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Post by Barnacle on Nov 26, 2013 16:27:31 GMT -8
I won't go into the reasons the Hiyu is crewed by engineers full-time, because my recollection of them is hazy at best. But this story is superficial in its research, and the issues are not. Remember, people will also be in an uproar to outlaw dihydrogen monoxide (a dangerous chemical involved in a great many household accidents such as scalding and drowning), until they find out that DHMO is the chemical name for water.
Do I think the Hiyu should be surplused? Absolutely. But this is such a shallow Sweeps Week piece...
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MV Hiyu
Nov 26, 2013 17:17:34 GMT -8
Post by chokai on Nov 26, 2013 17:17:34 GMT -8
Right, but go read a vast majority of the comments about any story on WSF on just about any story - KIRO, KOMO, KING, etc.. - especially the ones about the staffing woes earlier this year - and a vast majority of people - due to this very style of reporting - will often blurt out "Washington State needs to get out of the ferry business" or "Washington State has no business in it.." or something like that. When Washington State Ferries was running short on staffing earlier this year, just about every story saw 95% or better in terms of comments running that general theme, and it's awful hard to fight that ignorance when stories about WSF does nothing but mislead the public and create a false perception. That's right, I forgot about how there are so many comments on ferry news articles about how WSF should be privatized. Fortunately, on this particular article, there aren't any "privatize WSF" comments--yet. (knock on wood) You all worry to much about that. :-) Take all those trolls on the websites with a grain of salt, they rarely understand the true economics of anything and often times when it's explained to them you get simple vitriol back. The average electorate while obviously against public spending is not anywhere near as dumb as your average message board troll. And remember for every one person who complains on average there are 10 who don't care or are just fine with things. The last survey I saw showed very limitted support for privization of WSF or any other public transit agency in Washington. After what has happened with BC Ferries you have even less to worry about. The one thing that you can be alarmed about that does impact that discussion is our continued refusal as a country to have even a mild debate our sacred public road subsidy. Systems like BoltBus that make a big deal in the press of thier ability to undercut Amtrak for the trips between SEA/PDX rely massively on those blinders. If your toll rate in the US was what it was in Europe (say France) it would be almost $50 bucks to drive a car between Seattle and Portland in tolls.
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MV Hiyu
Nov 26, 2013 17:22:05 GMT -8
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 26, 2013 17:22:05 GMT -8
I agree with compdude787 about crewing the Hiyu for 24 hours for ever day of the year. I think it would be ok for crew to check up on her very 2 months. If they need her for a route the crew could come to her the day of the service interruption to do an inspection and put her in service. She could be retired with no other boat replacing her instead of doing my idea.
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MV Hiyu
Nov 26, 2013 17:53:14 GMT -8
Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 26, 2013 17:53:14 GMT -8
I won't go into the reasons the Hiyu is crewed by engineers full-time, because my recollection of them is hazy at best. But this story is superficial in its research, and the issues are not. Remember, people will also be in an uproar to outlaw dihydrogen monoxide (a dangerous chemical involved in a great many household accidents such as scalding and drowning), until they find out that DHMO is the chemical name for water. Do I think the Hiyu should be surplused? Absolutely. But this is such a shallow Sweeps Week piece.. It isn't all too surprising, given the fact KING5 is the least-credible news agency in the Seattle market. KOMO hasn't been much better as of late - especially since their takeover by Sinclair Broadcast Group, but KING absolutely takes the cake in a lot of their reporting - erm, or lack thereof. I have personal experience in dealing with them, and a story that they ran in 2002 for which they failed to retract - after I had already discredited every single claim made in it.
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MV Hiyu
Nov 26, 2013 17:56:42 GMT -8
Post by Steve Rosenow on Nov 26, 2013 17:56:42 GMT -8
That's right, I forgot about how there are so many comments on ferry news articles about how WSF should be privatized. Fortunately, on this particular article, there aren't any "privatize WSF" comments--yet. (knock on wood) You all worry to much about that. :-) Take all those trolls on the websites with a grain of salt, they rarely understand the true economics of anything and often times when it's explained to them you get simple vitriol back. The average electorate while obviously against public spending is not anywhere near as dumb as your average message board troll. And remember for every one person who complains on average there are 10 who don't care or are just fine with things. The last survey I saw showed very limitted support for privization of WSF or any other public transit agency in Washington. After what has happened with BC Ferries you have even less to worry about. The one thing that you can be alarmed about that does impact that discussion is our continued refusal as a country to have even a mild debate our sacred public road subsidy. Systems like BoltBus that make a big deal in the press of thier ability to undercut Amtrak for the trips between SEA/PDX rely massively on those blinders. If your toll rate in the US was what it was in Europe (say France) it would be almost $50 bucks to drive a car between Seattle and Portland in tolls. My fear is founded on the "Tim Eyman" principle, where some nutcase will, due to the vast level of misinformation, spearhead a lame initiative and ram it down the voters' throats to the point that there will be no going back once that has taken place. Initiative 695 was a good example of that.
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MV Hiyu
Nov 26, 2013 18:55:39 GMT -8
Post by compdude787 on Nov 26, 2013 18:55:39 GMT -8
That's right, I forgot about how there are so many comments on ferry news articles about how WSF should be privatized. Fortunately, on this particular article, there aren't any "privatize WSF" comments--yet. (knock on wood) You all worry to much about that. :-) Take all those trolls on the websites with a grain of salt, they rarely understand the true economics of anything and often times when it's explained to them you get simple vitriol back. The average electorate while obviously against public spending is not anywhere near as dumb as your average message board troll. And remember for every one person who complains on average there are 10 who don't care or are just fine with things. The last survey I saw showed very limitted support for privization of WSF or any other public transit agency in Washington. After what has happened with BC Ferries you have even less to worry about. You're right. I really think that most of the electorate, even in the Puget Sound area, don't really care much about the ferries and really take them for granted. Ferries don't play a big part in politics here.
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MV Hiyu
Nov 26, 2013 19:53:17 GMT -8
Post by chokai on Nov 26, 2013 19:53:17 GMT -8
My fear is founded on the "Tim Eyman" principle, where some nutcase will, due to the vast level of misinformation, spearhead a lame initiative and ram it down the voters' throats to the point that there will be no going back once that has taken place. Initiative 695 was a good example of that. While bad, 695 was probably the least mis-information ridden of Eyman's campaigns, it in my view it largely passed due to ego and hubris on the part of the gov't and the resultant failure to communicate well it's impact. As he has gotten more and more desperate he has peddled more mis-information and been less and less successful. In fact the only thing he has succeeded in passing in the last 10 years is repeats of the tax initiative each time the supreme court declared it unconstitutional and some changes to the KC council and some audits. Today unless you are willing to spend 30M+ to basically bribe the voters winning a state wide campaign in Washington is almost entirely about convincing one set of voters and that is King County, sometimes your need to make Snohomish and Pierce counties "tight" if it is a particularly liberal item/candidate. To our good fortune those areas are generally an exceptionally well educated and well informed set of voters (relatively speaking). And the ongoing densification of Seattle (up over 50K in the last 10 years) and it's high voting rate only make this more difficult for such snake oil peddlers. I don't see someone spending 30M+ over privatizing a public agency. If it happened over anything it would be the Port of Seattle/Tacoma and all the drama there.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 27, 2013 15:56:22 GMT -8
I don't see someone spending 30M+ over privatizing a public agency. No private entity would take over WSF--they couldn't afford to operate it, let alone modernize it.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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MV Hiyu
Nov 27, 2013 19:26:05 GMT -8
Post by SolDuc on Nov 27, 2013 19:26:05 GMT -8
Hiyu has gotten out of the drydock at DCI today and is now sitting at Slip 4, Anacortes.
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SolDuc
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SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
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Post by SolDuc on Dec 3, 2013 17:12:29 GMT -8
So the Hiyu sat at Anacortes for quite some time, and didn't move away from Slip 4 until earlier today when she got underway for Eagle Harbor. I was lucky enough to make a detour on my way north to Belligham on Thursday (11/28) to take a few pictures of her in Anacortes. And I striked it rich because the lightning was just right and Mt Baker was out! The pictures turned out so great I got 3000+ views on my flickr today and one of them - the first one that I'll post - has exploded the record of number of favorites in a single photo on my Flickr stream! Anyways, here are some pictures (or more like a lot.. So here's the Hiyu with Baker in the background, from the Beach next to the terminal: MV Hiyu at Slip 4, Anacortes - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr Looking at Baker once again, this time through the car deck: MV Hiyu at Slip 4, Anacortes - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr From a little farther down the beach: MV Hiyu at Slip 4, Anacortes - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr From the end of the "Ship Harbor Suburbs": MV Hiyu at Slip 4, Anacortes - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr Bird's eye view: MV Hiyu at Slip 4, Anacortes - Washington State Ferries by SolDuc Photography, on Flickr
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 4, 2013 6:58:27 GMT -8
Great shots of the mighty Hiyu! I particularly appreciate the hiding of the rescue boat station--it's an afterthought and it shows. I am happy the Hiyu's safety gear caught up with the rest of the fleet, but it made one-half of the cabin a little less than comfortable.
The Hiyu is such a cute little thing. I have a soft spot for the older and smaller boats, it terms of aesthetics. (Not the Kwa-di-Tubtoys, though.) I'll be sorry to see the Flying Saucer go.
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lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
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MV Hiyu
Jan 18, 2014 16:09:44 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Jan 18, 2014 16:09:44 GMT -8
Does anyone know what the HIYU actually draws in lightship and fully loaded configurations?
Also, does anyone have any photos or proportional drawings of the HIYU on the ways or otherwise out-of-the-water?
Thanks in advance, Jim
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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MV Hiyu
Jan 19, 2014 11:33:27 GMT -8
Post by FNS on Jan 19, 2014 11:33:27 GMT -8
Does anyone know what the HIYU actually draws in lightship and fully loaded configurations? Also, does anyone have any photos or proportional drawings of the HIYU on the ways or otherwise out-of-the-water? Thanks in advance, Jim The HIYU measures 162 feet in length, 63 feet in beam, and has a draft of 11.25 feet. See Page 117 in Harre Demoro's book The Evergreen Fleet to see a couple of launch photos.
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lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
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MV Hiyu
Jan 19, 2014 12:41:58 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Jan 19, 2014 12:41:58 GMT -8
I am doubtful that the boat draws that much. Waterhouses' writing lists it at 3.05 meters or about 9" 10 3/4 inches. The Chistine Anderson and the Steilacoom II have the same draft listing, I have personally seen the watermark of the STII at 8.5 feet with a full car and passenger load. While the HIYU may draw 10 feet fully loaded, I imagine it draws 7.5-8 feet unloaded, but I'd like some actual confirmation of what it really draws in service. The 11.25 feet would be really loaded, which may be the State's worst case default number. I am more interested in the lightship draft than loaded.
I do not have Demoro's book, was hoping someone had a photo of it on a ways somewhere.
Thanks,
Jim
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MV Hiyu
Jan 19, 2014 12:48:32 GMT -8
Post by compdude787 on Jan 19, 2014 12:48:32 GMT -8
I am doubtful that the boat draws that much. Waterhouses' writing lists it at 3.05 meters or about 9" 10 3/4 inches. The Chistine Anderson and the Steilacoom II have the same draft listing, I have personally seen the watermark of the STII at 8.5 feet with a full car and passenger load. While the HIYU may draw 10 feet fully loaded, I imagine it draws 7.5-8 feet unloaded, but I'd like some actual confirmation of what it really draws in service. The 11.25 feet would be really loaded, which may be the State's worst case default number. I am more interested in the lightship draft than loaded. I do not have Demoro's book, was hoping someone had a photo of it on a ways somewhere. Thanks, Jim The fleet info on WSF's website also says that the Hiyu has a draft of 11'3" which is the same figure FerryNut gave from Demoro's book. I don't know why you're doubting that.
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lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
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MV Hiyu
Jan 19, 2014 13:11:48 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Jan 19, 2014 13:11:48 GMT -8
I have my reasons which I will get to later. I am also seeing discrepancies from what the designer said and may may be real. As Ronnie said, trust, but verify. From my personal observations, boats often draw less than listed. Remember I am looking for lightship draft, not loaded. I was hoping to avoid a trip to Bainbridge to see.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Jan 19, 2014 13:17:39 GMT -8
I am doubtful that the boat draws that much. Waterhouses' writing lists it at 3.05 meters or about 9" 10 3/4 inches. The Chistine Anderson and the Steilacoom II have the same draft listing, I have personally seen the watermark of the STII at 8.5 feet with a full car and passenger load. While the HIYU may draw 10 feet fully loaded, I imagine it draws 7.5-8 feet unloaded, but I'd like some actual confirmation of what it really draws in service. The 11.25 feet would be really loaded, which may be the State's worst case default number. I am more interested in the lightship draft than loaded. I do not have Demoro's book, was hoping someone had a photo of it on a ways somewhere. Thanks, Jim Here's a picture of the page in Demoro's book: Interesting to note is that a fellow did the honors in the breaking of the bubbly on her rather than a lady.
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MV Hiyu
Jan 19, 2014 14:25:55 GMT -8
Post by Barnacle on Jan 19, 2014 14:25:55 GMT -8
I am doubtful that the boat draws that much. Waterhouses' writing lists it at 3.05 meters or about 9" 10 3/4 inches. The Chistine Anderson and the Steilacoom II have the same draft listing, I have personally seen the watermark of the STII at 8.5 feet with a full car and passenger load. While the HIYU may draw 10 feet fully loaded, I imagine it draws 7.5-8 feet unloaded, but I'd like some actual confirmation of what it really draws in service. The 11.25 feet would be really loaded, which may be the State's worst case default number. I am more interested in the lightship draft than loaded. I do not have Demoro's book, was hoping someone had a photo of it on a ways somewhere. Thanks, Jim I have photos of her empty which, although slightly blurry, appear to have the Hiyu sitting at a touch under 10 feet of draft, bone empty and tied up at Eagle Harbor. 11'3" loaded draft is realistic.
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lifc
Voyager
Posts: 471
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MV Hiyu
Jan 19, 2014 14:50:39 GMT -8
Post by lifc on Jan 19, 2014 14:50:39 GMT -8
Ferrynut,
Thanks for the picture, the hull profile looks quite similar to that of the Christine Anderson, although it has a less complicated profile in the ends. The STII is a bit different with more extended platform toward the rails.
Barnacle,
Thank you for the reply. Ouch that's deep, might make my idea not work, which I will explain later. If that's the draft, then, it's one heavy little boat, so you are right 11' 3" could easily be the loaded depth.
Does anyone know what engines she has in her? I was told they are older Cats, unfortunately I can remember their model number. Seems to me they are either 398's or 399's, but I may be wrong.
Jim
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MV Hiyu
Jan 20, 2014 5:58:41 GMT -8
Post by EGfleet on Jan 20, 2014 5:58:41 GMT -8
Ferrynut, Thanks for the picture, the hull profile looks quite similar to that of the Christine Anderson, although it has a less complicated profile in the ends. The STII is a bit different with more extended platform toward the rails. Barnacle, Thank you for the reply. Ouch that's deep, might make my idea not work, which I will explain later. If that's the draft, then, it's one heavy little boat, so you are right 11' 3" could easily be the loaded depth. Does anyone know what engines she has in her? I was told they are older Cats, unfortunately I can remember their model number. Seems to me they are either 398's or 399's, but I may be wrong. Jim 2 Caterpillar D 379 Diesels. And here's a close-up of the christening photo in Demoro's book, which may or may not help.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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MV Hiyu
Jan 20, 2014 7:26:26 GMT -8
Post by FNS on Jan 20, 2014 7:26:26 GMT -8
Here are a couple of launch day photos of the HIYU's sister, the YFB-87, as provided by NavSource Naval History: www.navsource.org/archives/14/350087.htmwww.navsource.org/archives/14/1435008704.jpgPhoto from Richard's Studio Collection, Tacoma Public Library. Contributed to NavSource by Tommy Trampp. Unlike the HIYU, a lady does the honors with the bubbly. Western Boat, Tacoma. www.navsource.org/archives/14/1435008701.jpgPhoto from Richard's Studio Collection, Tacoma Public Library. Contributed to NavSource by Tommy Trampp. The YFB-87 enters the cold waterways of Tacoma, 18 December 1969. She would be destined to warmer waters of Hawaii serving Ford Island, Honolulu.
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MV Hiyu
Jan 20, 2014 18:11:49 GMT -8
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 20, 2014 18:11:49 GMT -8
Here are a couple of launch day photos of the HIYU's sister, the YFB-87, as provided by NavSource Naval History: www.navsource.org/archives/14/350087.htmwww.navsource.org/archives/14/1435008704.jpgPhoto from Richard's Studio Collection, Tacoma Public Library. Contributed to NavSource by Tommy Trampp. Unlike the HIYU, a lady does the honors with the bubbly. Western Boat, Tacoma. www.navsource.org/archives/14/1435008701.jpgPhoto from Richard's Studio Collection, Tacoma Public Library. Contributed to NavSource by Tommy Trampp. The YFB-87 enters the cold waterways of Tacoma, 18 December 1969. She would be destined to warmer waters of Hawaii serving Ford Island, Honolulu. Did the Hiyu sister ever operate for WSF before she was sent to Hawaii?
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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MV Hiyu
Jan 20, 2014 19:21:13 GMT -8
Post by FNS on Jan 20, 2014 19:21:13 GMT -8
Did the Hiyu sister ever operate for WSF before she was sent to Hawaii? I don't think so. She might have met her sister HIYU when doing sea trials. Only her old logbooks would tell that navigational part of the story if she ever ventured past Point Defiance or not. BTW, the HIYU doesn't serve cheeseburgers to her passengers as she has no galley. Would be awesome, though.
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MV Hiyu
Jan 20, 2014 20:35:18 GMT -8
Post by compdude787 on Jan 20, 2014 20:35:18 GMT -8
Did the Hiyu sister ever operate for WSF before she was sent to Hawaii? The Hiyu's sister wasn't even built for WSF. She was built for the Navy to use as a ferry to and from Ford Island in Pearl Harbor. She remained in service until 1998, when a bridge was built to Ford Island.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Jan 20, 2014 20:37:53 GMT -8
Did the Hiyu sister ever operate for WSF before she was sent to Hawaii? The Hiyu wasn't even built for WSF. She was built for the Navy to use as a ferry to and from Ford Island in Pearl Harbor. She remained in service until 1998, when a bridge was built to Ford Island. The Hiyu was built for WSF, her sister (named the Moko Holo Hele according to EGFleet) wasn't. Get your ships right.
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