|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 28, 2020 13:25:49 GMT -8
Indeed, I think BC should be at the table. Asked at some point to chip in something besides their contribution in fares also because we just can't keep on doing things the same old way and expect better results. I can't see any appetite for a BC contribution while Canada is being continually attacked by the USA in a trade war. That may be the case, and it would be tragic if this run was terminated as a result. That said, WSF has a severe gulf between funding and domestic needs like a low income fare. Imagine if an island or a County decided to withhold their contribution to the State Ferry System and yet continue to receive service. That wouldn't go on for very long. |
|
Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,307
|
Post by Neil on Sept 28, 2020 21:55:06 GMT -8
I can't see any appetite for a BC contribution while Canada is being continually attacked by the USA in a trade war. That may be the case, and it would be tragic if this run was terminated as a result. That said, WSF has a severe gulf between funding and domestic needs like a low income fare. Imagine if an island or a County decided to withhold their contribution to the State Ferry System and yet continue to receive service. That wouldn't go on for very long. I don't think our American neighbors have any obligation to consult with Canadian legislators about the international run. At the same time, BC certainly has no obligation- and I don't think there's a precedent- to contribute to the 'odd man out' of the WSF system. If WSF has to spend limited resources elsewhere, it's understandable. I think it's been somewhere near a hundred years that a ferry has run from Anacortes or the Bellingham area to Vancouver Island. It would be a shame to lose it, but the fact is, Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay provides almost the same link, and it wasn't there when the Anacortes/Bellingham connection was established. |
|
|
|
Post by Mike C on Sept 30, 2020 8:51:52 GMT -8
That may be the case, and it would be tragic if this run was terminated as a result. That said, WSF has a severe gulf between funding and domestic needs like a low income fare. Imagine if an island or a County decided to withhold their contribution to the State Ferry System and yet continue to receive service. That wouldn't go on for very long. I don't think our American neighbors have any obligation to consult with Canadian legislators about the international run. At the same time, BC certainly has no obligation- and I don't think there's a precedent- to contribute to the 'odd man out' of the WSF system. If WSF has to spend limited resources elsewhere, it's understandable. I think it's been somewhere near a hundred years that a ferry has run from Anacortes or the Bellingham area to Vancouver Island. It would be a shame to lose it, but the fact is, Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay provides almost the same link, and it wasn't there when the Anacortes/Bellingham connection was established. Just adding my voice to this conversation as someone who has some knowledge of the ongoing work around COVID-relief funding for transportation agencies in BC: There is currently zero desire to engage in additional subsidies for services that are not considered absolutely essential or don't have a significant tangible benefit BC. Given the relatively low number of trips made to Sidney, I'm going to say that the current provincial government would much sooner allocate any available money for ferry service behind ensuring the long term sustainability of BC Ferries' existing services, rather than contributing to WSF. Washington State generally is not going to get a sympathetic ear from BC around the woes of state transportation funding and expect BC to cover those shortfalls. As it's been stated elsewhere on the forum, the provincial government has pledged $1b for the ferries, TransLink, and BC Transit. This money is expected to cover revenue shortfalls and added operational costs related to COVID in the medium-term - at this time, there's been some expectation-setting, and no one is planning on any additional funding to come specifically for transportation beyond this. At BC Transit for example, all service hours have been deferred indefinitely, including all previously committed money for the 2020-21 Provincial FY. We don't know yet how that's going to pan out for future years. Regarding the engagement piece, as others have noted, I suspect this is a non-issue for Victoria-area politicians who have some larger issues on their hands. Right now, constituents are more worried about where their next paycheque will come from rather than a part-time infrequent ferry service to the San Juans. The loss of service would be disappointing, but I don't think it would be tragic. |
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Sept 30, 2020 9:25:38 GMT -8
Just adding my voice to this conversation as someone who has some knowledge of the ongoing work around COVID-relief funding for transportation agencies in BC: There is currently zero desire to engage in additional subsidies for services that are not considered absolutely essential or don't have a significant tangible benefit BC. Given the relatively low number of trips made to Sidney, I'm going to say that the current provincial government would much sooner allocate any available money for ferry service behind ensuring the long term sustainability of BC Ferries' existing services, rather than contributing to WSF. Washington State generally is not going to get a sympathetic ear from BC around the woes of state transportation funding and expect BC to cover those shortfalls. As it's been stated elsewhere on the forum, the provincial government has pledged $1b for the ferries, TransLink, and BC Transit. This money is expected to cover revenue shortfalls and added operational costs related to COVID in the medium-term - at this time, there's been some expectation-setting, and no one is planning on any additional funding to come specifically for transportation beyond this. At BC Transit for example, all service hours have been deferred indefinitely, including all previously committed money for the 2020-21 Provincial FY. We don't know yet how that's going to pan out for future years. Regarding the engagement piece, as others have noted, I suspect this is a non-issue for Victoria-area politicians who have some larger issues on their hands. Right now, constituents are more worried about where their next paycheque will come from rather than a part-time infrequent ferry service to the San Juans. The loss of service would be disappointing, but I don't think it would be tragic. It's roughly the same on the Washington side of the line, which is likely why Sidney is on the cutting board again. WSDOT is in no financial position to keep the route going. I am very curious as to how this is all going to unfold, but my prediction is we will see the route die with no replacement service. After all, if you're on I-5 heading north, it's not too much of a stretch to continue on to Tsawwassen, in a post COVID world, that is. |
|
Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080 
|
Post by Nick on Sept 30, 2020 11:12:24 GMT -8
That may be the case, and it would be tragic if this run was terminated as a result. That said, WSF has a severe gulf between funding and domestic needs like a low income fare. Imagine if an island or a County decided to withhold their contribution to the State Ferry System and yet continue to receive service. That wouldn't go on for very long. I don't think our American neighbors have any obligation to consult with Canadian legislators about the international run. At the same time, BC certainly has no obligation- and I don't think there's a precedent- to contribute to the 'odd man out' of the WSF system. If WSF has to spend limited resources elsewhere, it's understandable. I think it's been somewhere near a hundred years that a ferry has run from Anacortes or the Bellingham area to Vancouver Island. It would be a shame to lose it, but the fact is, Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay provides almost the same link, and it wasn't there when the Anacortes/Bellingham connection was established. I lived in Sidney for 30 years, and I grew up there. I also used to visit the Puget Sound area on at least a yearly basis. In my we'll call it 25 trips over the years, I have never once taken the WSF ferry, and that's not without trying. I always wanted to, but the schedule never worked out. I have taken virtually every other method of transportation possible - Clipper, Coho, PM3 back in the day, and of course BCF. Virtually everybody I know has had the same experience.
I really don't think that losing the route would be that detrimental. I certainly don't want my tax dollars going to support it, especially when it's not supporting any local Canadian jobs in the marine industry.
Just to counter that last line re: An island or county withholding their contribution to WSF - The difference is the Saanich Peninsula does not need the link. It's not a lifeline. Goods aren't shipped, people don't use it to access needed medical treatments, and the biggest difference - WSF isn't obligated to provide it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Sept 30, 2020 12:46:12 GMT -8
I lived in Sidney for 30 years, and I grew up there. I also used to visit the Puget Sound area on at least a yearly basis. In my we'll call it 25 trips over the years, I have never once taken the WSF ferry, and that's not without trying. I always wanted to, but the schedule never worked out. I have taken virtually every other method of transportation possible - Clipper, Coho, PM3 back in the day, and of course BCF. Virtually everybody I know has had the same experience. I really don't think that losing the route would be that detrimental. I certainly don't want my tax dollars going to support it, especially when it's not supporting any local Canadian jobs in the marine industry. Just to counter that last line re: An island or county withholding their contribution to WSF - The difference is the Saanich Peninsula does not need the link. It's not a lifeline. Goods aren't shipped, people don't use it to access needed medical treatments, and the biggest difference - WSF isn't obligated to provide it. I've done the Anacortes-Sidney crossing a number of times in the past, though not in recent years. The last time I did it may have been 2006? - somewhere in that time frame. Anyway, I've always enjoyed the route, and it is a beautiful trip, but as you said, it isn't essential service. If you're in Washington somewhere along the I-5 corridor, it's just as easy, or maybe even easier, to drive up to Tsawwassen, and catch on one of the many daily Route 1 sailings. If you're on the Olympic Peninsula, you're going to take Coho, assuming that route survives COVID, too. Washington State Ferries has been operating in a deficit for a number of years, and the passage of the last anti-tax initiative along with COVID, has really put the ferry system in a bind. Sidney is low hanging fruit where cuts are concerned. |
|
Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
|
Post by Nick on Sept 30, 2020 13:13:23 GMT -8
I lived in Sidney for 30 years, and I grew up there. I also used to visit the Puget Sound area on at least a yearly basis. In my we'll call it 25 trips over the years, I have never once taken the WSF ferry, and that's not without trying. I always wanted to, but the schedule never worked out. I have taken virtually every other method of transportation possible - Clipper, Coho, PM3 back in the day, and of course BCF. Virtually everybody I know has had the same experience. I really don't think that losing the route would be that detrimental. I certainly don't want my tax dollars going to support it, especially when it's not supporting any local Canadian jobs in the marine industry. Just to counter that last line re: An island or county withholding their contribution to WSF - The difference is the Saanich Peninsula does not need the link. It's not a lifeline. Goods aren't shipped, people don't use it to access needed medical treatments, and the biggest difference - WSF isn't obligated to provide it. I've done the Anacortes-Sidney crossing a number of times in the past, though not in recent years. The last time I did it may have been 2006? - somewhere in that time frame. Anyway, I've always enjoyed the route, and it is a beautiful trip, but as you said, it isn't essential service. If you're in Washington somewhere along the I-5 corridor, it's just as easy, or maybe even easier, to drive up to Tsawwassen, and catch on one of the many daily Route 1 sailings. If you're on the Olympic Peninsula, you're going to take Coho, assuming that route survives COVID, too. Washington State Ferries has been operating in a deficit for a number of years, and the passage of the last anti-tax initiative along with COVID, has really put the ferry system in a bind. Sidney is low hanging fruit where cuts are concerned. This likely belongs in a different thread, but I would have a different opinion on the Coho/BlackBall link. That one truly does benefit both sides of the border. Hopefully BlackBall has deep enough pockets to weather this storm. |
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 30, 2020 13:13:36 GMT -8
Just adding my voice to this conversation as someone who has some knowledge of the ongoing work around COVID-relief funding for transportation agencies in BC: There is currently zero desire to engage in additional subsidies for services that are not considered absolutely essential or don't have a significant tangible benefit BC. Given the relatively low number of trips made to Sidney, I'm going to say that the current provincial government would much sooner allocate any available money for ferry service behind ensuring the long term sustainability of BC Ferries' existing services, rather than contributing to WSF. Washington State generally is not going to get a sympathetic ear from BC around the woes of state transportation funding and expect BC to cover those shortfalls. As it's been stated elsewhere on the forum, the provincial government has pledged $1b for the ferries, TransLink, and BC Transit. This money is expected to cover revenue shortfalls and added operational costs related to COVID in the medium-term - at this time, there's been some expectation-setting, and no one is planning on any additional funding to come specifically for transportation beyond this. At BC Transit for example, all service hours have been deferred indefinitely, including all previously committed money for the 2020-21 Provincial FY. We don't know yet how that's going to pan out for future years. Regarding the engagement piece, as others have noted, I suspect this is a non-issue for Victoria-area politicians who have some larger issues on their hands. Right now, constituents are more worried about where their next paycheque will come from rather than a part-time infrequent ferry service to the San Juans. The loss of service would be disappointing, but I don't think it would be tragic. It's roughly the same on the Washington side of the line, which is likely why Sidney is on the cutting board again. WSDOT is in no financial position to keep the route going. I am very curious as to how this is all going to unfold, but my prediction is we will see the route die with no replacement service. After all, if you're on I-5 heading north, it's not too much of a stretch to continue on to Tsawwassen, in a post COVID world, that is. I want to respond to both of these comments. First Mike C, once the border reopens next year it'd be tragic to add to the lost tourism base for the Saanich Peninsula and cost small businesses. It's also lost history. That said, alongside Kahloke I am not surprised at the lack of desire for financial aid from British Columbia for this run when the list of higher needs is long. But without bringing $$$ to the table when British Columbia calls on WSF to keep the run going and not support privatization; Assistant Secretary Amy Scarton is going to have to stand strong with me standing with her even if/when my friend Bowinn Ma is the next BC Transportation Minister. Tragic yes but that is the reality down here in Washington State. |
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 30, 2020 13:31:42 GMT -8
I don't think our American neighbors have any obligation to consult with Canadian legislators about the international run. At the same time, BC certainly has no obligation- and I don't think there's a precedent- to contribute to the 'odd man out' of the WSF system. If WSF has to spend limited resources elsewhere, it's understandable. I think it's been somewhere near a hundred years that a ferry has run from Anacortes or the Bellingham area to Vancouver Island. It would be a shame to lose it, but the fact is, Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay provides almost the same link, and it wasn't there when the Anacortes/Bellingham connection was established. I lived in Sidney for 30 years, and I grew up there. I also used to visit the Puget Sound area on at least a yearly basis. In my we'll call it 25 trips over the years, I have never once taken the WSF ferry, and that's not without trying. I always wanted to, but the schedule never worked out. I have taken virtually every other method of transportation possible - Clipper, Coho, PM3 back in the day, and of course BCF. Virtually everybody I know has had the same experience.
I really don't think that losing the route would be that detrimental. I certainly don't want my tax dollars going to support it, especially when it's not supporting any local Canadian jobs in the marine industry.
Just to counter that last line re: An island or county withholding their contribution to WSF - The difference is the Saanich Peninsula does not need the link. It's not a lifeline. Goods aren't shipped, people don't use it to access needed medical treatments, and the biggest difference - WSF isn't obligated to provide it.
So you would prefer not to chip in a few hundred thousand dollars to $500K as matching funds to WSF's to help keep small businesses on the Saanich Peninsula afloat? Wow. At least I now have a good read of the room. This I sincerely appreciate. |
|
|
|
Post by Mike C on Sept 30, 2020 14:14:03 GMT -8
Ok, two quick notes in response: First Mike C, once the border reopens next year it'd be tragic to add to the lost tourism base for the Saanich Peninsula and cost small businesses. It's also lost history. Tourism on the Saanich Peninsula does not depend on the existence of this service. It is already served by one of the busiest ferry routes in the country, has the second largest ferry terminal on the continent, and has an international airport with a few million travelers annually. It would not be a tragedy from an economic perspective. "Loss of history" does not constitute tragedy, either - historical precedence of a service like this does not guarantee its' longevity. Disappointment, not tragedy. So you would prefer not to chip in a few hundred thousand dollars to $500K as matching funds to WSF's to help keep small businesses on the Saanich Peninsula afloat? Wow. At least I now have a good read of the room. This I sincerely appreciate. Joe, I'm going to ask you to dial down the hyperbole here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they want to see a complete economic collapse of the Saanich Peninsula, we're trying to evaluate the merits of the service based on the realities in BC. The communities of Sidney and North Saanich have not, and will not, shut their doors as a result of losing a once-daily seasonal ferry service. I admit that I haven't seen the data for myself, but I am additionally unconvinced that the economic benefit and dollars spent in Sidney equal the cool half million you propose BC commits. The economy of that community would collapse, however, if the provincial government decided to allocate those dollars to that WSF service instead of spending it on maintaining BC Ferries' existing service levels, which brings far more traffic (and economic benefit) into the area. A single Spirit-class sailing would likely be 3-4x traffic and economic benefit than an international route round trip on an Issaquah. I would tend to agree with others that a service like the Coho does provide substantive economic benefits to both downtown Victoria and Port Angeles. I just don't think that's the case with Sidney-Anacortes. While it certainly does have some tangential economic benefit in Sidney, this is a "nice-to-have" for BC. |
|
|
|
Post by pacificcat99 on Sept 30, 2020 14:18:37 GMT -8
I wonder if WSF instead of maintaining almost year-round service could instead work to service the run seasonally (such as height of Summer and Christmas Time) when everything with COVID-19 is sorted out.
With family on Vancouver Island and living in Metro-Vancouver it is always a really enjoyable side-trip to take the BC Ferry to Victoria and then hop on in Sidney to take the WS ferry for either just a day trip stop in Friday Harbour or even to Friday Harbour and then continuing on to Orcas before heading to Anacortes and then driving back north.
The ferry always seems really busy around Christmas time with lots of RV's and families travelling whether they are going home or just on vacation and I am sure WSF could potentially make it profitable if they only run it at certain times per year.
I agree with what Mike said above that this route is much more important to Washington State/tourism throughout the San Juan Islands then it is to Sidney which is just basically where the dock is.
Just my two cents and I guess we will have to wait and see what WSF and Washington State chooses to do with the route.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blue Bus Fan on Sept 30, 2020 14:20:48 GMT -8
I don’t think BC Government truly cares about Anacortes to Sidney because it’s doesn’t really effect the population of BC due BC Ferries route 1. I think BC Ferries and BC Government would be ok to see the route go because of the competition of route with the Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay route.
|
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 30, 2020 14:28:09 GMT -8
Ok, two quick notes in response: First Mike C, once the border reopens next year it'd be tragic to add to the lost tourism base for the Saanich Peninsula and cost small businesses. It's also lost history. Tourism on the Saanich Peninsula does not depend on the existence of this service. It is already served by one of the busiest ferry routes in the country, has the second largest ferry terminal on the continent, and has an international airport with a few million travelers annually. It would not be a tragedy from an economic perspective. "Loss of history" does not constitute tragedy, either - historical precedence of a service like this does not guarantee its' longevity. Disappointment, not tragedy. So you would prefer not to chip in a few hundred thousand dollars to $500K as matching funds to WSF's to help keep small businesses on the Saanich Peninsula afloat? Wow. At least I now have a good read of the room. This I sincerely appreciate. Joe, I'm going to ask you to dial down the hyperbole here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they want to see a complete economic collapse of the Saanich Peninsula, we're trying to evaluate the merits of the service based on the realities in BC. The communities of Sidney and North Saanich have not, and will not, shut their doors as a result of losing a once-daily seasonal ferry service. I admit that I haven't seen the data for myself, but I am additionally unconvinced that the economic benefit and dollars spent in Sidney equal the cool half million you propose BC commits. The economy of that community would collapse, however, if the provincial government decided to allocate those dollars to that WSF service instead of spending it on maintaining BC Ferries' existing service levels, which brings far more traffic (and economic benefit) into the area. A single Spirit-class sailing would likely be 3-4x traffic and economic benefit than an international route round trip on an Issaquah. I would tend to agree with others that a service like the Coho does provide substantive economic benefits to both downtown Victoria and Port Angeles. I just don't think that's the case with Sidney-Anacortes. While it certainly does have some tangential economic benefit in Sidney, this is a "nice-to-have" for BC. I still think it'd be tragic for the reasons I stated but.... but..... It'd be a bigger tragedy - regardless of who's BC Transportation Minister and WSF Secretary next year - if BC Ferries Route 1 had to be cut to save seasonal Anacortes-Sidney. If that's what it comes down to; I accept the result. I think reading the virtual room so would me & everybody else here. I think it's going to be a heavy lift when not enough truly want to save the run/connection. That's what I needed to know. Finally, I hope the Coho can survive also. Since it seems the only US-CAN ferry connections folks will support post-Covid19 are seemingly 100% privatized. :-) |
|
Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
|
Post by Nick on Sept 30, 2020 14:39:15 GMT -8
I lived in Sidney for 30 years, and I grew up there. I also used to visit the Puget Sound area on at least a yearly basis. In my we'll call it 25 trips over the years, I have never once taken the WSF ferry, and that's not without trying. I always wanted to, but the schedule never worked out. I have taken virtually every other method of transportation possible - Clipper, Coho, PM3 back in the day, and of course BCF. Virtually everybody I know has had the same experience.
I really don't think that losing the route would be that detrimental. I certainly don't want my tax dollars going to support it, especially when it's not supporting any local Canadian jobs in the marine industry.
Just to counter that last line re: An island or county withholding their contribution to WSF - The difference is the Saanich Peninsula does not need the link. It's not a lifeline. Goods aren't shipped, people don't use it to access needed medical treatments, and the biggest difference - WSF isn't obligated to provide it.
So you would prefer not to chip in a few hundred thousand dollars to $500K as matching funds to WSF's to help keep small businesses on the Saanich Peninsula afloat? Wow. At least I now have a good read of the room. This I sincerely appreciate. The thing is, it's not going to keep the small businesses afloat. Most tourists who are coming to the peninsula via the Anacortes ferry are going to come regardless of whether the ferry is running or not. They will just take one of the other (usually MORE convenient) links. The ferry runs once per day (sometimes twice), carrying at best a few hundred people, the vast majority of whom carry right on into Victoria without stopping anywhere on the peninsula.
I really don't think the Provincial government kicking in $500k would be worth the investment. Unlike WSF's contribution, it wouldn't result in much, if any, direct employment (2 terminal attendants?). All vessel maintenance is conducted in WA, the ship is registered in USA, and the ship is supplied from Anacortes. If the Government doesn't get any income tax from direct employment, how exactly do they get their investment back? It's going to take a lot of 7% sales tax on a $5 coffee to get anything substantial.
To look at from a numbers perspective: In 2019, WSF carried 115,836 pax. If we assume traffic is evenly distributed, that's just under 60k people per year. If the Gov subsidized to the tune of 500k, we're effectively paying $8.33 for each person. They'd each have to spend $120 to get that back in sales tax.
|
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 30, 2020 14:49:34 GMT -8
So you would prefer not to chip in a few hundred thousand dollars to $500K as matching funds to WSF's to help keep small businesses on the Saanich Peninsula afloat? Wow. At least I now have a good read of the room. This I sincerely appreciate. The thing is, it's not going to keep the small businesses afloat. Most tourists who are coming to the peninsula via the Anacortes ferry are going to come regardless of whether the ferry is running or not. They will just take one of the other (usually MORE convenient) links. The ferry runs once per day (sometimes twice), carrying at best a few hundred people, the vast majority of whom carry right on into Victoria without stopping anywhere on the peninsula.
I really don't think the Provincial government kicking in $500k would be worth the investment. Unlike WSF's contribution, it wouldn't result in much, if any, direct employment (2 terminal attendants?). All vessel maintenance is conducted in WA, the ship is registered in USA, and the ship is supplied from Anacortes. If the Government doesn't get any income tax from direct employment, how exactly do they get their investment back? It's going to take a lot of 7% sales tax on a $5 coffee to get anything substantial.
To look at from a numbers perspective: In 2019, WSF carried 115,836 pax. If we assume traffic is evenly distributed, that's just under 60k people per year. If the Gov subsidized to the tune of 500k, we're effectively paying $8.33 for each person. They'd each have to spend $120 to get that back in sales tax.
There's also hotel tax to consider. From Tourism Victoria: So if the average hotel price is $200/room - and that's lowballing it a bit - that's $32 each person. After $8.33 for Anacortes-Sidney ferry support, that's $23.67 left over. Finally it's easy to get to $120 even without a hotel. So asking for something to help is reasonable. Saying no after thinking about it is reasonable also. At least I asked the question before it was too late where the hard core ferry fans were. |
|
Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
|
Post by Nick on Sept 30, 2020 14:55:06 GMT -8
The thing is, it's not going to keep the small businesses afloat. Most tourists who are coming to the peninsula via the Anacortes ferry are going to come regardless of whether the ferry is running or not. They will just take one of the other (usually MORE convenient) links. The ferry runs once per day (sometimes twice), carrying at best a few hundred people, the vast majority of whom carry right on into Victoria without stopping anywhere on the peninsula.
I really don't think the Provincial government kicking in $500k would be worth the investment. Unlike WSF's contribution, it wouldn't result in much, if any, direct employment (2 terminal attendants?). All vessel maintenance is conducted in WA, the ship is registered in USA, and the ship is supplied from Anacortes. If the Government doesn't get any income tax from direct employment, how exactly do they get their investment back? It's going to take a lot of 7% sales tax on a $5 coffee to get anything substantial.
To look at from a numbers perspective: In 2019, WSF carried 115,836 pax. If we assume traffic is evenly distributed, that's just under 60k people per year. If the Gov subsidized to the tune of 500k, we're effectively paying $8.33 for each person. They'd each have to spend $120 to get that back in sales tax.
There's also hotel tax to consider. From Tourism Victoria: So if the average hotel price is $200/room - and that's lowballing it a bit - that's $32 each person. After $8.33 for Anacortes-Sidney ferry support, that's $23.67 left over. Finally it's easy to get to $120 even without a hotel. So asking for something to help is reasonable. Saying no after thinking about it is reasonable also. At least I asked the question before it was too late where the hard core ferry fans were. You're assuming that everyone on the boat gets a hotel room - I doubt that number is anywhere near even 10%. Again, I stand by my assertion that most tourists who come via Anacortes will still come to the Peninsula, just via one of the other routes. There will be very little ACTUAL drop in tourist numbers. |
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Sept 30, 2020 14:58:29 GMT -8
OK nick - thanks for explaining. :-)
But also, as a transit dependent Skagitonian may I please just put to bed the idea that Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay is more convenient. Without Anacortes-Sidney, I'd have to take the Bolt Bus or Amtrak Cascades up to downtown Vancouver and then transfer to SkyTrain & a double-decker bus down to Tsawwassen. Then post-ferry another double-decker bus to Sidney & Victoria. Or fly in from downtown Vancouver to Victoria...
I have a working vacation (transit photography book is the working part + museum visits) trip planned for mid to late next year. As of now, just going to assume I'll need an entire day to get over there via the multimodal transit route I just gave. Then will take Victoria Clipper back to say I rode Victoria Clipper.
That said, a few working vacation trips a year are definitely NOT worth taking away someone's domestic ride to work or medical appointments that's for sure. I could I guess go the Coho route or get up boku early to go from Seattle to Victoria... and I hope everybody on both borders understands I was just trying to get an assessment of your thoughts on some BC aid. I empathize with BC's side on this.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,307
|
Post by Neil on Sept 30, 2020 20:31:17 GMT -8
Good discussion, above. This virus has forced so many decisions on where governments spend the public's money, and in many cases, sent ventures that were previously somewhat marginal into unsustainable territory. So it might be with WSF's international route. I really hope Black Ball can continue, since it is the very last unsubsidized car ferry operation in B.C. or Washington, aside from the wee Herron Island ferry.
Have to wonder about a prime piece of Sidney waterfront that is unused for a good part of the year, and used only for a very few hours even when the ferries are running. Does anybody know if BC Ferries still has the contract to manage the terminal?
|
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Oct 1, 2020 0:25:05 GMT -8
Thanks Neil.
My understanding is BC Ferries sold back to the City of Sidney, BC the ferry terminal once the threat of a private competitor using PacifiCats faded away.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,307
|
Post by Neil on Oct 1, 2020 9:32:24 GMT -8
Thanks Neil. My understanding is BC Ferries sold back to the City of Sidney, BC the ferry terminal once the threat of a private competitor using PacifiCats faded away. BC Ferries never owned the terminal. They had a lease to operate it, and I see that expired in 2011, at Sidney's urging. I don't think the Pacificats figured in the story in any way, as WMG never had any serious plans to put them into use. |
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Dec 13, 2020 12:14:26 GMT -8
Big update...
TVW this Thursday (17 December) will have the Joint Transportation Committee discuss Anacortes-Sidney privatization from 10:55 AM until 11:50 AM.
From what my state government sources tell me; there is little to no political nor factual support for the Washington State legislature privatizing this run.
Now the question becomes will Washington State Ferries be fully funded? One source tells me that's unlikely.
Stay tuned.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kahloke on Dec 13, 2020 12:43:22 GMT -8
Now the question becomes will Washington State Ferries be fully funded? One source tells me that's unlikely. Washington State Ferries hasn't been fully funded since the passage of I-695 20 years ago. So, yes, it is unlikely. |
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Dec 13, 2020 12:46:19 GMT -8
Now the question becomes will Washington State Ferries be fully funded? One source tells me that's unlikely. Washington State Ferries hasn't been fully funded since the passage of I-695 20 years ago. So, yes, it is unlikely. Fully funded to me is keep all of Washington State Ferries' runs whole. I don't see that as likely either. |
|
|
|
Post by Barnacle on Dec 16, 2020 9:45:04 GMT -8
Washington State Ferries hasn't been fully funded since the passage of I-695 20 years ago. So, yes, it is unlikely. Fully funded to me is keep all of Washington State Ferries' runs whole. I don't see that as likely either. I'm certainly not expecting to hear anything other than the same old stories: focus on core service, "streamlining" the budget, discussion about Sidney run, need for maintenance money vs. availability, reducing costs wherever we can... all pretty standard. Hopefully the Legislature will see the need for long-term investments (i.e. construction program) and fund another vessel. At least the Elwha is no longer an issue. Now if we could only clear out the Used Boat Lot in Eagle Harbor... |
|
|
|
Post by avgeekjoe on Jan 2, 2021 22:39:09 GMT -8
The Skagit Valley Herald finally got around to covering the state legislative hearing on privatizing this run. Most important part: Which I say is probably likely for a while... |
|
