Regs or it is since the waterway is closed to all traffic they only need to know how to get to the other side? Just wondering..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 22:55:00 GMT -8
I think the old man is the only licensed crew member onboard.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 8:50:17 GMT -8
No certifications required on a cable ferry ( yet ). According to BCF the crew, consisting of deckhands only, is trained above regulatory requirements, but one operator already produced a hard landing with the school kids on board.
Proposed changes to Sect. 206 of the Marine Personnel regulations would require:
>Master and officers required on board; >Qualifications requirements for the Master, Chief Mate and Watchkeeping Mates;
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 10:43:21 GMT -8
The Deckhands on the BSC are required at a minimum to hold a Marine Emergency duties certificate, and hold a valid STCW Basic Safety (MED A1 and MED B2) and Survival Craft Rescue Boats training (MED B1) qualification. BC Ferries prefers that Deckhands hold a Bridge Watch Rating Certificate. The BSC has two radars and an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS). The Transport Canada ECDIS certificate course is 30 hours long - it's a fair bet that anyone in the glass house on the BSC holds this qualification, and it's all you need to operate and ECPINS or ECDIS as it's not that complicated. Taking a course is one thing for an operator, having gained command experience ( which is necessary in emergencies ) as a certified officer, another. Maybe there are cue cards on the bridge, like at Needles fliphtml5.com/zige/nvsa/basic
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Post by yak on Feb 17, 2016 10:57:23 GMT -8
The Deckhands on the BSC are required at a minimum to hold a Marine Emergency duties certificate, and hold a valid STCW Basic Safety (MED A1 and MED B2) and Survival Craft Rescue Boats training (MED B1) qualification. BC Ferries prefers that Deckhands hold a Bridge Watch Rating Certificate. The BSC has two radars and an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS). The Transport Canada ECDIS certificate course is 30 hours long - it's a fair bet that anyone in the glass house on the BSC holds this qualification, and it's all you need to operate and ECPINS or ECDIS as it's not that complicated. Taking a course is one thing for an operator, having gained command experience ( which is necessary in emergencies ) as a certified officer, another. Maybe there are cue cards on the bridge, like at Needles fliphtml5.com/zige/nvsa/basicThere's nothing unique about having critical response procedures on the bridge of a vessel organized as a response card or as a checklist. The BCF Fleet Operations Manual lays out the template for the lists used on the ferries (presumably including the Connector).
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Post by Curtis on Feb 18, 2016 18:27:37 GMT -8
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 18, 2016 23:14:30 GMT -8
I see from the profile page that the barge thingy has a 'heated lounge'. Migawd, will Mike Corrigan ever stop pampering the rabble? First, there's drinkable water on the Nimpkish, and now, heat on the barge? What's next, valet parking every time you drive on board?
Took my first ride yesterday afternoon, after being off Hornby since the middle of December. Lousy day to travel since it was monsooning, so I didn't spend a lot of time out of my car. Doesn't much matter. It's a barge, hauled along on cables. Not much to see. I did notice the noise in the reasonably ample lounge; guess that comes from having the machinery on the cardeck. It seemed to go very slowly- hard to believe it was moving anywhere near the advertised 8.7 knots. Perhaps the slow speed was the reason why docking was imperceptible... not the slightest bump.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 15:11:43 GMT -8
Through a "Freedom of Information Request" I got copies of the Quinitsa's "Wheel House Log Book" yesterday, so we are able to compare wind speeds recorded at official stations like Chrome, reported by BCF types from the Thingy and those recorded by the captains of the Quinitsa.
It was confirmed, that the BSC has not sailed in wind above 25kts in Baynes Sound and BCF's claim that the BSC is "storm proven" up to 46kts is bogus. It is also quite obvious, that the anemometer display on the Thingy bridge shows km/h instead of the indicated kts. No wonder BCF reported 45+ when the Quinitsa recorded 25 kts, which equals 46km/h. That happened twice. On media day, the BSC claimed 30 ( without white caps being seen ), while the Quinitsa showed 15kts. 16kts equals 30km/h.
Hopefully somebody will have time to re-calibrate the thing, so entries into the BSC wheel house log ( there seems to be one )have some resemblance with reality and the crew will learn to judge the REAL wind speed they are facing.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 25, 2016 21:11:55 GMT -8
Through a "Freedom of Information Request" I got copies of the Quinitsa's "Wheel House Log Book" yesterday, so we are able to compare wind speeds recorded at official stations like Chrome, reported by BCF types from the Thingy and those recorded by the captains of the Quinitsa. It was confirmed, that the BSC has not sailed in wind above 25kts in Baynes Sound and BCF's claim that the BSC is "storm proven" up to 46kts is bogus. It is also quite obvious, that the anemometer display on the Thingy bridge shows km/h instead of the indicated kts. No wonder BCF reported 45+ when the Quinitsa recorded 25 kts, which equals 46km/h. That happened twice. On media day, the BSC claimed 30 ( without white caps being seen ), while the Quinitsa showed 15kts. 16kts equals 30km/h. Hopefully somebody will have time to re-calibrate the thing, so entries into the BSC wheel house log ( there seems to be one )have some resemblance with reality and the crew will learn to judge the REAL wind speed they are facing. Thanks for the digging, Bernhard. So we still have no true test of the barge's ability to navigate in a storm. Oh well... winter's not over yet.
5:05 sailing from Buckley Bay this afternoon, the barge sounded its horn fifteen times as a sizable fishing vessel steamed north toward the cables. I was wondering if the other vessel's skipper was ignorant of the cable situation, or if perhaps he was just being a jerk, since he did eventually turn back, right at the buoys marking the crossing. Also wondered how many times this busy summer season the ferry might stop, as it did today, to allow uncooperative vessels to pass.
Others have wondered, given the well known world wide problem of sea creatures ingesting small particles of plastic garbage, just how much cable sheathing is being shed on a regular basis, since all three cables are clearly rusty and degraded.
On a small, positive note; a crewman told me they've put 54 vehicles onboard, using the centre area fore and aft of the deckhouse. That represents an improvement on Quinitsa, where a full load is usually 46-48, in the four lanes. I've seen many sailings where three or four cars are left behind, so this does help. I also noted that whatever concerns there are about the barge's service speed capabilities, it feels like an express compared to the Kahloke, which operates these days at five or six knots.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 22:08:46 GMT -8
Regarding the wind speeds - obviously there is some spin on the part of BCF, but I'm wondering if the possible difference in the anemometers have anything to do with it... I guess it could be trivial, but I remember a case last summer where I logged a 6 knot true wind in the South Shore Canal (according to the repeater on ECDIS, when in fact the trees were bent sideways - close to 40 knots according to the raw data on our anemometer). Not undermining the judgement of the crew, but it might simply be human error (Execs lying to themselves?) and not consciously speaking in bad faith.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 25, 2016 22:51:50 GMT -8
Regarding the wind speeds - obviously there is some spin on the part of BCF, but I'm wondering if the possible difference in the anemometers have anything to do with it... I guess it could be trivial, but I remember a case last summer where I logged a 6 knot true wind in the South Shore Canal (according to the repeater on ECDIS, when in fact the trees were bent sideways - close to 40 knots according to our anemometer). Not undermining the judgement of the crew, but it might simply be human error (Execs lying to themselves?) and not consciously speaking in bad faith. SC... if 'propwash' is accurately reporting the results of his FOI inquiry, one can only conclude that we are talking misrepresentation on the part of BC Ferries... consciously so. Rather troubling.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 22:59:15 GMT -8
Regarding the wind speeds - obviously there is some spin on the part of BCF, but I'm wondering if the possible difference in the anemometers have anything to do with it... I guess it could be trivial, but I remember a case last summer where I logged a 6 knot true wind in the South Shore Canal (according to the repeater on ECDIS, when in fact the trees were bent sideways - close to 40 knots according to our anemometer). Not undermining the judgement of the crew, but it might simply be human error (Execs lying to themselves?) and not consciously speaking in bad faith. SC... if 'propwash' is accurately reporting the results of his FOI inquiry, one can only conclude that we are talking misrepresentation on the part of BC Ferries... consciously so. Rather troubling. Even if BCF is consciously spinning the wind item over and over, I don't see what difference it makes at this point, in the case of the cable ferry project as a whole.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 26, 2016 0:03:25 GMT -8
SC... if 'propwash' is accurately reporting the results of his FOI inquiry, one can only conclude that we are talking misrepresentation on the part of BC Ferries... consciously so. Rather troubling. Even if BCF is consciously spinning the wind item over and over, I don't see what difference it makes at this point, in the case of the cable ferry project as a whole. You don't ? Really ?
I would suggest that the point of the opposition to this project has been that it was misconceived from the beginning, and that the gathering of evidence along the way shows that BC Ferries and the Liberal government cannot hide behind the defence of "well, this is new territory... we couldn't foresee all this stuff". There are things that cannot be argued with: the size of the boat locks Denman and Hornby into essentially the same capacity over 65 years, the job losses on Denman, the degradation of the cables with the effect on the environment, the wrong guess on crew size. Other factors are still to be determined, such as the overall savings, and the dependability in severe weather. Maybe, overall, the critics will be wrong, and this will be a dependable service, and on an economical footing. But 'propwash's pointing out the bogus wind values may add worthwhile evidence that BC Ferries was fudging the results, if things get murky.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 15:26:57 GMT -8
There was no sustained wind reaching 100km/h or 54 kts in the Straight of Georgia all winter so far. Gusts of 100km/h and up to 109km/h were reported on Dec. 10th and 12th. A captain on the BSC took the attached photo, date, time and location unknown. Judge for yourself, True Wind Speed 53.8kn. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 15:33:20 GMT -8
On Dec.11th a member of the FAC posted this on FB:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 15:45:33 GMT -8
There was no sustained wind reaching 100km/h or 54 kts in the Straight of Georgia all winter so far. Gusts of 100km/h and up to 109km/h were reported on Dec. 10th and 12th. A captain on the BSC took the attached photo, date, time and location unknown. Judge for yourself, True Wind Speed 53.8kn. In all fairness, I can't tell what units the Furuno repeater is displaying. The Furuno RD-33, the unit in the picture can display wind speed in kn, mph and m/sec. The unit on the BSC is set to kn as photos posted by Allograph on allograph.ca/riding-the-beast/ indicate. Please note, that the new "Captain Caldwell" on the BSC obviously reported the wind speed to BCF's head office. "Captain Behrens" a veteran on the bridge of the Quinitsa noted down 25kts for the 10am sailing ( 30 earlier in the morning ) on Dec. 10th when the BSC ventured out a bit after 10am and returned to the shelter of BB. One would assume that a "Captain" can judge wind speed without having to look at a display. Scary!
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 26, 2016 17:06:21 GMT -8
Clearly the speed shown is knots... but not being a mariner, I have to ask if that refers to sustained or gusts?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 17:31:54 GMT -8
Clearly the speed shown is knots... but not being a mariner, I have to ask if that refers to sustained or gusts? Most captains indicate gusts ( if happening ) in the wheel house log. What triggered a display of 53.8 is a mystery. There was no sustained wind that high recorded all winter by a weather station in proximity. Yes Chrome reported a gust at 54kts at 9:40 am on the 10th, the only one that high all winter. Are we to believe that a gust that high happened to the BSC in the sheltered waters of Baynes Sound, while the Quinitsa next to it experienced 25, max. 30kts?? Captain Behrens did not indicate gusts. The same thing happened on Dec. 3rd, when some TC folks were on board, BCF reported 45kts from the BSC, while the Quinitsa reported a steady 25kts in the morning and 15kts in the afternoon. I have no explanation, I simply report what the Quinitsa's log entries show, which I requested to shed light on these discrepancies. However, I wrote to Deborah Marshall a month ago and asked her to verify the calibration of the anemometer, but she did, as usual, not reply. I believe the issue got enough attention now, we should have an explanation soon......or not??
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 26, 2016 18:09:20 GMT -8
Clearly the speed shown is knots... but not being a mariner, I have to ask if that refers to sustained or gusts? Most captains indicate gusts ( if happening ) in the wheel house log. What triggered a display of 53.8 is a mystery. There was no sustained wind that high recorded all winter by a weather station in proximity. Yes Chrome reported a gust at 54kts at 9:40 am on the 10th, the only one that high all winter. Are we to believe that a gust that high happened to the BSC in the sheltered waters of Baynes Sound, while the Quinitsa next to it experienced 25, max. 30kts?? Captain Behrens did not indicate gusts. The same thing happened on Dec. 3rd, when some TC folks were on board, BCF reported 45kts from the BSC, while the Quinitsa reported a steady 25kts in the morning and 15kts in the afternoon. I have no explanation, I simply report what the Quinitsa's log entries show, which I requested to shed light on these discrepancies. However, I wrote to Deborah Marshall a month ago and asked her to verify the calibration of the anemometer, but she did, as usual, not reply. I believe the issue got enough attention now, we should have an explanation soon......or not?? In fairness to Ms Marshall, I really don't think we can expect her to involve herself in minutiae like the calibration of ship anemometers. I suppose that if I were BC Ferries, I probably would have given up on people's challenges, and let the whole scenario just play out as it will.
If the Quinitsa captain was not reporting gusts but sustained speeds, then I suppose it's possible that on that tempestuous morning there were a few rogue blasts of 50 knots or more... if that's what the barge's gauge was referring to. In any event, we still have not seen it tested in a full day's service in a gale.
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Post by Dane on Feb 26, 2016 18:14:52 GMT -8
I'm feeling a bit lost in this wind discussion. If it's really windy, the BS Con won't sail. Like every other route in the system. I take it the issue is at what wind speed does service shut down? Because a lot seems to be focused on extreme peak events, or alternatively stated, less than a day a year of concern? Maybe I'm lost in this?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 18:57:54 GMT -8
We, the local residents and future users of the Thingy were told by BCF that the cable ferry has been "storm proven" to 45+ kts. We know it never sailed in more than 25 kts and are naturally concerned. Actually the Thingy somehow managed to avoid any stronger winds all winter. As a Hornby Islander we will be especially affected by service interruptions. Sure, the Hornby ferry has in the past shut down due to weather long before the Denman ferry ( which actually only shut down due to weather twice in the last decade or so ). But if the Denman ferry shuts down while the Hornby ferry is operating, we will face overloads to just get back home or get stuck on Denman. I am not confident about service reliability in the future.
It is time for me to withdraw from this forum, the interests of a "ferry enthusiast" and a user depending on that service are just not the same.
Thanks Flugel Horn, it was fun while it lasted.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 26, 2016 19:49:54 GMT -8
Here's the latest official word on the BSC project. - from Management's Discussion and Analysis report
Read that last sentence a few times...
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 26, 2016 22:59:09 GMT -8
We, the local residents and future users of the Thingy were told by BCF that the cable ferry has been "storm proven" to 45+ kts. We know it never sailed in more than 25 kts and are naturally concerned. Actually the Thingy somehow managed to avoid any stronger winds all winter. As a Hornby Islander we will be especially affected by service interruptions. Sure, the Hornby ferry has in the past shut down due to weather long before the Denman ferry ( which actually only shut down due to weather twice in the last decade or so ). But if the Denman ferry shuts down while the Hornby ferry is operating, we will face overloads to just get back home or get stuck on Denman. I am not confident about service reliability in the future. It is time for me to withdraw from this forum, the interests of a "ferry enthusiast" and a user depending on that service are just not the same. Thanks Flugel Horn, it was fun while it lasted. I don't believe that the recent flow of this thread justifies concerns about 'ferry enthusiast' interests taking precedence over more serious issues. In fact, I take exception to that remark. I live most of the time on Hornby, and I have my cable concerns as well.
Kather Anne's measured remarks, above, also add needed perspective to the issue. In the end, people have the right to participate or not, given the value they see in the conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 23:30:47 GMT -8
In the end, people have the right to participate or not, given the value they see in the conversation. Since the discussion has gone from the BSC to anemometers/wind reporting I will add this off-topic post: Agreed - this is a public group, not a high-end club... We are no different than a Yahoo comments section, in the sense that anyone can register and chip in. We can't start pointing fingers back at the group, for something that now six people have chipped in on. It's strange that everyone is now interested in anemometers... However, it is nice to hear measured remarks, from members with more knowledge than myself in the field.
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