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Post by ruddernut on Jul 14, 2008 9:07:03 GMT -8
That has certainly been the case in the past, and is likely the only reason the route is still operating today. WSF has been trying to pull out of the run for the past several years, but, as you eluded to, it's been highly politicized. Maybe the current economic downturn and rising fuel costs will be enough of a burden to outweigh the politics of the situation, and finally kill the route. Like I posted earlier, while it is a scenic crossing and a great tourist attraction, it really isn't providing essential service, nor is it generating enough profit to offset the operational costs. Of course, many of the other runs aren't, either, but they are at least providing essential service. It's time to kill the run. It just makes sense. No more customs, no more SOLAS certifications, an extra ferry absorbed back into the domestic fleet (which is badly needed right now), the list of benefits goes on. So much more reason I like my Roche Harbor idea. Build a terminal there, release the Chelan (or Elwha) back into domestic circulation, and perhaps loan or buy a cheap small second hand non-Jones (though SOLAS) compliant vessel for the Sidney-Roche run, and move Customs there. Victoria/Vancouver Island is too vital a location to lose the link to. And it's such a short hop away. |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 14, 2008 9:07:49 GMT -8
Indeed, as nice as it is, if it is being underutilized, it is not worth it to go through all the extras and would help the San Juans during heavy 4th of July Traffic.
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Post by DENelson83 on Jul 15, 2008 20:09:14 GMT -8
Why doesn't WSF simply build another Island Home-type vessel and perhaps add a terminal at Davison Head for travellers from Sidney? I looked at Roche Harbor on the NOAA charts and it looks too shallow and sheltered to put a ferry dock there. Edit: What the... There's a Horseshoe Bay on San Juan Island! N 48.589° W123.16675°.  |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 15, 2008 21:27:29 GMT -8
Why doesn't WSF simply build another Island Home-type vessel and perhaps add a terminal at Davison Head for travellers from Sidney? I looked at Roche Harbor on the NOAA charts and it looks too shallow and sheltered to put a ferry dock there. Surely you jest. WSF is paying nearly half a million dollars annually for the privilege of docking in Sidney so that they can lose money hand over fist, at least outside of the peak summer months. Traffic is dropping on the route, boats are scarce, and the reality is that WSF is primarily a short haul, commuter oriented system, not a tourist run operator. Tourism by Americans to Canada is down everywhere, and that isn't going to change substantially in the near future. Any talk of WSF making capital investments in service to Sidney, such as new terminals, has no grounding in reality; they've got enough on their plate renewing their fleet to serve the people who absolutely need it. |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 15, 2008 21:57:15 GMT -8
Exactly, it is not worth the money to operate out of Sidney? Why does WSF need another terminal on the San Juan Island? Currently, a budget defecit in this state of 2.5 billion is predicted. So the pocket books are tight.
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Post by ruddernut on Jul 15, 2008 22:19:00 GMT -8
Surely you jest. WSF is paying nearly half a million dollars annually for the privilege of docking in Sidney so that they can lose money hand over fist, at least outside of the peak summer months. Traffic is dropping on the route, boats are scarce, and the reality is that WSF is primarily a short haul, commuter oriented system, not a tourist run operator. Tourism by Americans to Canada is down everywhere, and that isn't going to change substantially in the near future. Any talk of WSF making capital investments in service to Sidney, such as new terminals, has no grounding in reality; they've got enough on their plate renewing their fleet to serve the people who absolutely need it. What about tourism by Canadians to America? They're the ones a public US based agency should be trying to woo. If WSF must pull out, so be it, but something should be done to keep the VI-SJI link alive, perhaps by getting a private provider to take over. Would Black Ball be interested? |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 15, 2008 23:10:24 GMT -8
It seems there are many more Canadian tourists based off the lines at the border on Sunday are more so for going into Canada and Friday viseversa.
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Post by BreannaF on Jul 16, 2008 3:20:59 GMT -8
Surely you jest. WSF is paying nearly half a million dollars annually for the privilege of docking in Sidney so that they can lose money hand over fist, at least outside of the peak summer months. Traffic is dropping on the route, boats are scarce, and the reality is that WSF is primarily a short haul, commuter oriented system, not a tourist run operator. Tourism by Americans to Canada is down everywhere, and that isn't going to change substantially in the near future. Any talk of WSF making capital investments in service to Sidney, such as new terminals, has no grounding in reality; they've got enough on their plate renewing their fleet to serve the people who absolutely need it. What about tourism by Canadians to America? They're the ones a public US based agency should be trying to woo. If WSF must pull out, so be it, but something should be done to keep the VI-SJI link alive, perhaps by getting a private provider to take over. Would Black Ball be interested? Simple observation shows that there are actually quite few Canadians vacationing on SJ Island. Are you suggesting that the only thing stopping them is more frequent ferry service. Please explain what can be done to significantly increase the number of people traveling in this direction. We can work out the numbers to see just how high ridership would have to go to pay for a new ferry or a new ferry dock, but I'm guessing that the number of hotels and attractions on the islands would have to double or triple to be able to accommodate the necessary number of people. My thought is that if ridership cold increase significantly, it would have increased somewhat based upon the options currently available. Please. How can it work? |
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Post by ruddernut on Jul 16, 2008 6:11:27 GMT -8
Simple observation shows that there are actually quite few Canadians vacationing on SJ Island. Are you suggesting that the only thing stopping them is more frequent ferry service. I've made that observation too. I found there were very few BC plates while I was there. I wonder why. Mind you, this was when the C$ was lower relative to the US$ than it is now. I suppose a poor sailing schedule could be one factor. As mentioned, more people may go if they wouldn't be stranded for the night. Better accessibility for short day trips may also help mooch more tourists that go to the Victoria area. Please explain what can be done to significantly increase the number of people traveling in this direction. We can work out the numbers to see just how high ridership would have to go to pay for a new ferry or a new ferry dock, but I'm guessing that the number of hotels and attractions on the islands would have to double or triple to be able to accommodate the necessary number of people. I suppose what SJI could also try and do is develop itself as a US shopping destination for Victoria area residents. Even if it doesn't pay for itself completely, having a ferry link to the west, in addition to that to the east, and giving them more choice of destination might be of some service to islanders who want to move around and have places to go. There's only so much fun you can have in Anacortes, and Seattle's a long drive away. |
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Post by Barnacle on Jul 16, 2008 6:26:10 GMT -8
I suppose what SJI could also try and do is develop itself as a US shopping destination for Victoria area residents. Even if it doesn't pay for itself completely, having a ferry link to the west, in addition to that to the east, and giving them more choice of destination might be of some service to islanders who want to move around and have places to go. There's only so much fun you can have in Anacortes, and Seattle's a long drive away. I somehow doubt that an island with a population in the neighborhood of 6500 would be a likely recipient of a mall-type affair, designed to attract the potential customers from a boat ride that is an hour and a half long, in another country, and operated by someone who doesn't want to operate the run and has been trying to get out of it for over twenty years. Anacortes is a metropolis, compared to Friday Harbor. |
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Post by ruddernut on Jul 16, 2008 6:54:42 GMT -8
Anacortes is a metropolis, compared to Friday Harbor. But falls well short of Victoria. |
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 16, 2008 8:08:32 GMT -8
Don't forget that Burlington and Mount Vernon are only 25 minutes away from Anacortes. While those two cities combined are still nowhere near the size of Victoria, the area still offers a lot of shopping and conveniences, and continues to grow in that arena. A lot of islanders go into Burlington to shop because it is relatively close.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 16, 2008 9:21:14 GMT -8
Driving across the border to shop is one thing. Waiting for a ferry, taking the time for the trip, and waiting for the return trip is another. The population of the lower mainland is large enough to generate a lot of traffic. The population of the lower Island is much more limited. Anyone in the mid Island area would use Duke Point and drive from Tswwassen to the border.
The higher proportion of retired people in the Victoria area as well would not lend itself to people driving farther distances to shop. These people are lower consumers of certain goods than younger families with children.
*spelling
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Post by Gilligan on Aug 7, 2008 20:57:42 GMT -8
Well to help clear things up a bit for all of you.
I am an employee at the Anacortes Ferry Terminal, and is what has happened is that WSF only wanted to sign month by month leases while the town of Sidney which happens to own the land that the terminal is on wanted a longer commitment. So BC Ferries Signed a 40 Year Lease with the town of sidney to operate and maintain the terminal.
BC Ferries then Contracts out to the company that I work for to Staff the terminal and do daily maintainance on it This is where I fit into the picture. I work for the company that staffs the terminal and we operate the ticket booth attendants (who are employees of WSF but are controlled and supervised by the company that I work for and then we check the vehicles in, match the reservations maintain the grounds..such as grass and watering the plants etc...and we maintain the bathrooms, wating area and all garbages and recycling. We load and unload the vehicles onto the ferry and we operate the hydraulic ramp. Basicaly the company that I work for who has a contract with BC ferries runs the entire operations of the terminal from ticket sales to loading and unloading the Ferry to cleanign the washrooms etc....
And financialy it makes alot of sense for BC ferries to do it this way as they don't have to pay us BC Ferry wages in turn saving them thousands and thousands of dollars in staff costs every year by contracting out to the company that I work for.
Working at the terminal I certainly hope that the run continues for a very very long time as it is how I make my living.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 8, 2008 7:51:07 GMT -8
Well to help clear things up a bit for all of you. I am an employee at the Anacortes Ferry Terminal, and is what has happened is that WSF only wanted to sign month by month leases while the town of Sidney which happens to own the land that the terminal is on wanted a longer commitment. So BC Ferries Signed a 40 Year Lease with the town of sidney to operate and maintain the terminal. Just a question...did you happen to mean the Sidney terminal and not Anacortes?  |
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Post by Opinionman on Sept 11, 2008 6:02:18 GMT -8
Yes, I meant the Sidney Terminal.
For those of us that work there we call it the Anacortes terminal because it is where the boat goes and all of the passengers always ask us if it is the Anacortes terminal LOL.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Dec 13, 2008 20:01:48 GMT -8
Question: If WSF doesn't operate to Sidney January through March, why do they operate November and December? Is there really any more traffic now than there would be in February? Isn't this essentially a warm weather, tourist route?
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 14, 2008 11:15:06 GMT -8
Question: If WSF doesn't operate to Sidney January through March, why do they operate November and December? Is there really any more traffic now than there would be in February? Isn't this essentially a warm weather, tourist route? Good question. Having worked the route in November-December, I can attest to the fact that a *good* day is a run with 20 cars in either direction. Sailing with 11-15 cars after mid October is not uncommon. It always picks up a bit during the holiday season, but the run loses money by the truckload during the late fall months. If not axed completely, I predict that they'll cut the service down again. It probably shouldn't be run save for summers anyway, or perhaps on "shoulder season" like they did with the Keystone run--say Memorial Day through the Canadian Thanksgiving. |
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 14, 2008 12:16:49 GMT -8
Question: If WSF doesn't operate to Sidney January through March, why do they operate November and December? Because they aren't between January and March? Essentially, you are correct. I think the main reason the route runs as late as it does is for the holiday season. However... let's see what 'old news' I have: My collection of Black Ball schedules is really scanty, but I show Sidney service: Summer 1934 (effective 6/15)-yes (Quilcene) Winter 1934 (11/8)-yes (Rosario) Summer 1936 (6/13)-yes (Quilcene) Summer 1941 (6/13)-yes (Vashon) Winter 1941 (10/19)-no (susp. until Apr. 1942) Spring 1942 (4/22)-yes (Vashon) Summer 1942 (7/1)-yes (Vashon) Summer 1949 (7/1)-yes (Nisqually, Vashon) WSF took over in June of 1951, of course. Positive proof, I have: "Service between Anacortes, Washington, and Sidney, B.C. (Canada), suspended during the period October 1, 1952 until approximately May 1, 1953." Service resumed on April 20 of that year, twice a day between May 29 and Sept. 30 except Sundays and holidays. Ditto between 10/1/53 and 4/26/54. Ditto between 10/1/54 and 4/18/55. (Heh... Summer 1955 schedule: "No reservations are necessary except from Orcas to Sidney. Nomally, ample space is available for vehicles. Be in cars ready to board ferry 15 minutes before sailing time.") Ditto between 10/1/55 and 3/26/56. (Also, summer service between Victoria & PA with Kalakala, 1956.) Ditto between 10/16/56 and 3/25/57. (Ditto VPA summer service 1957.) Ditto between 10/31/57 and 3/24/58. (Ditto VPA summer service, 1958.) Ditto between 10/31/58 and 3/23/59. (Ditto VPA summer service, 1959.) Service in 1959 went all the way to December 31; I don't know about Winter 1960 but Sidney service was back by March 21 if it shut down at all. By 1961 it was year-round, and I cannot find any further proof of winter shut-downs until 2003. |
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Post by blackballsghost on Dec 16, 2008 5:56:27 GMT -8
Question: If WSF doesn't operate to Sidney January through March, why do they operate November and December? Is there really any more traffic now than there would be in February? Isn't this essentially a warm weather, tourist route? ...If not axed completely, I predict that they'll cut the service down again. It probably shouldn't be run save for summers anyway, or perhaps on "shoulder season" like they did with the Keystone run--say Memorial Day through the Canadian Thanksgiving. Actually the draft 'Long Range Plan' is supposed to come out December 19th. We will see how certain matters are addressed (or phrased anyways) in the verbiage of the text. What I can say is that behind that report are some pretty drastic reductions if new dedicated funding sources are not found by the legislature including eliminating Sidney, dropping other runs and service, scaling the fleet to 17 vessels instead of 21-22. I imagine that once the full import sinks in it will be pretty newsworthy but the currently the money just isn't there. |
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 16, 2008 9:12:43 GMT -8
Let's see... once the Skagit and Kalama are gone, that will bring the total down to 20; it takes 18 to meet winter service needs (counting the rental unit). The legislature is going to have to cough up, on the basis that we've pretty much cut service to the bone.
I'd like to know if sufficient money could be saved on, say, the Winslow (!) run by slowing down the boats enough to add a crew and run all night. If the slowdown would pay for another crew and still save money, there's something that should be considered. Heck, they used to have an all-night boat back in the day... I think it ran 'around the horn' from Winslow to Bremerton, then back to Seattle. I'd have to delve into the schedules again, and the paper cuts haven't healed yet from last time. ;D
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Post by DENelson83 on Dec 16, 2008 14:54:21 GMT -8
BC Ferries should run the route in the off-season. They just need to procure the right kind of vessel built in a Seattle shipyard. Perhaps one that can carry 30 vehicles and 250 passengers. Double-ended, with bow visors at both ends.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Dec 16, 2008 15:39:05 GMT -8
We still have the EL BARTLETT here in the Ballard area of Seattle. Run that between Friday Harbor and Sidney. Let the Sidney traffic use the regular WSF runs between Anacortes and Friday Harbor (time these runs correctly, though).
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 16, 2008 16:45:09 GMT -8
We still have the EL BARTLETT here in the Ballard area of Seattle. Run that between Friday Harbor and Sidney. Let the Sidney traffic use the regular WSF runs between Anacortes and Friday Harbor (time these runs correctly, though). I've been advised that the El Barlett was given to the maritime training school in Seattle for a training ship. *Update: seattlecentral.edu/maritime/fleet.php |
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 17, 2008 14:56:17 GMT -8
BC Ferries should run the route in the off-season. They just need to procure the right kind of vessel built in a Seattle shipyard. Perhaps one that can carry 30 vehicles and 250 passengers. Double-ended, with bow visors at both ends. You mean, the really unprofitable part of the season? |
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