Nick
Voyager 
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080 
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Post by Nick on Aug 11, 2010 16:11:11 GMT -8
As for WSF keeping Sidney in its system, as much as I like the route, the economics of it do not justify its existence, especially in the current state the Ferries Division is operating under. In my opinion, the benefits of dumping the route far outweigh anything they might get back from it, especially since it loses money. Think about it: no landing fees, no paying for Customs officials, Anacortes Terminal can re-claim space currently used for Customs, and dedicate it to parking or more staging, no more expensive upgrades to vessels to make them SOLAS-compliant, and best yet, a vessel dedicated 100% to domestic duty. Personally, as somebody living in Sidney, I like having the option of taking the ferry to Anacortes, rather than paying the same amount to go to Tsawwassen and then drive south on I-5. I think that the route has the potential to at least break even, if not make money if it were managed a bit better. Everybody I've talked to who has done the route at some point comments on two things: A) the lack of decent food service and B) the lack of "entertaining amenities", like a video arcade. People here in the Victoria area are used to BCF route 1 ships, with arcades, a good size gift shop, buffet restaurant, and decent food. They compare the SOVI to the Chelan, and sorry, but the Chelan comes up looking rather spartan (which is not necessarily a bad thing, considering what she was designed for, but for a tourist oriented route it's not optimal). I wish that WSF would put some effort into making the crossing a destination of it's own. The scenery is certainly worth it, and if a tourist could eat a nice lunch or dinner while they enjoyed the scenery (the sailings from Sidney are timed almost perfectly for this...) I think you'd find the route would be much busier. It would also have the added benefit of increasing secondary revenue. |
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Aug 11, 2010 16:41:55 GMT -8
I wish that WSF would put some effort into making the crossing a destination of it's own. The scenery is certainly worth it, and if a tourist could eat a nice lunch or dinner while they enjoyed the scenery (the sailings from Sidney are timed almost perfectly for this...) I think you'd find the route would be much busier. It would also have the added benefit of increasing secondary revenue. I agree with you completely. I think WSF is more in the head space of providing public transit at a bare necessities level rather than a customer service based operation. I think a change in focus on this route would do wonders for boosting ridership. I bet most people dont even know the route exists let alone that the scenery itself is an attraction. Now bundle that up with restaurant style dining and more comfortable environment and i think we could have a winner. Imagine if BCF used the WSF approach to the inside passage? |
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Post by lmtengs on Aug 11, 2010 16:48:35 GMT -8
Imagine if BCF used the WSF approach to the inside passage? They sorta do. Can't you take the Nimpkish from Port Hardy up on the 'Wack's milk run during the summer? That's pretty bare-bones if you ask me, and so is Tenaka on the Cortés Island route, especially on a cold rainy day. |
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Aug 11, 2010 16:59:46 GMT -8
As for WSF keeping Sidney in its system, as much as I like the route, the economics of it do not justify its existence, especially in the current state the Ferries Division is operating under. In my opinion, the benefits of dumping the route far outweigh anything they might get back from it, especially since it loses money. Think about it: no landing fees, no paying for Customs officials, Anacortes Terminal can re-claim space currently used for Customs, and dedicate it to parking or more staging, no more expensive upgrades to vessels to make them SOLAS-compliant, and best yet, a vessel dedicated 100% to domestic duty. Personally, as somebody living in Sidney, I like having the option of taking the ferry to Anacortes, rather than paying the same amount to go to Tsawwassen and then drive south on I-5. I think that the route has the potential to at least break even, if not make money if it were managed a bit better. Everybody I've talked to who has done the route at some point comments on two things: A) the lack of decent food service and B) the lack of "entertaining amenities", like a video arcade. People here in the Victoria area are used to BCF route 1 ships, with arcades, a good size gift shop, buffet restaurant, and decent food. They compare the SOVI to the Chelan, and sorry, but the Chelan comes up looking rather spartan (which is not necessarily a bad thing, considering what she was designed for, but for a tourist oriented route it's not optimal). I wish that WSF would put some effort into making the crossing a destination of it's own. The scenery is certainly worth it, and if a tourist could eat a nice lunch or dinner while they enjoyed the scenery (the sailings from Sidney are timed almost perfectly for this...) I think you'd find the route would be much busier. It would also have the added benefit of increasing secondary revenue. I 110% Disagree with that. it doesn't need a video arcade on it as we aren't talking a boatload of children here. There is also No need for such a boat like SoVI on that run so why waste that kind of money to build something to overwhelmingly preposterous. while some of the food can be lacking we are also talking a ferryboat not bad knock off of a cruise ship. WSF with it's fleet moves a lot more people each year then BCFerries does, and with less money spent. I do however agree with Kahloke in saying I wish it was closed, I like the route and have taken it many times, but it's just not worth it. "None of this really matters, anyway. It looks like the Sidney route is here to stay." |
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Post by Barnacle on Aug 11, 2010 17:48:47 GMT -8
Food is beyond the control of WSF, guys. We've been over that before. It's entirely at the mercy of the vendors who provide the service. They don't want to have a bunch of specialty items for the Chelan... it isn't like they have the facilities to prepare it, and it isn't like they'd staff it if they did.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
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Post by Nick on Aug 11, 2010 18:20:23 GMT -8
Personally, as somebody living in Sidney, I like having the option of taking the ferry to Anacortes, rather than paying the same amount to go to Tsawwassen and then drive south on I-5. I think that the route has the potential to at least break even, if not make money if it were managed a bit better. Everybody I've talked to who has done the route at some point comments on two things: A) the lack of decent food service and B) the lack of "entertaining amenities", like a video arcade. People here in the Victoria area are used to BCF route 1 ships, with arcades, a good size gift shop, buffet restaurant, and decent food. They compare the SOVI to the Chelan, and sorry, but the Chelan comes up looking rather spartan (which is not necessarily a bad thing, considering what she was designed for, but for a tourist oriented route it's not optimal). I wish that WSF would put some effort into making the crossing a destination of it's own. The scenery is certainly worth it, and if a tourist could eat a nice lunch or dinner while they enjoyed the scenery (the sailings from Sidney are timed almost perfectly for this...) I think you'd find the route would be much busier. It would also have the added benefit of increasing secondary revenue. I 110% Disagree with that. it doesn't need a video arcade on it as we aren't talking a boatload of children here. There is also No need for such a boat like SoVI on that run so why waste that kind of money to build something to overwhelmingly preposterous. while some of the food can be lacking we are also talking a ferryboat not bad knock off of a cruise ship. WSF with it's fleet moves a lot more people each year then BCFerries does, and with less money spent. I do however agree with Kahloke in saying I wish it was closed, I like the route and have taken it many times, but it's just not worth it. "None of this really matters, anyway. It looks like the Sidney route is here to stay." You're missing my point entirely. If the vessel had amenities that made people enjoy the crossing, and made it less like riding a bus, there would be more people willing to take that route. Including children. I'm not talking about building a ship the size of the SOVI, I'm saying the boat should me more "long voyage friendly" and have more stuff for people to do, like most BCF vessels. There are many people in the Victoria area who travel to the Puget Sound area for shopping, entertainment and business. I have a really hard time believing that the demand for the crossing doesn't exist. I know that WSF does not control what food is available on board. However, that route is not going to be passenger heavy, so why not do a small scale upgrade and convert some of the lounge space to food prep areas. Many people don't realize this, but almost NONE of the food served in BCF's buffet is prepared fresh on board. It's prepackaged and nuked or otherwise heated up. That doesn't mean it's poor quality, it just means that it takes very little manpower (and more importantly space) to prepare. As well, if the food service is done by a contracted 3rd party, it should be cheaper, since they will not be paying full "ship's crew" wages. I understand why it would make sense for WSF to drop the route. In it's current form, it doesn't have a hope of breaking even, and passenger numbers don't seem to be improving. WSF also has other priorities for their very limited resources, and I understand that a non-essential international crossing isn't high on the list. That said though, I do believe that with a change in thinking it would be a viable and valuable link. |
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 11, 2010 19:22:06 GMT -8
WSF also has other priorities for their very limited resources, and I understand that a non-essential international crossing isn't high on the list. That's basically my point in a nutshell, and one that I did not adequately explain. Washington State Ferries is in crisis mode, and has been for 10 years. The Sidney route is one place I feel they can do some trimming to keep their core system afloat. If times were better, I would be on the side of keeping it going. It is a beautiful crossing, and it does tie our two nations together to a certain degree. But, it is not essential service, and that, combined with the loss of revenue and declining ridership, are reasons enough to kill it. There are plenty of other WSF routes that do not break even, but they are essential links, part of the highway system. The Sidney route is not. But, like I said in my previous post, it appears the run is here to stay. That, my friends, is what politics will get you. |
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 18, 2010 16:06:16 GMT -8
Town takes back terminal
By Laura Lavin - Peninsula News Review
Published: August 17, 2010 1:00 PM
When the lease between BC Ferries and Washington State Ferries expires in February 2011, it will take the deal between the Town of Sidney and BC Ferries with it.
“We are very happy with what has happened to the terminal physically. The general improvements to the terminal over the past three years are fantastic, actually,” said Sidney Mayor Larry Cross.
The town, however, has been disappointed with the lack of promotion the Anacortes Ferry run has had. “When we awarded the lease to BC Ferries, we were optimistic under the terms presented to us … but that marketing did not happen,” said Cross. He explained that BC Ferries had a business plan in place to market the Washington State Ferry run and to run smaller foot passenger ferries from the terminal that did not materialize.
“It appeared to us that BC Ferries had changed their plans for the terminal,” said Cross. “We had a sense they were less interested.”
“Mayor Cross met with us and explained the town’s interest in a more active role in developing business and operational plans for the terminal. Our relationship with the town and the community is important to us and so we agreed to work toward termination of the lease,” said David Hahn, president of BC Ferries.
Cross did, however, credit the ferry service for helping keep the Anacortes run going — after it was threatened by US govenment cutbacks — by decreasing landing fees by $100,000, but indicated that under town ownership, landing fees will be further reduced.
“Out of this process, we intend to send a message to the legislators in Olympia that this direct, international ferry link is vital to Sidney and the Saanich Peninsula and to our friends in Anacortes and the Olympic Peninsula and we aim to keep it running on into the future,” said Cross.
The biggest stumbling block the town faces is a lack of money to promote the “Ferry between friends”.
“The problem now is that there’s no source of funding. And, it could be argued, that the town shouldn’t be doing that anyway,” he said.
Cross is hopeful that negotiations for a new service provider for the Sidney International Ferry Terminal will include a marketing budget. “The town is not interested in making a profit from the terminal,” said Cross. “We just want to make sure it’s really self-sustaining and able to make its obligations to the town from a taxation perspective.
“We want to speak frankly with Washington State Ferries about marketing the ferry as a part of its ongoing operations. It’s in the interest of the operation and increasing ridership,” he said.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 30, 2010 8:33:19 GMT -8
October 26, 2010 photos of the Sidney BC terminal. The toll-booth isn't quite the same design as the Alpine-hut style seen at other WSF terminals.  The food-service / shop building, where you could buy scones, bagels, t-shirts and postcards.  Plaque re the terminal improvements  The Canada-Customs area for arriving vehicle traffic.  Pano-stitch, taken from just north of the ferry ramp: - gate to the ramp on the far-left - footie waiting-building on the left. - just right-of-center (behind the palm tree) is the start of the holding-lanes for arriving vehicles, to wait before they are processed through Canada Customs. - the Canada Customs building on the far-right.  The bridge / ramp / apron:    View from the water, from the departing super-Elwha:  |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 15, 2010 19:06:17 GMT -8
Photos of the marine structures at Sidney terminal, with MV Elwha. - photos taken from 1st Ave walking-path, on a rainy & cold Dec.14, 2010. ===============     |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 16, 2011 14:43:19 GMT -8
For those interested in the back-and-forth negotiations between BC Ferries and WSF during 2006-2008 regarding the use of the Sidney terminal, here's a bunch of emails and letters: - this is available on the BCferries website for 90 days.... foi.bcferries.com/2010-105-responsiverecords.pdfps: the PDF is the various documents in REVERSE chronological order. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on May 5, 2011 21:14:32 GMT -8
Sidney terminal on a sunny May 1, 2011:   MV Chelan arriving  |
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Post by EGfleet on Oct 5, 2011 9:26:23 GMT -8
Sidney-Anacortes ferry traffic up 10% By Carla Wilson, Times Colonist October 5, 2011 The Sidney to Anacortes, Washington, ferry run is growing in popularity, with passenger counts climbing by 10 per cent this year over last during the busiest months. That's welcome news to the town of Sidney, now in the final stages of negotiating a 20-year lease agreement with Washington State Ferries to operate the terminal. Sidney owns the terminal and hopes to have an agreement in place in about a month, Mayor Larry Cross said Tuesday. A total of 81,704 passengers took the ferry between April 1 and Aug. 30, up 9.7 per cent over the same period in 2010. Of those, 42,392 riders were eastbound (leaving Sidney), and 39,312 headed west, said Ray Deardorf, planning director for the ferry system. "This past summer, we ran two daily round trips as with prior summers. However, for the first time in over a decade, residents in the San Juan Islands could make a round trip to Sidney and back in the same day. Ridership on that leg of the route was up nearly 17 per cent," Deardorf said in an email. The three-hour trip runs between Sidney and Anacortes, Washington, a community of about 16,000 about halfway between Vancouver and Seattle. During the summer, the ferry runs two round trips daily. In its current fall schedule, it offers one round-trip sailing. Fares rose 2.5 per cent, with an additional 25 cents per fare going toward a vessel replacement fund as of Oct. 1. The regular price for an adult passenger is $17.50. The fare for a vehicle (less than 4.26 metres) and driver is $41.90. Cross believes there is room for improvement in marketing to passengers arriving on the peninsula. Sidney council is in talks with the Saanich Peninsula Chamber of Commerce about adding an information centre at the terminal and improving signage to attract visitors to the town. American travellers arriving on the ferry route have an impact on Sidney business but it could be greater, he said. "A lot of folks, when they come off, they've got in their mind to go to Victoria, to go to Butchart Gardens," Cross said. As well as visiting those spots, "we'd love them to see the town." Cross is pleased that officials with the Washington system are open to a 20-year lease, saying it suggests the U.S. agency is interested in running the service for the long term. The lease would include a termination clause. Washington State Ferries is the largest ferry system in the U.S., running 180,000 trips and carrying 23 million passengers every year. But in the next 10 years, the system is looking at a $180-million operating deficit. Gov. Chris Gregoire has proposed a restructuring to create a regional authority to run the ferries. Local counties could raise taxes if they wanted to improve services. The Sidney-Anacortes route is operating as usual. But Gregoire has suggested cutting its service from 40 to 22 weeks per year. cjwilson@timescolonist.com © Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist Read more: www.timescolonist.com/Sidney+Anacortes+ferry+traffic/5504751/story.html#ixzz1Zvf5LsGu**** The info is a little outdated in this story. Gregoire's plan, as we know, was resoundingly rejected by the legislature. Also, slipped into all the ferry legislation this year was a provision that the state was to continue operating the Anacortes-Sidney run at current levels. It's state law now. The fact that they're negotiating a 20 year contract should indicate that the run isn't going anywhere any time soon.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Oct 5, 2011 16:15:25 GMT -8
Be nice if Vancouver Island residents could go to the San Juans and back in the same day too! Maybe someting to think about WSF!
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 5, 2011 16:31:12 GMT -8
Here's another thread that could do with a renaming.
Something along the lines of 'WSF International Route discussion'? or 'Anacortes to Sidney Route discussion'?
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 6, 2011 14:06:02 GMT -8
Be nice if Vancouver Island residents could go to the San Juans and back in the same day too! Maybe someting to think about WSF! Requires either multiple-boat service or an extension of service hours. Funding issue; either way, don't count on it. |
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 6, 2011 14:06:26 GMT -8
Here's another thread that could do with a renaming. Something along the lines of 'WSF International Route discussion'? or 'Anacortes to Sidney Route discussion'? What about the current thread title fails to convey that? |
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Oct 6, 2011 14:11:24 GMT -8
Here's another thread that could do with a renaming. Something along the lines of 'WSF International Route discussion'? or 'Anacortes to Sidney Route discussion'? What about the current thread title fails to convey that? The title of this thread was changed shortly after 7:00 this morning. |
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 6, 2011 15:49:43 GMT -8
Here's another thread that could do with a renaming. Something along the lines of 'WSF International Route discussion'? or 'Anacortes to Sidney Route discussion'? What about the current thread title fails to convey that? The title of this thread was changed shortly after 7:00 this morning. At the time it was "Is Anacortes-Sidney B.C. going to resume?" It could confuse people into thinking that the service is at risk of being shut down.  |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 6, 2011 16:17:39 GMT -8
Here's another thread that could do with a renaming. Something along the lines of 'WSF International Route discussion'? or 'Anacortes to Sidney Route discussion'? What about the current thread title fails to convey that? This is a good time to point out that many of our threads change titles from time to time, and some get amalgamated and others have duplicate-thread posts merged into it. - at any time, you can look at the thread and see the rich & vibrant history of the various thread names (cheesiness intended). When we change a thread title, the moderator only has to go to Post #1 and change that. All other "previous posts" will still show the old thread title, but any new posts and the index-page will show the new name. ps: - I agree that "Is Anacortes-Sidney B.C. going to resume?" was a poor name for what this thread has evolved to. Many times, a thread starts with a question or quickly-outdated name, and after a while it's apparent that the original name has been outgrown and the thread has become a general discussion thread for the original topic. ie. the thread on the new ferry "Island Sky" used to be called "So what about that I-Vessel?" or something like that. - we've now given it a nice standard, plastic title. So, to answer the original question: Anacortes-Sidney is going to resume tomorrow morning, and then the next day again.... |
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 6, 2011 18:45:06 GMT -8
Many times, a thread starts with a question or quickly-outdated name, and after a while it's apparent that the original name has been outgrown and the thread has become a general discussion thread for the original topic. Just a quick aside to the mods, do I have permission to keep on occasionally posting my 'let's rename this thread' posts?  I know mini-modding is usually looked down upon, but I also know that rules often tend to not apply to me. No trespassing? Oh, that just couldn't mean ME! ;D |
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Post by Barnacle on Oct 6, 2011 19:40:05 GMT -8
What about the current thread title fails to convey that? This is a good time to point out that many of our threads change titles from time to time, and some get amalgamated and others have duplicate-thread posts merged into it. And sure enough, I missed that detail. D'oh! |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 6, 2011 20:18:10 GMT -8
Many times, a thread starts with a question or quickly-outdated name, and after a while it's apparent that the original name has been outgrown and the thread has become a general discussion thread for the original topic. Just a quick aside to the mods, do I have permission to keep on occasionally posting my 'let's rename this thread' posts? I know mini-modding is usually looked down upon, but I also know that rules often tend to not apply to me. No trespassing? Oh, that just couldn't mean ME! ;D I appreciate you spotting outdated stuff for us to change. - so please keep doing what you're doing.  |
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887
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Post by Mill Bay on Oct 7, 2011 9:59:17 GMT -8
Just a quick aside to the mods, do I have permission to keep on occasionally posting my 'let's rename this thread' posts? I know mini-modding is usually looked down upon, but I also know that rules often tend to not apply to me. No trespassing? Oh, that just couldn't mean ME! ;D Anyone who thus modifies one of my threads will be summarily banned. Seeing as it's also already happened, Flugel has to go now. “No trespassing! Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.” |
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tom98250
Deckhand
Life doesn't get better than this...
Posts: 85
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Post by tom98250 on Oct 7, 2011 10:34:48 GMT -8
Anyone who thus modifies one of my threads will be summarily banned. Seeing as it's also already happened, Flugel has to go now. “No trespassing! Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.”...pretty harsh for someone who borrows from Charles Schultz for their avatar...  |
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