chief
Chief Steward
Posts: 117
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Post by chief on Jan 8, 2010 17:54:51 GMT -8
The repair is not so bad as it could have been. Had a different Cooper failed, say one on the high speed shaft that runs between gear rooms then the repair would have taken weeks or months while a new shaft was built.
There was damage to the ship's service generator by the fire fighting effort. Dry Chemical induction. They will have to change the generator also.
The real "cost" to WSF is not in money or repairs but in the loss to the rest of the fleet of valuable repair time in Eagle Harbor. WSF has insufficient spare vessels to deal with casualties without significant downsizing.
Each time one of these events occurrs, the response is always the same, initially the public feels the pain due to the movement of small vessels into large vessel positions.
The next thing that happens is the maintenance schedule is revised so that the proper sized ships are freed up to make the casualty invisible to the public.
The impact of reshuffling on the fleet maintenance situation lasts for months and in extreme cases, years. This is one of the silent legacies of the WSDOT decision to retire the Steel Electrics so suddenly.
Since they were removed from service WSF has had to run ship's it planned to retire, invest in ships it never intended to keep. The Supers now seem destined to be the next Steel Electrics, they will be in service for 80 years because of the investments now being made in them due to the loss of the 144 car program.
The losses to the rest of our fleet's material condition can't be overstated. All for the political needs of the highway department.
The state could have repaired two steels and given itself ten years to deal with Port Townsend without killing the 144 car program and building three inefficient, poorly designed vessels that will hamper us for the next 60 years.
The Sealth casualty is very interesting.
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 9, 2010 4:38:44 GMT -8
I remember one year we changed a crankshaft on the Cathlamet while the ship was on the run. It was never even off schedule even though one of her two engines was hanging by chainfalls from the overhead in the engine room, what a sight! Entire GE block upside down right over our heads as we cleaned the lower end. I can imagine the hissy fit if OSHA/L&I found out... I agree, but find it odd that single-engine-room vessels were being built in this country as late as 1972... any comment? |
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chief
Chief Steward
Posts: 117
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Post by chief on Jan 9, 2010 23:23:42 GMT -8
Single engine room vessels continue to be built today, none are large passenger vessels. The 1972 Jumbo MkIs have the largest population of diesel engines in a single room of any passenger carrying vessel in the United States with 7 diesels in the one engine room. Probably the most diesels of any ship...
Your observation speaks to the issue at it's core. Do we build the cheapest vessel that CG regulations permit? Or do we build ships that are the product of our own experience running ferries of this type for more than 50 years?
The legislature and our political leaders have answered that question.
If you have been around a while you know that the previous class of "Design and Build" ferries was called the 'Citrus Class' by our crews for the first 20 years of their lives because they were considered big lemons.
It was only after WSF spent tens of millions on each vessel to improve the poor machinery and propulsion controls they were built with did they become the competent vessels they are today. The Issaquah class.
The Issaquah class experience was so bad for the state that it chose to involve the senior officers in the next project and design it in house. The product of that effort was the Jumbo MKIIs. This is the most reliable class at WSF even though the readers of this forum find them un-beautiful.
Now that times are hard and there are no WSF mariners in management, the design and build process is back and the Chetzamoka is the first of the new lemon class on the ways.
Interestingly, WSF has aready determined it made at least one gross error with the first one by placing a fixed pitch propeller on it. The second and third are being fitted with CPP.
Do you remember what case led to L&I gaining juridiction with the WSF? Hint, it was a deck department case.
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 10, 2010 4:48:17 GMT -8
I only know what I've been told re: L&I. It had to do with the absence of railings on the Texas Decks of the Super class if I was informed correctly. I have also heard a name attached but mentioning said name would be highly inappropriate.
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Post by SS Shasta on Jan 10, 2010 17:16:39 GMT -8
Perhaps it is time to bring back those wonderful steam ferries ;D. Seriously, I am sorry to hear that this new vessel design may turn out to be WSF's "lemon" class. There was so much joy when the design was first announced and it now sounds like there is high risk of failure.  |
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Jan 10, 2010 21:13:39 GMT -8
After touring the parts of the one I did, I am not going to call it a lemon yet. Lemons to me will always be the D@mned Issy's.......
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FNS
Voyager 
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,957
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Post by FNS on Jan 10, 2010 21:45:22 GMT -8
After touring the parts of the one I did, I am not going to call it a lemon yet. Lemons to me will always be the D@mned Issy's....... I'm aboard the same ship as this fellow is. The new CHETZY will be a great ferry to ride. Some adjustments will undoubtedly be made during her break-in period and her initial years of service. This goes to her sisters as well. No "lemon" calling of these new 64-car ferries, please! |
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Post by northwesterner on Jan 10, 2010 22:36:09 GMT -8
After touring the parts of the one I did, I am not going to call it a lemon yet. Lemons to me will always be the D@mned Issy's....... I'm aboard the same ship as this fellow is. The new CHETZY will be a great ferry to ride. Some adjustments will undoubtedly be made during her break-in period and her initial years of service. This goes to her sisters as well. No "lemon" calling of these new 64-car ferries, please!Unless, of course, they turn out to be lemons. I'll give 'em a chance. But I've been unhappy with the whole process. Remember, the only reason we got the Island Home design was because it could be built quickly and cheaply to an off the shelf design. Turns out, that wasn't true. I hope they turn out to be great vessels... but if they aren't, then its obvious that WSF, WADOT, and the legislature is unable to learn from their previous lessons. |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,312
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Post by Neil on Jan 10, 2010 22:43:03 GMT -8
I'm aboard the same ship as this fellow is. The new CHETZY will be a great ferry to ride. Some adjustments will undoubtedly be made during her break-in period and her initial years of service. This goes to her sisters as well. No "lemon" calling of these new 64-car ferries, please!Speak for yourself. If someone wants to inject an actual engineering perspective into all the rah-rah stuff, it's fine with me. I appreciate being able to learn something from people who actually work on these vessels, and we're fortunate to have some American members with that background. |
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chief
Chief Steward
Posts: 117
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Post by chief on Jan 11, 2010 2:27:13 GMT -8
The Island Home class even has a Canadian facet to it.
The first vessel will have a control system made by PMC, (Prime Mover Controls), a Canadian Company that has an excellent reputation in our fleet. Their equipment is robust, easy to work on and is very reliable. It is locally made in BC and is well supported here.
PMC controls are in wide use at WSF, they were installed on the Issaquah class to replace their old air controls, it was on the Steel Electric class and is on the Jumbo MKII class. The fact that it was going on the first Island Home was one of the positive features of that design, one of the things we knew we did not have to worry about.
Now we find out that PMC is being taken out of the design for the second and third ships in favor of a Swedish system that has no local support and has never been previously installed in a double ended ferry. WSF has no experience with them.
I only raise the controls because they are symptomatic of a greater troubled process and germane by nationality to this site. I expect that PMC is a familiar reference point of quality for the BC crews who read these pages.
History has shown us time after time that quality is a product of design, experience and support. It is the evolutionary result of outcomes, good and bad, being redirected pro-actively into future acquisitions.
We all are familiar safety regulations promulgated by government agencies like the Coast Guard. We accept that they are the constructive result of accidents, damage, injuries, deaths and near misses. They are a product of the collective experience of an industry. The cause of safety would not progress if we were to ignore the past.
Likewise with ship design. An efficient and productive ship is the product of the experiences of her owners. They are not the product of a benevolent shipyard, regulatory agency or a vendor's west coast salesman.
The Chetzamoka will be unlike any vessel WSF has previously built...except for the pickle forks.
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Post by EGfleet on Jan 11, 2010 5:33:17 GMT -8
I'm aboard the same ship as this fellow is. The new CHETZY will be a great ferry to ride. Some adjustments will undoubtedly be made during her break-in period and her initial years of service. This goes to her sisters as well. No "lemon" calling of these new 64-car ferries, please!Speak for yourself. If someone wants to inject an actual engineering perspective into all the rah-rah stuff, it's fine with me. I appreciate being able to learn something from people who actually work on these vessels, and we're fortunate to have some American members with that background. I agree...but not to be nitpicky, can we please return this discussion to where it belongs in the 64 car thread? The last several post have been exclusively about said vessels and haven't had anything to do with the Sealth...perhaps someone could move them over?  |
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Post by SS San Mateo on Jan 12, 2010 15:36:06 GMT -8
According to the newest maintenance schedule, the Sealth (as well as the Evergreen State) will be participating in marine exercises the 1st week of May.
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 12, 2010 16:21:39 GMT -8
No idea what that means. Might be interesting, though.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,957
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Post by FNS on Jan 12, 2010 18:32:16 GMT -8
Speak for yourself. If someone wants to inject an actual engineering perspective into all the rah-rah stuff, it's fine with me. I appreciate being able to learn something from people who actually work on these vessels, and we're fortunate to have some American members with that background. I agree...but not to be nitpicky, can we please return this discussion to where it belongs in the 64 car thread? The last several post have been exclusively about said vessels and haven't had anything to do with the Sealth...perhaps someone could move them over? Better yet, send these messages to Alang for scrapping! ;D When the SEALTH is down at Point Defiance soon, I should take a ride on her there and see how much power her crew apply to her on that very short crossing to Tahlequah. |
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 12, 2010 19:19:09 GMT -8
Let's just see if we can get her fixed first, and back up in the islands. Poor Evergreen needs a break from all this strenuous added duty having to go to Anacortes and all ;D Let's get her back to inter-island ASAP!
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Post by chokai on Jan 12, 2010 21:45:47 GMT -8
When the SEALTH is down at Point Defiance soon, I should take a ride on her there and see how much power her crew apply to her on that very short crossing to Tahlequah. Heh. Was thinking that we should just get the nautical equivalent of a Prius for Tahlequah. Maybe even with plugin overnight charge capability. j/k |
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 13, 2010 10:36:18 GMT -8
Looks like Sealth may be back in service by the end of the week.
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:30AM
Anacortes/San Juan Islands - Service Disruption - Update
The 90-car Sealth will remain out of service through this week while crews repair the vessel’s engine output shaft, determine steps to prevent any reoccurrence and conduct sea trials. Customers should expect delays of 25 to 40 minutes mid-mornings, as the slower Evergreen State replaces the Sealth on the morning sailings. The Kaleetan will continue to serve in place of the Sealth on the afternoon sailings Monday through Thursday. The Hiyu will continue as the inter-island vessel. We estimate that the Sealth will be ready to return to service by the end of this week. We apologize for the inconvenience.
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Post by EGfleet on Jan 13, 2010 14:22:30 GMT -8
Here's a story in the San Juan Journal...
Repairs to Sealth extend San Juan Islands ferry service disruption; vessel expected back in service this week
Today, 10:35 AM
Repairs to the 90-car Sealth continue after damage to the vessel’s engine output shaft was discovered on Jan. 5. Engineers estimate that the vessel will be ready to return to service by the end of this week, after repairs and sea trials are completed.
The Sealth was brought to WSF’s Eagle Harbor Maintenance Facility on Bainbridge Island on Jan. 6, and engineers determined that extensive repairs would be required. WSF sent its only backup vessel, the 34-car Hiyu, to serve as the inter-island vessel in the San Juans beginning Jan. 7.
The 87-car Evergreen State is serving in place of the Sealth in the mornings. Customers should expect delays of 25 to 40 minutes mid-morning, due to the Evergreen State’s slower operating speed (13 knots versus 16 to 18 knots for the Sealth and the other Issaquah Class vessels). The 144-car Kaleetan serves in place of the Sealth on the afternoon sailings Monday through Thursday.
Crews have identified the repairs needed on the Sealth, obtained the parts, and are now performing the repairs, WSF reported. Engineers have also been working with a third party shafting/alignment specialist to identify the root cause of the damage and determine steps to take to prevent any reoccurrence.
“Workers at our Eagle Harbor Maintenance Facility are doing everything they can to try to get the Sealth back in service for the holiday weekend,” said David Moseley, assistant transportation secretary for WSF.
WSF anticipates the repairs will be completed before the end of this week; however, the vessel will require extensive sea trials of up to eight hours to prove the repairs are satisfactory prior to returning vessel to operation.
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Jody
Chief Steward
Ferry Foamer
Posts: 152
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Post by Jody on Jan 14, 2010 10:28:49 GMT -8
Just noted on Marinetraffic.com that the Sealth is out and about today. West of Suquamish at the moment steaming north toward Edmonds. I expect this is simply sea trials, but it makes me wonder if she's headed back up to the San Juans now. They said eight hours of sea trials. How long of a trip up there is it? Make a few laps of Elliot Bay, then head north? Burn up eight hours and finish at Anacortes seems logical to me, but as a disclaimer, that's a COMPLETELY uneducated opinion. Right now she's showing well east of the shipping lane, and looks like she's headed straight for the Edmonds dock.
As an off-topic aside, I am relatively new to this board an to the idea that ferries are interesting to more people than just me. (Surprise! I'm not the only nut out there. Now I know...) Though anachronistic, "steaming" seems like a reasonable description of a vessel movement. Am I wrong or misguided?
Thanks.
Jody
UPDATE: Wow, look at that! I just discovered that I can track the vessel individually, and it shows a trail of its movements over the last little while. The Sealth has now turned back south again and is passing Port Madison in the shipping lane. The trail the site is showing indicates it made one loop almost up to Edmonds earlier, and is completing a second lap . Hmmm. This has been very educational. - J
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 14, 2010 20:35:14 GMT -8
Just noted on Marinetraffic.com that the Sealth is out and about today. West of Suquamish at the moment... I hope not, unless she's in Hood Canal... ;D Logical guess, and indeed has been done in the past depending on the nature of the repairs. However, given that it was a bearing alignment check, I would think the Sealth would be hanging out fairly near the Eagle's Nest just in case, if'n ya get my drift. |
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Jody
Chief Steward
Ferry Foamer
Posts: 152
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Post by Jody on Jan 15, 2010 9:16:08 GMT -8
Looks like she's on the move again this morning. Headed to Seattle (well EAST of Suquamish today, staying off that Highway 3 corridor  ) right now. Left Eagle Harbor a little behind the Puyallup. |
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 15, 2010 9:23:34 GMT -8
Friday, January 15, 2010 9:20AM
Anacortes/San Juan Islands – Sealth returns to service Friday, Jan. 15
Repairs and sea trials have been completed on the 90-car Sealth and the vessel will return to service this afternoon. The Evergreen State will replace the Hiyu on the inter-island route early this evening. Updates will be provided when more information is available.
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Jody
Chief Steward
Ferry Foamer
Posts: 152
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Post by Jody on Jan 15, 2010 9:47:23 GMT -8
You beat me! Looks like she's headed north now after a quick stop at the Coleman dock...
J
EDIT: Holy smokes, she's flyin! A little over two hours out of Seattle, and the Sealth is already well north of Port Townsend. Another hour (?) at this rate, and she'll be in the San Juans.
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 15, 2010 15:21:00 GMT -8
Advantageous tide and two engines. ;D
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Post by SS Shasta on Jul 5, 2010 12:49:00 GMT -8
Just wondering..............
I noticed that MV Sealth is out of service on stand-by for this busy holiday weekend. She is soon scheduled to replace MV Evergreen State in the Islands as Evergreen goes into dry-dock to complete repainting. If the Sealth is not in for repairs, why haven't they she been sent to the Islands a bit early to help out with the backlog of holiday traffic?
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) right now. Left Eagle Harbor a little behind the Puyallup.