Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 22, 2010 21:20:20 GMT -8
wow I dident know the NIP ran on every northern route!! The sure messed that one up!!
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 22, 2010 21:28:53 GMT -8
Some things I have learned already in surfing around... - The Queen of Chilliwack "in the off season operates on Jervis Inlet between Saltery Bay and Earls Cove..."
- The Island Sky has 680 horsepower and it has "several amenities"
- On board the QoNW you will find lots of places to seat..." and apparently is still blessed with midship solariums on the upper deck. They also are continuing to use that rather poor photo shopped picture of her.
- The Northern Adventure "boasts the most 'creature comforts' in the fleet"... Exactly what do they mean by this?
I really don't think I am being overly critical here. Check it out yourselves. Right. So, exactly who said it was really well done? Nothing is ever well done until you have completed everything properly. If you put up a flashy media show, but your information is poorly conveyed, or unreliable, and you haven't even reviewed your content for grammar and readability than you haven't really done any of it all that well. Not to mention unattractive photo-edited display images: certainly not well done to completion. I said that I thought the "Media Wall" was well done. I meant that as overall, not specifically pertaining to the Fleet Overview. Sorry, I guess should have made that more clear... Yes, the Fleet Overview has quite a few mistakes and ship specific errors on it. Even with those mistakes, it is an improvement to the fleet profile page on the BCF website, IMHO. As we all know, if forum members contributed to the written profiles like we did with the photos, there would be no mistakes... Oooooooh, maybe we could persuade them to let us add "How to tell ships of the same class apart"...
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 22, 2010 21:57:04 GMT -8
Is this "Media Wall" actually 'live', and if so, is there a link somewhere on www.bcferries.com?
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 22, 2010 22:05:17 GMT -8
Is this "Media Wall" actually 'live', and if so, is there a link somewhere on www.bcferries.com? There is a link to it on the BC Ferries Vacation Centre Facebook Page.
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 22, 2010 22:25:55 GMT -8
I noticed maybe two or three photos of mine in there as well I think. Could be wrong though. Neat concept, but not flawless as we've already noticed.
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Post by Curtis on Sept 22, 2010 22:50:15 GMT -8
I've found two of my pics. One of the Nimpkish and another of the NIP. Not to say I'm not flattered by it, but BCF could have done a way better job of contacting the source of the pictures. They could have at least credited the owners of the photos.
That coupled with the poor descriptions, hell, they might as well have hired us to do the research.
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Post by glasseye on Sept 22, 2010 23:39:32 GMT -8
BCF could have done a way better job of contacting the source of the pictures. They could have at least credited the owners of the photos. This kind of behavior is totally unacceptable for a quasi-government organization. Post a letter to BCFS corporate and demand they either credit your work or take your photos down.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Sept 22, 2010 23:57:40 GMT -8
BCF could have done a way better job of contacting the source of the pictures. They could have at least credited the owners of the photos. Nice.. I see one of my pics as well. The one of Kuper is mine, but no credit is given...
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 23, 2010 0:03:52 GMT -8
I have sent an email to BCF communications, asking for an explanation, and kindly asking for a cash-credit to my BCF Experience Card. The scope of this photo-theft is pretty large, as indicated by the number of people responding on this here thread to say "me too ". BCF messed up with this one. It will be interesting to see if they make it right, or if they ignore the issue.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Sept 23, 2010 0:09:04 GMT -8
I highly recommend everyone grab a screen capture of each page with your pics on it ASAP..
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Post by glasseye on Sept 23, 2010 0:12:29 GMT -8
It's not really up to BCF to decide whether they will make it right or not. The law is very clear on this issue. If BCF is uncooperative then you're perfectly within your rights to sue.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 23, 2010 0:24:51 GMT -8
I highly recommend everyone grab a screen capture of each page with your pics on it ASAP.. Thanks for the advice, Kam. I've updated my photo posts on page-1 of this thread, to include the screen-shots.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Sept 23, 2010 0:44:20 GMT -8
I have done the same.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 23, 2010 6:55:54 GMT -8
Bob Anderson is or was the Director of Marketing. I am not sure if the Media Wall is his responsibility. Deborah Marshall refered me to him regarding posting on the forum the old Inside Passage brochure from the Queen of the North. Which reminds me, I never received an answer.
I can see the process taking place when they developed the Media Wall. I doubt BCFerries would do this inhouse and hired a website developer or graphic aritist to do it. I would sincerely hope a proper agency wasn't involved given what I see.
No one asked the graphic artist or softwear guy who developed it, where he got the pics. I would assume he/she was given access to BCFerries electronic and printed photos. He/she didn't like them so did a web search and started plucking pics. The assumption would have been they were legit BCF's pics or permission was requested. I face this all the time with junior graphic artists and even more so web guys who take liberties. Web guys sometimes are computer nerds who know the coding and start to do art, but often lack some of the training and attention to detail experienced artists know to practice.
The errors on the Fleet Page is simply a lack of proper proofing and signoffs by people who should know better.
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Sept 23, 2010 8:01:08 GMT -8
I sent an e-mail last night as well.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 23, 2010 9:25:08 GMT -8
It's interesting how the first post in this thread was so positive, and then almost everyone else has a negative response.
It's all because BCFerries chose to treat one of our members differently than all the rest of us. Too bad that they only decided to extend courtesy to Scott, and then chose to disrespect the rest of us. - of course if BC Ferries chose to steal from all of us, then that would be bad too.
I've noticed that there's a Facebook page for BCF Vacations, and that some have chosen to "like" it. As for me, I have a healthy dislike for BCF Vacations right now, but even Facebook won't let me choose "dislike".
The pervasiveness of the disrespect shown by BC Ferries to our forum members is amazing. Not just one person or 2 people. You just need to count the number of people posting on this page in the past 12 hours to say that they've been ripped-off by BC Ferries.
Too bad that Scott's happy moment uncovered something rotten.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
Posts: 1,671
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Sept 23, 2010 10:28:42 GMT -8
It's interesting how the first post in this thread was so positive, and then almost everyone else has a negative response. It's all because BCFerries chose to treat one of our members differently than all the rest of us. Too bad that they only decided to extend courtesy to Scott, and then chose to disrespect the rest of us. - of course if BC Ferries chose to steal from all of us, then that would be bad too. I've noticed that there's a Facebook page for BCF Vacations, and that some have chosen to "like" it. As for me, I have a healthy dislike for BCF Vacations right now, but even Facebook won't let me choose "dislike". The pervasiveness of the disrespect shown by BC Ferries to our forum members is amazing. Not just one person or 2 people. You just need to count the number of people posting on this page in the past 12 hours to say that they've been ripped-off by BC Ferries. Too bad that Scott's happy moment uncovered something rotten. Personally and no disrespect to anyone who seems to be mad about the poaching, it is much about nothing, since the pictures do not mean any extra revenue generated from them directly. I have had pictures poached myself: (a) The Ministry of Transportation and Highways took two and one diagram, the diagram was a profile of the Deas Island Tunnel which was used on a publication describing progress of improvements. The pictures were taken of the Malahat while driving my Truckasaurus to Victoria. Those ended up in a discussion paper regarding the alignments of the Malahat Highway. Despite knowing the Minister personally I did not ask him about that, but did state to many that the Ministry had indeed poached my pictures. (b) KING-TV 5 Seattle took two pictures I had taken while aboard the Queen of the North, one on the main car deck, another one taken on the starboard side of the ship while she was heading up the Central Coast. I did write to King TV about those, and they did apologise profusely. (c) I was asked by Thomas Cook Travel in the UK about their using some materials for their BC travel book. But I think rather than throwing imaginary mugs around the room, that a few people should show a bit of pride that BC Ferries has elected to use pictures off the forum. It was quite a few years ago I remember when a few people were complaining that their pictures were not even being considered for use by BC Ferries, but rather those taken by their own supplied photographer. The cash credt for the BCF Experience Card as "compensation" for materials used simply isn't going to happen. There is the sense of first use copyright, but remember BCF is not making any money directly off those pictures as they are just wall devices, part of the decor. Wonder sometimes why there is this constant warfare going on between some members here and BC Ferries. I've never seen it in the UK based ferries forum I vist which supports a large fleet ferry company and they have more co-operation although that means not agreeing on everything 100%, 100% of the time. In by any means, the forum should build up its releationship with BCF and not try to destroy it. That doesn't mean agreeing with everything BCF does 100%, 100% of the time, but does not mean being in constant warfare. Personally I'd be busting buttons in pride if BCF had used internally or publicly viewing of my stuff. Don't need the credit or recognition. Have about 6 pieces of wood with polished metal with my name on it, and 67 letters of praise, both of which state how good a guy I am. Big deal. Already know that. To me it's just about the principle of the unapproved usage. Yes, people should be proud BCFS considers their photos to contain a level of quality and content worthy of representing the company's public image. But this does not excuse poaching of photos. This type of discussion is raging on many other forums as poaching is a frequent issue on the web, and really should not be tolerated. Whether or not the photos have any 'real' monetary value, or provide a revenue source for the poacher, it is still outright theft if the image owner has not provided a release for use. P.S. I think I would also disagree that this media wall doesn't earn BCFS some revenue...all advertising, be it direct ads right on down to the 'wallpaper', is intended to have some value in promoting a company, thereby creating profit...
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Sept 23, 2010 10:32:03 GMT -8
you know I should be busting out in pride, for over the years many have taken the liberty to use my illustrations and some pics. In the dogwood years, ferries gave me lots of credit, but the world of that kind of respect is long gone. I agree with the member who feels we maybe should not be too upset at people borrowing pics, but just do not try claiming ownership of the same!. mr.dot.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 23, 2010 10:38:30 GMT -8
I mean I have to say I would be at least happy if BC Ferries used some of my photos! But on the same note I would want them to ask permission first to use them which is the right thing to do not just to take them and use them without permission. And yeah some sort of credit or reconition would be good if they were to use them. Maybe even a free trip or a free top up of a experience card would be a good thank you from them. But I doubt that would happen. I know Scott got some free stuff for letting BC Ferries use his stuff. But they asked him. There are so many people with good photos that maybe BC Ferries said there is too many and they were too lazy to ask everyone, we'll just use them, lol! Who is in charge of that anyways??
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Sept 23, 2010 10:46:37 GMT -8
I am happy that they choose to use my images, I’m sure everyone here is happy that they though our work was good enough for their use. The simple matter is they didn’t ask permission, this is called “Intellectual Property Theft”. These are also being used for an advertising/marketing purpose. The “Media Wall” is used for one purpose, just like any other corporate website or installation, as a marketing tool to increase profits by BC Ferries. Generally I would have absolutely no problem letting them use my images, for free, assuming they simply ask my permission or give me credit as the Photographer. As PK notes it is an honor to have my photo selected, but what honor is it when you get it by being stolen from.
As for the relationship with BC Ferries, I don’t think we are the problem. This shows that they do not care about our relationship with them, one that could be very positive, and has been in the past. We have not really had a chance until now to set a president, and now we have to, for the good of the relationship. They simply need to ask permission and I assume most would gladly allow them to use our work in any capacity or form.
My personal website I’m sure has generated more traffic for BC Ferries, I get on average two to three legitimate E-mails per week, where people have stumbled across my website and ask for help planning their own trips. I know of at least three inside passage trips and two discovery coast trips that I directly recommended to people that have occurred this summer alone. On one occasion I convinced one couple to completely change their summer travel plans to include a trip on the NorEx. All this for nothing, and then BC Ferries does this to me. This is quite unprofessional in my opinion.
My boss, an Architect, was quite surprised when i told him about this. He agreed right away that it was theft and that he would go after anyone who used image from our firms website for commercial use without permission. Its just wrong and all thoughts of honor or pride in your work go out the window when it is unrightfully used.
Cheers,
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 23, 2010 10:58:05 GMT -8
Doesn't matter how many times it has been done to you or not and whether it bothers you or not. This has nothing to do with desk plates, plaques or anything of the sort. I was nicely trying to say in my post poaching is unprofessional. Whether you tolerate it or not is up to the individual but it is not a best practice by any means. There is a big gulf between trained and skilled graphic artists and cheaper computer literate people that can make things look ok.
A large organization that has pages of brand standards regarding its logo, and seeks to be vigilant in their policing of it to the extent it comments on "artwork" done by nonprofessionals, should be as vigilant in its own practices. Their standards should be as high with things such as the graphics for representing their own ships, the use of and the crediting of photos, etc.
Basically what is called for is a marketing rulebook that outlines the standards, the minimum practices, and consistancy that isn't covered by the branding document (which can be full binders already). Graphic artists and computer dudes are given that with every job and sign a document that they have read, understood, and will follow branding and marketing guidelines, or be liable for fixing any discrepancies. Amazing how when someone's $ is at stake how they become less sloppy.
One of the standards I always insist on is a detailed note for every photo used as to where it was found, cost negotiated, and credits. In the file is a legal permission from whoever. Otherwise you find a bill on your desk for $10,000 in photo fees that was unbudgeted. Or you have someone insisting you remove their likeness and you have a huge reprint or redesign cost. In house people need to sign off and proof extremely carefully. Mistakes happen and people are fallible but systems are designed to minimize the risk.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Sept 23, 2010 11:08:10 GMT -8
I know Scott got some free stuff for letting BC Ferries use his stuff. But they asked him. True, but that was for providing a photo for use in printed material. I did not receive anything for the 45 photos granted for use at the Vacation Centre.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 23, 2010 11:11:51 GMT -8
I did not receive anything for the 45 photos for use at the Vacation Centre. Incorrect (pardon my semantics ): you received a request from BC Ferries to ask permission to use your 45 photos. That's something that the rest of us did not receive. That's not sour-grapes against Scott, because he's worked hard to build a relationship with those people. - I just wish that the rest of us had been extended the same courtesy by BCFS.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Sept 23, 2010 11:22:40 GMT -8
A large organization that has pages of brand standards regarding its logo, and seeks to be vigilant in their policing of it to the extent it comments on "artwork" done by nonprofessionals... ;D It's too bad said nonprofessional hasn't chirped loudly about this ...though I understand if he has a reluctance to dredge up past occurances...the old "let the sleeping dog lie" tactic...
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 23, 2010 11:36:43 GMT -8
A large organization that has pages of brand standards regarding its logo, and seeks to be vigilant in their policing of it to the extent it comments on "artwork" done by nonprofessionals... ;D It's too bad said nonprofessional hasn't chirped loudly about this ...though I understand if he has a reluctance to dredge up past occurances...the old "let the sleeping dog lie" tactic... Lest someone misunderstand, I did say nonprofessional versus unprofessional when refering to said arteeest. Sleeping dogs are good things especially when they are a black lab and horse cross, but I digress (as usual ).
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