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Post by Dane on May 17, 2015 16:14:08 GMT -8
I am actually shocked they still have her? Anyone heard any gossip or seen something official nom a disposition plan (or lack thereof)? Keeping a SeaBus just kicking around cannot be a cheap undertaking, and if I am not mistaken there's never three boat service? That means they have a 100% spare ratio, which TL got in trouble for in other areas of their fleet somewhat recently (leading to some bus retirements and SkyTrain fleet reallocation).
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 22:47:39 GMT -8
I am actually shocked they still have her? Anyone heard any gossip or seen something official nom a disposition plan (or lack thereof)? Keeping a SeaBus just kicking around cannot be a cheap undertaking, and if I am not mistaken there's never three boat service? That means they have a 100% spare ratio, which TL got in trouble for in other areas of their fleet somewhat recently (leading to some bus retirements and SkyTrain fleet reallocation). I was told by a Captain that they are keeping her at least until the results of the plebiscite are out - as you're probably aware they have no new funding to replace her in the near future should the referendum pass. Given the policy since 2009 of having a spare vessel, I guess we'll be seeing her around for a little while. However, should "No" take the referendum, she'll probably be out pretty quick. It is an interesting situation. |
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 21, 2015 18:03:36 GMT -8
I have a few problems with the Burrard Otter II the safety announcements which has been fix and problem that I need photos to describe. I am posting these photos to show the other problem on her:  Burrard Otter II by Blue Bus Fan, on Flickr  Burrard Otter II by Blue Bus Fan, on Flickr |
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Post by WettCoast on May 21, 2015 18:28:02 GMT -8
AC, nice photos but I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say. Are you referring to how the vessel appears to be 'off level' fore & aft, or is it something else?
I gather the vessel is coming toward you and that you were at Lonsdale Quay? Was the vessel braking in this photo (in other words applying reverse thrust to slow down)?
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 21, 2015 19:05:30 GMT -8
AC, nice photos but I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to say. Are you referring to how the vessel appears to be 'off level' fore & aft, or is it something else? I gather the vessel is coming toward you and that you were at Lonsdale Quay? Was the vessel braking in this photo (in other words applying reverse thrust to slow down)? I believe when it is waver the waves could hit the windows and come over the front end to hit the windows. |
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Post by WettCoast on May 21, 2015 20:35:12 GMT -8
AC, it looks to me like they were braking the vessel rather hard causing the forward end to dive into the water which in turn caused the substantial waves that you see on both sides. My question would be:
- do you see this routinely?
- why the need to brake hard in the first place? I would expect them to reduce forward thrust well off shore from the terminals and then to coast slowly into the berth with a minimal need for reverse thrust.
Perhaps others who know the SeaBus service better then I can shed some light here...
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Neil
Voyager 
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Post by Neil on May 21, 2015 21:44:03 GMT -8
I don't understand why anyone would think these photos indicate a problem.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 7:14:36 GMT -8
I don't understand why anyone would think these photos indicate a problem. Neil is quite right... this is simply a design flaw on the Otter II. Yes, she was probably braking when those pictures were taken, but it's quite common for her to be dragging her bow through the water. Onboard it's also quite common to see lots of water splashing above the window, and the boat is not surfing any wave.... I have a hard time believing that that's fuel efficient. The Breeze also has this flaw, albeit to a much lesser extent. |
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Post by timmyc on May 22, 2015 12:14:46 GMT -8
I've also noticed the excessive bow spray on the Otter II and it was evident at the beginning, middle, and end of the voyage.
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Post by WettCoast on May 22, 2015 13:25:08 GMT -8
I've also noticed the excessive bow spray on the Otter II and it was evident at the beginning, middle, and end of the voyage. Is this happening regardless of which end is 'the bow'? One would think that if this is happening much of the time it is impacting fuel efficiency... |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 13:49:08 GMT -8
I've also noticed the excessive bow spray on the Otter II and it was evident at the beginning, middle, and end of the voyage. Is this happening regardless of which end is 'the bow'? One would think that if this is happening much of the time it is impacting fuel efficiency... Yes. |
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Post by Mike C on May 22, 2015 15:01:51 GMT -8
I don't understand why anyone would think these photos indicate a problem. Neil is quite right... this is simply a design flaw on the Otter II. Yes, she was probably braking when those pictures were taken, but it's quite common for her to be dragging her bow through the water. Onboard it's also quite common to see lots of water splashing above the window, and the boat is not surfing any wave.... I have a hard time believing that that's fuel efficient. The Breeze also has this flaw, albeit to a much lesser extent. If I recall, TransLink has been somewhat vocal about the design issues they have had with the Breeze, and this was one of them. Both ships have seating further forward than the original sisters, so the bow is weighed down. The Breeze also sits very high in the water, a fault in the design that resulted in the roof of all four SeaBus berths being rebuilt. This also resulted in the ship being more subject to the effects of wave action, and splashing over the bow. This problem was mitigated on the BOII, although if Cheese's pictures are any indication, the hull is still operating very inefficiently. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 15:53:17 GMT -8
Neil is quite right... this is simply a design flaw on the Otter II. Yes, she was probably braking when those pictures were taken, but it's quite common for her to be dragging her bow through the water. Onboard it's also quite common to see lots of water splashing above the window, and the boat is not surfing any wave.... I have a hard time believing that that's fuel efficient. The Breeze also has this flaw, albeit to a much lesser extent. If I recall, TransLink has been somewhat vocal about the design issues they have had with the Breeze, and this was one of them. Both ships have seating further forward than the original sisters, so the bow is weighed down. The Breeze also sits very high in the water, a fault in the design that resulted in the roof of all four SeaBus berths being rebuilt. This also resulted in the ship being more subject to the effects of wave action, and splashing over the bow. This problem was mitigated on the BOII, although if Cheese's pictures are any indication, the hull is still operating very inefficiently. Well, wave action in Vancouver Harbour is relatively low. I've never noticed the Breeze rock more than the others myself. The Breeze's higher freeboard indeed costed an extra $400 000, but she doesn't collapse forward like the Otter II does when slowing down. At least that's what I've observed on my visits to Lonsdale Quay and rides on both vessels. Something worth mentioning is the Otter II does have a lower-friction paint than the Breeze, which is supposed to give her a 15% edge on fuel consumption... no word yet if this drag has negated any savings yet. I'd imagine they're still working out teething issues on the Otter II, as she's only been in service for just under six months. |
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Post by WettCoast on May 22, 2015 16:49:55 GMT -8
Does the Otter II have the same issue as the Breeze with respect to high window placement such that when seated in the passenger compartment you can't really see forward unless you are in a half-standing position? I recall that the original sisters give seated passengers excellent views when seated. No need to stand up.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 22, 2015 18:13:56 GMT -8
Does the Otter II have the same issue as the Breeze with respect to high window placement such that when seated in the passenger compartment you can't really see forward unless you are in a half-standing position? I recall that the original sisters give seated passengers excellent views when seated. No need to stand up. I believe they fixed that problem with the Burrard Otter II. |
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Post by timmyc on May 23, 2015 13:03:02 GMT -8
Does the Otter II have the same issue as the Breeze with respect to high window placement such that when seated in the passenger compartment you can't really see forward unless you are in a half-standing position? I recall that the original sisters give seated passengers excellent views when seated. No need to stand up. They fixed the window height issue on the Otter II. The bottom edge is now lower than the top of the seat backs. Here's a pic I took that illustrates this: i.imgur.com/kwWpINH.jpgIncidentally, here's a long shot of the Otter II on its southbound journey before reaching the midpoint - you can see the spray from the extended bumpers striking the water if you view it at full size: i.imgur.com/QJxfB2P.jpg |
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Post by WettCoast on Jun 19, 2015 9:25:54 GMT -8
Copied over from the Cruise Ship dept. ....
Seven Seas Navigator (IMO 9064126), seen @ Canada Place, Vancouver on 17 June 2015. On the right of this photo you can spot the Burrard Otter (the first) heading back to North Van. I was on my way to the airport & had just gotten off her ( BO, that is). Both the original 1970's SeaBus sisters were in service when I crossed the harbour in the early afternoon on Wednesday. I saw the same thing on Monday, June 8th. So, was it just coincidence or are their some issues with the new boats that result in the old boats seeing more service hours that one might expect? I made three SeaBus crossings while in Vancouver, and did not see the BO II in service, at all.  © WCK-JST by JST, on Flickr
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Post by roeco on Jul 24, 2015 13:41:26 GMT -8
Was their not a proposal at one time to run a seabus type service up to Squamish??
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Post by Dane on Jun 16, 2016 10:33:30 GMT -8
Today there was a $700 million funding announcement for Translink; I watched a lot of the live event and there was several mentions of SeaBus. These mentions were mostly for a "new" SeaBus. I assume based on past announcements that this actually means three boat (versus two) peak service and two boat Sunday service all year (versus one boat except summer). While a third SeaBus could be purchased the fleet is currently four with one of the old boats having just had a substantial refit / upgrade
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Post by Ferryman on Jun 16, 2016 16:44:51 GMT -8
Today there was a $700 million funding announcement for Translink; I watched a lot of the live event and there was several mentions of SeaBus. These mentions were mostly for a "new" SeaBus. I assume based on past announcements that this actually means three boat (versus two) peak service and two boat Sunday service all year (versus one boat except summer). While a third SeaBus could be purchased the fleet is currently four with one of the old boats having just had a substantial refit / upgrade As a somewhat frequent user of the Seabus, it's nice to hear of a third seabus being added for service. Personally I'd like to see more frequent of service at night and on weekends. Having only one seabus at running at this day in age seems unacceptable these days with thr growing population, especially with the push to discourage people from driving in downtown Vancouver. The Burrard Otter has actually been sailing today, and only seems to see least one day per month of service these days. So I wonder if there is still a plan to retire that seabus still? Assuming probably not anymore since Translink has probably grown to appreciate having a spare seabus available when needed ever since the Burrard Pacific Breeze came into servic and now that a third bus is going to be pushed into service. The Burrard Beaver was the one that supposedly recieved a substantial upgrade, however it appears to me that not a single penny was spent on the interior accomodations...a disappointment for me to see. Not even a fresh coat of paint anywhere to freshen things up a bit for at least one of the two, forty year old workhorses. But, it's of course more important to keep things up to snuff down below and out of the public eye. But Translink seemed to pump up the public a bit on the work that was to be done to the Beaver, which is probably what surprised me the most, the last time I traveled on the Beaver a couple of weeks ago. |
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Post by Dane on Jun 16, 2016 17:46:28 GMT -8
Throughout the day I've been following the official announcements as they are released from various government organizations with their hands in the pie. Looks like a new SeaBus will be ordered. The Singaporean build sure seems to be doing well, wouldn't be surprised to see a carbon copy.
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Post by timmyc on Jun 16, 2016 18:13:52 GMT -8
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Post by Ferryman on Jun 16, 2016 18:53:19 GMT -8
I have a few problems with the Burrard Otter II the safety announcements which has been fix and problem that I need photos to describe. I am posting these photos to show the other problem on her: Burrard Otter II by Blue Bus Fan, on Flickr Burrard Otter II by Blue Bus Fan, on Flickr Sorry to re-hash an old topic from over a year ago, but from my point of view, this is a bit of a design flaw. With today's announcement and the possibilities of a carbon copy of BOII coming, I'd hope they address this issue. In those pictures, thd BOii isn't doing a "full astern" manoeuvre. None of the seabuses seem to have that much power to ever produce that much wash. Now I don't know that for sure because I don't know the manoeuvring characteristics, but I've watched this vessel make full crossings dozering across the harbour like this. She is simply trimmed down by the bow to the point where the forward strake is digging into the water. This has got to be grossly inefficient for the vessel. Whenever the passenger loads are slightly lower, everyone sits at the bow of the vessel. This pushes the bow down. Agreed that the newer seabuses have passengers sitting further forward, but this seems to be exacerbated on this particular vessel, since it's the only one that can be seen dozering through the water like that. Any sort of wake or wave, and then there's suddenly spray coming over top of the bow as if you're in heavy seas. It's alarming for some who aren't expecting it, since there's always a reaction whenever I'm onboard and see water splashing the windows. Just last night I observed Burrard Otter 1 and Burrard Otter 2 sitting side by side at the maintenance dock for the seabuses in North Van, and observed the behaviour of both vessels to compare. The old BO1 sat still in her berth, while BO2 was bobbing up and down quite noticeably like a toy in a bath tub. I can only speculate that the newest seabus has a smaller hull footprint compared to the older sisters, making her less buoyant. I'm not saying it's unsafe, but it just means that it the amount of weight that trims the vessel is far less than the older sisters. Other times I've been on BO2 even in dock while everyone is sitting at the forward end, and the vessel was trimmed so heavily by the bow that the aprons were starting to lift off the deck on one side, creating a tripping hazard with the difference in height transversely across the apron. You just don't see this on the other vessels. Perhaps the Canadian built Seabuses are overbuilt? Anyways, that's my two cents. I just hope that's something that's considered with the new vessel(s) in the future designs. |
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Post by northwesterner on Jun 16, 2016 20:43:17 GMT -8
Sorry to re-hash an old topic from over a year ago, but from my point of view, this is a bit of a design flaw. With today's announcement and the possibilities of a carbon copy of BOII coming, I'd hope they address this issue. In those pictures, thd BOii isn't doing a "full astern" manoeuvre. None of the seabuses seem to have that much power to ever produce that much wash. Now I don't know that for sure because I don't know the manoeuvring characteristics, but I've watched this vessel make full crossings dozering across the harbour like this. She is simply trimmed down by the bow to the point where the forward strake is digging into the water. This has got to be grossly inefficient for the vessel. Whenever the passenger loads are slightly lower, everyone sits at the bow of the vessel. This pushes the bow down. Agreed that the newer seabuses have passengers sitting further forward, but this seems to be exacerbated on this particular vessel, since it's the only one that can be seen dozering through the water like that. Any sort of wake or wave, and then there's suddenly spray coming over top of the bow as if you're in heavy seas. It's alarming for some who aren't expecting it, since there's always a reaction whenever I'm onboard and see water splashing the windows. Just last night I observed Burrard Otter 1 and Burrard Otter 2 sitting side by side at the maintenance dock for the seabuses in North Van, and observed the behaviour of both vessels to compare. The old BO1 sat still in her berth, while BO2 was bobbing up and down quite noticeably like a toy in a bath tub. I can only speculate that the newest seabus has a smaller hull footprint compared to the older sisters, making her less buoyant. I'm not saying it's unsafe, but it just means that it the amount of weight that trims the vessel is far less than the older sisters. Other times I've been on BO2 even in dock while everyone is sitting at the forward end, and the vessel was trimmed so heavily by the bow that the aprons were starting to lift off the deck on one side, creating a tripping hazard with the difference in height transversely across the apron. You just don't see this on the other vessels. Perhaps the Canadian built Seabuses are overbuilt? Anyways, that's my two cents. I just hope that's something that's considered with the new vessel(s) in the future designs. Thanks for the analysis Ferryman . Its amazing what a trained eye can observe. Former member Pete pointed out something similar with the Baynes Sound Connector when she first entered service. I wonder how naval architects can engineer these vessels and still have these issues right out of the gate. |
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Post by Dane on Jun 16, 2016 22:17:05 GMT -8
Interesting observations, perhaps a third variant new SeaBus awaits. It'll need to go out to tender, anyways. The Burrard Pacific Breeze has been very maintenance intensive I was quite recently told, not a great replacement to the old boats which just keep going with minimal work.
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