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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 11, 2011 7:41:10 GMT -8
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Post by cobblehillian on Feb 11, 2011 9:55:52 GMT -8
"That process requires that BC Ferries submit information such as its operational costs, capital investment plans and ridership levels to the independent ferry commissioner."
Shirley Bond
Is this a situation of the fox guarding the hen house? The regulation of public services provided by private or public enterprises can be tricky business.
Justice Emmet Hall in his exhaustive 1970's examination of grain transportation on the prairies was beholden to the railways, one a Crown Corp., CN, and one a private company, CP, for data on which to base his decisions on a future rail network that are still reverberating today. Mr Hall's job was to re-design grain transportation based on a modern system of large regional grain terminals, unit trains, and a simplified rail network. Country elevators were being closed and the famous low cost subsidized Crowsnest Pass rate for grain was to be eliminated. A lot of additional costs for farmers and a lot of additional profit for the railways were riding on his work.
Mr Hall concluded that the railways had devised very confusing and complicated costing data on their branchlines , and since they were masters of their own house had some power to influence decisions by their summation and presentation of data. In other words, it was very hard to contest the folks who not only generated the data, but also collected,and presented it.
There is a similar situation in the Tar Sands of Alberta where the the provincial government has allowed the companies to be "self-policing" with regard to environmental and river water quality regulations. As a consequence some data is suspect, and the conclusions drawn may be erroneous.
None of the people or companies involved in these matters are acting criminally or illegally, (I'm leaving ethics out of the discussion) but they are acting out of strong self interest and have stronger motives than public service. If all these guys are good capitalists as David Hahn seems to suggest he is, public service is incidental to something more important, profit. BCF will present its data consistent with it's motives and goals.
In this context are the specifications for BCF service and financial data robust enough to give the commissioner what he needs to rule in the public interest? Is the commissioner's mandate such that he is required to act in the public interest and does he have the power to compel BCF to produce specific data in formats that he may specify?
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 11, 2011 18:18:20 GMT -8
Shirley Bond said...
I heard her make these claims on CBC Radio a few days ago.
Regarding customer satisfaction surveys... Surveys typically are written to elicit certain responses. An approval rating of 91% today versus 82% in 2003 - is this really a meaningful statistic?
I am sure that Nanaimo residents wishing to return home from Vancouver on week day evenings after 7:00 PM are impressed by the improvement in service. My guess is the surveys are not passed out at such times.
Then there is the on-time performance claim she hangs out there. Performance may have changed only because schedules have been adjusted to put allow more slack during the day and permit catching up when they get behind. For example, look at the Route 2 summer schedule as compared to the same route during the rest of the year.
As for new & improved ferries - do people think that none of that would have happened had it not been for Gord Campbell's Grand Plan?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 16, 2011 19:25:21 GMT -8
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Post by Scott on Feb 16, 2011 19:53:28 GMT -8
The non-budget you mean? I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case for the coming few years, but I also wouldn't put too much stock in this budget as I think everyone is expecting a new budget when the Liberals get their new (same-old) leader.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Feb 16, 2011 20:02:36 GMT -8
:)while digesting today's Times-Colonist news, I can hardly imangine any gov't allowing the possible fare increases that may be coming to the north coast, and the island mainline routes will be cushoned from the reality of a so called private models. A privatized company would always find profits on the two main routes, but few of the other routes would prove lucrative, and they would operate as the private insurance companies do, skiming off only the gravy runs! mrdot.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Feb 16, 2011 22:21:58 GMT -8
This budget means nothing. As the Globe and Mail reported today, there's something like a billion dollars of discretionary spending built into it for the new premier to use. We also still have to wait for the completion of the new ferry contract process.
So, still some time before the threatened Wrath of Hahn can be visited upon the small islands and the north.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 16, 2011 22:36:04 GMT -8
So, still some time before the threatened Wrath of Hahn can be visited upon the small islands and the north. Brief interlude of creative striving, inspired by Neil's post: BC Ferries without radar - " Search for Dock" ------------- I just finished reading more on the BC Budget and I've realised the same point that Neil has posted; that there's a big discretionary-spending allocation in the budget. d'oh.
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Post by Scott on Feb 19, 2011 21:10:59 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 18, 2011 12:03:24 GMT -8
Here's a link to a BCFS FOI response, that has a January 2010 letter from BCFS to the BC Gov't warning them of the upcoming term-3 high-fare increases. - just in case anyone was wondering how long the BC Gov't has been aware of the need to increase the ferry-subsidy for the upcoming term-3. - page 8 on this PDF foi.bcferries.com/2010-015-responsiverecords.pdf
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Post by Scott on Mar 31, 2011 18:15:14 GMT -8
www.vancouversun.com/Ferries+fares+could+jump+cent+Transport+Lekstrom+says+hikes+high/4537204/story.htmlThis has been leading the news headlines this evening. Today BC Ferry Commissioner announced that he had approved fare hikes over the next 4 years. Increases would be 18% on major routes and 37% on minor routes, spread out over 4 years. Another interesting note is that the new Transport Minister, Blair Lekstrom, had this to say: Apparently BC Ferries has 30 days to appeal, and the government also has some time to review everything and make changes.
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Mar 31, 2011 18:40:53 GMT -8
Please tell me Parking Rates arent going up too??? It's already expensive enough.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 31, 2011 20:48:18 GMT -8
I've moved John's post about the Sun article here, because the story is about the ongoing Term#3 process. Here is a link to the BC Ferry Commissioner's 19-page decision document www.bcferrycommission.com/BCFCOrder1102PrelimPT3PriceCaps_copy.pdf- This is just another part of the back-and-forth process that started in October 2010 and ends in September 2011 (and then takes effect in April 2012). Some highlights from this report today: - Route 3 is now included with the 3 major routes (1,2,30) as a new route-group. Now read this:
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Apr 1, 2011 6:27:22 GMT -8
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/03/31/bc-ferries-fare-increases.html BC Ferries gets 18 to 37% rate increase Price cap would spread increases over four years. BC Airplanes could be allowed to raise its rates by more than 37 per cent on northern and minor routes and nearly 18 per cent on major routes over a four year period, starting in April 2012. The price cap, which limits annual increases to 8.23 per cent on northern and minor routes and 4.15 per cent on major routes over four years received preliminary approval from the B.C. Airplane Commission, which controls fare increases, on Thursday morning. Those increases would amount to an increase of 17.7 per cent and 37.2 per cent in total over the four years, because of the compounding effects of the annual increases. The public has until June 30 to submit comments on the proposed price cap. The fare increases on the major routes between the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island and the Sunshine Coast are roughly in line with projections from BC Ferries, but much less than the annual fare increases of 12 to 14 per cent on minor routes and up to 26 per cent on northern routes originally sought by BC Airplanes. BC Airplanes says it has no choice but to raise fares or decrease services on the remote routes, but the Airplane commission has directed it to look for cost saving measures in order to keep them within the price cap. The news comes the day before BC Airplanes raises fares by 3.38 per cent on average on the three major routes connecting Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland and 6.71 per cent on average on the remaining routes in accordance with the price provisions set by the BC Airplane Commissioner in September 2007. That means the cost for a car and driver traveling one-way from the mainland to either Victoria or Nanaimo could rise to $47.75, while foot passengers will pay $14.25, a hike of 50 cents, on April 1. Under the proposed price cap the same fares could rise to $56 and $16.77 by 2015. On minor routes, such as the Nanaimo to Gabriola Island route, the $22.60 car and passenger fare, which comes into effect April 1, could hit $31 by 2015. The B.C. Airplane Commission sets a price cap for the BC Airplanes routes once every four years.
LMAO...yeah, it be 4/1/2011
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Apr 1, 2011 8:49:52 GMT -8
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/04/01/bc-ferries-fare-increases.html Island residents concerned by Ferry hikesThe latest round of BC Ferries fare increases is drawing criticism from Gulf Island residents and politicians who say the rising rates are driving residents off the islands. On Friday BC Ferries rates jumped more than three per cent on the major routes and more than six per cent on the northern and smaller routes, as part of a round of increases approved in 2007. And on Thursday the B.C. Ferries commissioner gave preliminary approval to BC Ferries to increase fares every year between 2012 and 2015 by more than four per cent on main routes and more than eight per cent on northern and minor routes. That means the cost for a car alone traveling one-way from the Lower Mainland to either Victoria or Nanaimo will rise to $47.75, while the driver and each passenger will pay $14.25 on Friday. And under the proposed future increases, the same fares could rise to $56 and $16.77 by 2015. On minor routes, such as the Nanaimo to Gabriola Island route, the $22.60 vehicle only fare, which comes into effect April 1, could hit $31 by 2015. Tony Law, the chair of the Hornby-Denman Ferry Advisory Committee, says fares have increased on his route by 120 per cent since 2003. Law says some people have already been forced to move off Denman because of the high fares and he calls the next round of fare increases scary. "Ferry fares affect everything. It affects goods coming to the island, people selling things off island, tourists coming, and the ability to get to appointments. It affects every aspect of island life," said Law. More public accountability needed: NDPNDP MLA Mike Farnworth says the increases highlight the need for more accountability at BC Ferries. "We need to get BC Ferries [under] much greater public control than we've got right now, whether that means adjusting the existing model and making it much more accountable to the province," said Farnworth. Farnworth says it may be necessary to make BC Ferries a Crown corporation once again to ensure greater public accountability. Currently BC Ferries is an independent corporation owned completely by the provincial government. "The bottom line is, that the Ferry corporation should be serving British Columbians and the needs of British Columbians. It's part of our transportation system," he said. BC's new Transportation Minister Blair Lekstrom says he believes the BC Ferry Commission, which oversees rates, and the BC Ferries Corporation are both trying to keep rates down. "I think the commissioner has done a great deal of work. BC Ferries has done a great deal of work on this, and when you look at rising fuel costs, you look at a number of things that come in, I don't think this is a bad report, but am I concerned about the numbers that are contained within it? Yes I am," he said. Lekstom says it is clear families are being strained by the increases and he will review the planned increases with Liberal caucus members. Members of the public have until June 30 to comment on the proposed hikes before a final decision is made at the end of September. The B.C. Ferry Commission sets a price cap for the BC Ferries routes once every four years.
Wait...I had a thought...this sounds like grousing to me...maybe it should be in the other thread! ;D
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Post by uricanejack on Apr 1, 2011 15:28:14 GMT -8
I loged in late last night and was confused by finding I was checking out the west coast airplane forum. which had all the same threads.
i see one post refering to the BC airplanes and the BC airplane commisoner. maybe i was just over tired or some thing.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 1, 2011 15:39:41 GMT -8
I loged in late last night and was confused by finding I was checking out the west coast airplane forum. which had all the same threads. i see one post refering to the BC airplanes and the BC airplane commisoner. maybe i was just over tired or some thing. Or maybe it was April Fool's day ? ;D
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 3, 2011 18:56:55 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 7, 2011 21:55:43 GMT -8
BC Ferries has published its response/rebuttal to the ferry commissioner's preliminary price-cap decision. - Public comments are the next phase, due by June 30th. For the 48-page BC Ferries response, see this link: www.bcferrycommission.com/BCFS_Response_April_30_2011.pdf=========== Some highlights: ------------------- ------------------- ------------------- ------------------- -------------------
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 27, 2011 9:00:49 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 24, 2011 7:57:09 GMT -8
One thing ironic about my reaction to the various recent news stories about BC Ferries low riderships, low revenue and and need to do some drastic cost & sailing cutting is that before Government stepped-in during the last year, at least we all had an idea of the timeliness for various decisions and changes.
Now that government is getting more involved in BC Ferries again (evidenced by the comptroller-general’s review a few years ago, by the change to the Act this past spring, by Blair’s delay in the PT3 decision, etc), us interested spectators no longer know the time-line of when to expect decisions and announcements.
Who knows when and if announcements on sailing reductions or other interesting-news might happen? Before, we knew the calendar and the process (the Performance-Term process). Now, it’s much more of an unexpected thing, or it could be.
So maybe there will be something big announced at today’s AGM. Maybe there will be something big announced by Blair Lekstrom from Victoria. The regimented calendar of the quasi-private company era might be over, and I’d miss that in an ironic way.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Aug 24, 2011 9:29:36 GMT -8
The Province has to get its political act in order and make some decisions. It has to task BCF and management differently and kick in more subsidies or pay a price by having higher fares. A mucky middle ground sounds messy to me.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 4, 2012 19:28:41 GMT -8
Here's a consulting report on Price-Elasticity for BCFerries route. (price-elasticity is the economic concept regarding how demand changes when the price is changed). foi.bcferries.com/2010-054-responsiverecord2.pdfThis is from a recently Tyee FOI request, and was mentioned in Christina Montgomery's blog today (thanks !). It's regarding the upcoming performance-term #3. .....if you want to know what BCFerries own consultants say about how traffic-demand is impacted by fare prices, then read this.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 6, 2012 10:02:38 GMT -8
The Ferry Commissioner's website has a news-item for the signed contract for Performance Term #3. Term #3 is from April 2012 to March 2016. It's a 73 page document, but the interesting route-by-route overviews start on PDF page #18. It can be found here: www.bcferrycommission.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/CoastalFerryServicesContract120401Amendments.pdf====================== PDF pages #3-4 have comments on how BC Ferries will be allowed to achieve savings by cutting services. ie. some guiding principles. - for the route-by-route info, I don't see any changes from status-quo. I think this is a "same as before" contract, and the mechanism for future service-cuts has been put into place.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 1, 2012 13:23:04 GMT -8
The Ferry Commissioner released the price cap % increases for years 2-4 of term #3. April 1, 2013 – 4.1 per cent; April 1, 2014 – 4.0 per cent; April 1, 2015 – 3.9 per cent. from here: www.bcferrycommission.com/reports-press/whats-new/final-price-cap-decision-released/--------------------- April 1, 2012 was set earlier, by an interim decision, at 4.15%. So, according to my trusty calculator, the compounded effect of the 4-year increase will be 17.15%. - ie. if you paid $100 for a fare during 2011 year, you'd be paying $117.15 for same item during the 2015 year. Perhaps some good news is that the original interim decision (before the Act amendments) was for 4.15% for major routes, but 8.23% for minor & northern routes. - With the cross-subsidization now allowed from the Act amendments, the new price-cap increase %'s are for all routes.
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