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Post by Barnacle on Dec 18, 2008 10:55:54 GMT -8
Budget proposal for 2009-2011 is out for the state of Washington. Included in the budgetary reductions, a savings of US$9.2 million by terminating the Sidney run, end of Summer 2009. www.ofm.wa.gov/budget09/highlights/transportation.pdfI guess I'll see about getting onto the Sidney run this summer, for one last go. |
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 18, 2008 13:32:37 GMT -8
I don't think anyone is too surprised by this, and I definitely think it is a good move. Question - is WSF under contract to provide service to Sidney until the end of the summer? Given the choice, wouldn't it be fiscally prudent to let that service die at the end of this season, and not start it again in the spring? And beyond budgetary reasons, Chelan is a boat that can be used domestically in the San Juans or on other routes at a time when the ferry system desperately needs vessels.
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Post by hergfest on Dec 18, 2008 13:42:47 GMT -8
They want to put the Hiyu on the South Vashon run too, don't know how that would save them money when it is constantly overloaded.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 18, 2008 15:10:54 GMT -8
Ferry to Sidney, B.C., a victim of budget cuts
The state plans to eliminate ferry service to Sidney, B.C., under Gov. Christine Gregoire's new budget.
By Susan Gilmore
Seattle Times staff reporter
The ferry between Anacortes and Sidney, B.C., will be eliminated under Gov. Christine Gregoire's new budget.
The ferry, which operates from early spring until the first week in January, carried 113,000 passengers last year — the lowest in the system, with just half a percent of total ferry ridership.
The state has been operating the route since 1951, when it took the system over from the Black Ball line.
Dropping the route will save $9.2 million, eliminating 35 jobs, Gregoire said in her budget. According to budget documents, service between Anacortes and Sidney will stop at the end of next summer.
David Moseley, head of the state ferry system, said eliminating the Sidney run "seemed to be the best way to achieve the cost savings we needed with the least impact on overall customers."
He said Sidney is an expensive route to run despite the higher ticket cost. Because it is so long, it uses a lot of fuel.
The ferry has long been a popular tourist route. Eileen Leddy, executive director of the Saanich Peninsula Chamber of Commerce, which includes Sidney, said cutting the route will have a huge impact on her community.
She hadn't heard that the governor planned to eliminate the Sidney run. "It's bad news for both communities," she said, referring to Sidney and Anacortes. "A lot of people come across on the ferry. This amounts to a lot of lost revenue, many thousands of dollars."
She predicts the governor's decision may not be a final one. "This is not a community that takes things lying down," she said. "People will be getting busy. The people have fought very hard to keep this service. It's important to Skagit County. It's important to the Saanich Peninsula."
Moseley said he isn't surprised. "I would expect that, that they would fight for it."
He said the governor's budget also calls for two other reductions in ferry service. The ferry on the Tahlequah-Point Defiance will be a smaller one. The 50-car Rhododendron will be replaced by the 34-car Hiyu. And the state will build just one ferry for the Port Townsend-Keystone route. It originally planned to build two, but bids came in so high that the state opted to just build one.
Susan Gilmore: 206-464-2054 or sgilmore@seattletimes.com
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Post by Starsteward on Dec 18, 2008 15:13:07 GMT -8
My understanding is that BC Ferries now has the operating rights to the dock in Sidney. Wondering if any of our American forum members see the possibility of BC Ferries providing a service here and if so, what vessel in the BC Ferry fleet would be most suitable?
<Grin> as apparently some forum members think we have an excess of under-utilized vessels.
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Post by Starsteward on Dec 18, 2008 15:16:26 GMT -8
If I might be so rude as to answer my own question, lol, DE Nelson has thrown a monkey-wrench into plans as there is the small matter of the Jones Act. Darn it!
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Nick
Voyager 
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080 
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Post by Nick on Dec 18, 2008 16:00:30 GMT -8
The Jones Act doesn't apply if the ship is making an international crossing. There have been many Canadian built-and-owned ships that have done that run prior to 1951, when WSF took over. In 1923, CP built the Motor Princess to serve a run from Sidney to Bellingham (the Jones act was passed in 1920).
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they would be allowed to stop at the SJI still too, as long as it was on the same run as Sidney. The reason I say this, is AMHS used to run the Wickersham (built in Norway, and closely related to our own QotN) from Bellingham to the various ports in Alaska, and this was legal as long as they stopped in Prince Rupert along the way.
There is still that small matter of no ships being available to take the run. As it is an international crossing, the ship would have to be SOLAS compliant, which none of the BCF ships are except for the Coastals and the NorAd. Also, the only ships that would be about the right size for the crossing would be the B class, or possibly the Chilliwack, all of which are needed for BCF's current fleet deployment.
All that said, I can see BCF being interested in operating the run during the summer months when it is reasonably busy. BCF is fairly good at advertising the tourism opportunities of it's runs, and with their ships' typically better passenger facilities, they might earn enough secondary revenue to make the trip worthwhile.
I know Washington State law doesn't allow another ferry operator to use facilities within a certain distance of a WSF terminal (5 miles sounds familiar?), but since WSF has voluntarily chosen to eliminate the run, would there be a possibility of them allowing to use current WSF facilities, providing that BCF pays them for the privilege?
Interesting to hypothesize about possible future situations, but I really don't think anything like this can happen. BCF is too preoccupied with their own falling ridership numbers, as well as their own funding shortfalls (albeit nowhere near as severe as WSF's).
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 18, 2008 16:06:18 GMT -8
BCF paying WSF to use one of their terminals? Now that would be a nice turnabout, since WSF has to pay BCF to dock at Sidney (that's correct, isn't it?). Re-iterating Nick's final comments, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for anything like this to happen, but I find the notion somewhat amusing - take that, BCF! ;D
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
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Post by Nick on Dec 18, 2008 16:13:14 GMT -8
Yes, from all accounts BCF is charging WSF a substantial amount to use the Sidney terminal, much more than they were charged under the previous lease agreement. Would be an interesting turn of events... but again, it's not going to happen.
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Post by DENelson83 on Dec 18, 2008 16:18:36 GMT -8
Well, a private company can always pick up the route and run it aground,  perhaps adding a terminal at either Roche Harbor or Davison Head. |
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 18, 2008 17:51:06 GMT -8
BCF paying WSF to use one of their terminals? Now that would be a nice turnabout, since WSF has to pay BCF to dock at Sidney (that's correct, isn't it?). Re-iterating Nick's final comments, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for anything like this to happen, but I find the notion somewhat amusing - take that, BCF! ;D Yep, that's correct. $1400.00 every time the Chelan touches is the dock. That's in addition to whatever the terms of the lease are, which runs through 2010. I believe Jones Act would prohibit any B.C. vessel from making two stops within the states. It'd have to be either a Sidney-Friday Harbor run or a Sidney-Anacortes run.(I'll have to ask Barnacle about this for sure, however.) I do know that State law right now prohibits any competing ferry company from operating within five miles of a state dock. I can't imagine why B.C. Ferries, in addition to having to SOLAS the boat (the terms of which are going to change...check "SOLAS 2010" for the details.) Assuming the figures from the state are accurate, they'd have to put out at least the 9.2 million the state does to run it. (I take that figure to include maintaining the vessel to SOLAS standards, crewing, fueling, docking lease, etc.) And that's with an Issaquah Class vessel, which are the most fuel efficient in the fleet. (Once upon a time the State used to boast that a fully fueled Issaquah class ferry could sail to Hawaii on one full tank.) For those who check on it, if you go to the WSF page that gives the vessel assignments for the upcoming work, etc, you'll note that the Elwha's bilge valve yard work has indeed vanished as of the December 15th update. |
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Post by blackballsghost on Dec 18, 2008 19:04:19 GMT -8
Budget proposal for 2009-2011 is out for the state of Washington. Included in the budgetary reductions, a savings of US$9.2 million by terminating the Sidney run, end of Summer 2009. www.ofm.wa.gov/budget09/highlights/transportation.pdfI guess I'll see about getting onto the Sidney run this summer, for one last go. Actually that isn't all that came out today in the proposed Governor's budget if you read the sepearte PDFs where stuff is buried: So far for the next two years (2009-2011) the Governor's proposed budget includes: - Cease operations to Sydney c. September 29, 2009. - San Juan Islands route down to 3 boats all year except for the summer when it will have 4. - Lay-up / De-crew the Evergreen State by December 2009, It will be re-crewed as the stand-by boat when the Hyak gets its 20 Year renovation in 2010 or so. - Port Townsend-Keystone will only have the one Island Home, there will not be two. - Keep the Rhododendron as the back-up vessel for Peirce County, when the Island Home comes online in June 2010 it will be retired in 06/2010. - Retire the Evergreen State in 06/2011. - Pt. Defiance-Tahlequah down-sized to the Hiyu. In addition, what will be coming out most likely in the Long Range Plan for tomorrow is going to upset just about every part of Puget Sound one way or another. I'd list what I have heard but it is too depressing in some ways. I imagine the ferries will be making the front page Saturday morning at the latest.. |
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 18, 2008 22:13:49 GMT -8
EGFleet's correct; Jones Act prohibits a foreign-registered vessel from making two consecutive US ports, or (I think) carrying cargo between same.
Has Moseley said what administrative cuts will be made? What is the sound of deafening silence?
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Post by blackballsghost on Dec 19, 2008 6:23:37 GMT -8
EGFleet's correct; Jones Act prohibits a foreign-registered vessel from making two consecutive US ports, or (I think) carrying cargo between same. Has Moseley said what administrative cuts will be made? What is the sound of deafening silence? I haven't heard about any specifc cuts per se other than some pretty drastic rumors internally and what came out in the Governor's budget yesterday. Naturally the fleet is the fleet and terminals are terminals so headcount is more or less fixed unless service cuts do happen or the size of the fleet reduced / routes abandoned. I did hear that Olympia / OFM has been looking hard at admin. requirements. They are intending to eliminate 6-7 positions in payroll and accounting and shift those functions to HQ in Olympia. Currently in the Capital side we are have been frozen at existing staffing levels by legislative proviso since January 2008 from the supplemental budget request. The draft long range plan comes out today: wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/planning/ESHB2358.htmAs I have heard there will be two alternatives presented to the public, Plan A which builds on broad-based implementaion of reservation systems and a scaled back capex or Plan B. Plan B assumes the ferries live within existing revenue sources and the implications are service reductions (i.e. no night boats on certain runs, no inter-island route etc.), no new vessels (144's) for years, and likely additional routes abandoned (turned over to local operators). |
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 19, 2008 14:10:39 GMT -8
Ferry link to Anacortes could be cut© Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist
By Richard Watts
The ferry link between Sidney and Anacortes, Wash. -- which has been running since the 1920s -- will shut down next year if a proposal from Washington's governor is approved. David Moseley, director of the Washington State Ferry System, said in a telephone interview last night the budget proposals released this week show an end to the ferry link by the end of September 2009. Moseley said dropping the route will save the ferry system just over $9 million annually. "It's not something we want to do, it's just economic reality." He said an end to the ferry link is not a certainty. The ferry service cut is listed in preliminary proposals for the state budget. The final budget will be approved sometime in April. Last year the Sidney-Anacortes ferry carried 113,000 passengers between spring and January, making it the lowest ridership in the Washington State Ferry System. But according to civic officials the ferry link is a huge boost to local economies on both sides of the border. Sidney Mayor Larry Cross said he has talked with Dean Maxwell, mayor of Anacortes, who is perhaps "even more concerned" than they are in Sidney. Cross said he was told meetings of Washington state municipal leaders are in the process of coming together. He pledged Sidney will do what it can to assist in saving the route. "It is one of those things, if cooler heads rule, at the end of the day, I think what will happen is they will not cut that ferry," he said. Figures for the route's economic impact on Sidney and Vancouver Island are imprecise. But Cross said a Washington state study showed the route generated $126 million in total tourism spending and $20.6 million in direct benefits. Eileen Leddy, executive director of the Saanich Peninsula Chamber of Commerce, noted 20,000 visits at the Sidney visitor centre arrived via the Sidney-Anacortes ferry. "That is a large component of our tourist traffic," said Leddy. "That brings a lot of dollars on to the Peninsula." She predicted the Saanich Peninsula Chamber's sister cities committee and other links with Anacortes and Skagit County would begin efforts quickly to see the ferry link maintained. "I don't panic until I hear the final word," said Leddy. The Washington State Ferry System has faced red ink since 1999, when voters repealed a motor vehicle tax that provided the ferries with a large portion of their funding. With money tight, the Sidney-Anacortes service was reduced in 2003. There's now no service for three months each winter. www.timescolonist.com/Ferry+link+Anacortes+could/1094688/story.html
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 19, 2008 17:18:55 GMT -8
Has Moseley said what administrative cuts will be made? What is the sound of deafening silence? I haven't heard about any specifc cuts per se other than some pretty drastic rumors internally and what came out in the Governor's budget yesterday. Naturally the fleet is the fleet and terminals are terminals so headcount is more or less fixed unless service cuts do happen or the size of the fleet reduced / routes abandoned. I did hear that Olympia / OFM has been looking hard at admin. requirements. They are intending to eliminate 6-7 positions in payroll and accounting and shift those functions to HQ in Olympia. Currently in the Capital side we are have been frozen at existing staffing levels by legislative proviso since January 2008 from the supplemental budget request. The draft long range plan comes out today: wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/planning/ESHB2358.htmAs I have heard there will be two alternatives presented to the public, Plan A which builds on broad-based implementaion of reservation systems and a scaled back capex or Plan B. Plan B assumes the ferries live within existing revenue sources and the implications are service reductions (i.e. no night boats on certain runs, no inter-island route etc.), no new vessels (144's) for years, and likely additional routes abandoned (turned over to local operators). The problem with turning routes over to 'local operators,' of course, is that we (WSF) would be daft to turn over the profitable runs, and and the less-profitable ones... like Port Townsend-Keystone? That's how we ended up with the run in the first place, when Olympic Ferries rather abruptly went bankrupt in 1974. I'd be in favor of a reservation system, myself. It'd put an end to some of the whining about line-jumping. Or maybe fixing the ticket-purchasing kiosk that relies upon the honesty of the purchaser to actually pay full adult fare instead of senior/youth (they all scan the same). What a mess. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 19, 2008 18:33:58 GMT -8
news story from CFAX 1070 website:
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B-C FERRIES (ALSO) CAUGHT BY SURPRISE BY WASHINGTON DECISION
Dec 18, 2008
THE OWNER OF THE SIDNEY FERRY TERMINAL SAYS THERE HAS BEEN NO NOTIFICATION OF ANY INTENT (BY WASHINGTON STATE FERRIES) TO CANCEL THE SERVICE.
THE B-C FERRY CORPORATION SAYS THERE IS A LEASE CONTRACT IN PLACE THROUGH 2011, AND IT EXPECTS TO BE PAID WHETHER THE AMERICAN COMPANY IS ACTUALLY RUNNING A FERRY OR NOT.
B-C FERRIES SPOKESPERSON DEBORAH MARSHAL SAYS SHE CAN'T REVEAL THE AMOUNT OFMONEY INVOLVED, BUT SAYS THE CONTRACT PROVIDES FOR AN ANNUAL LUMP SUM PLUS MONTHLY INSTALLMENTS.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 20, 2008 10:10:45 GMT -8
Docking-fee cut could save Sidney ferry run, official says
Mayor of Anacortes urges B.C. Ferries to lower tie-up charges
By Richard WattsDecember 20, 2008
B.C. Ferries could help its Washington state counterparts keep up the Sidney-Anacortes run sailing, the mayor of Anacortes suggested yesterday.
Dean Maxwell said in a telephone interview B.C. Ferries could help keep the Washington State Ferries plying the run to Sidney by lowering the rent it charges to use the dock facilities.
Maxwell said he knows some consternation has arisen over an increase in the fees B.C. Ferries charges Washington State Ferries to tie up in Sidney. A re-evaluation of those charges could help the cause of keeping the run open, he added.
"These are some of the small things that can help," said Maxwell. "We just need to work hard to understand the value of this run for all of us."
Earlier this week it was learned the Washington state governor's preliminary budget proposes an end of the ferry link between Sidney and Anacortes in September 2009. The plan to end the ferry run isn't a done deal yet, since the budget won't be finalized until April. Cancelling the run would save WSF just over $9 million per year.
Local officials in Sidney were horrified yesterday upon learning of the proposal, saying the run is a major economic benefit to the entire Saanich Peninsula and Vancouver Island.
B.C. Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall said her company is willing to talk with the town of Sidney and Washington State Ferries on the future of the Sidney-Anacortes run.
However, Marshall said she couldn't discuss the monetary terms or conditions of the docking agreement for the facility in Sidney.
The dock is actually owned by the municipality, which put $4 million into renovating it in 2007 and then signed a lease with B.C. Ferries to manage it.
Marshall said last March, B.C. Ferries signed a three-year deal with Washington State Ferries to use the dock, with an option for a two-year extension.
Back in Anacortes, Maxwell said he can still recall the battle 10 years ago when the Sidney-Anacortes run was first slated for cancellation. He had mail from people all over the world saying how much they had enjoyed the ride. "It's one of the most beautiful runs in the United States," said Maxwell.
He added that shutting it down would be a would be a serious mistake, even with present economic difficulties.
"It's a marine highway," said Maxwell. "We are not in the business of closing highways.
"Times are difficult here in the United States, but to get rid of infrastructure in the middle of an economic downturn would be a travesty."
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 23, 2008 10:52:48 GMT -8
Editorial: Anacortes ferry faces rough water
© Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist
December 23, 2008
Once again, the Sidney-Anacortes ferry run is under threat. The preliminary budget proposal from Washington's governor calls for the route to be dropped next September, a move that would save the state-owned ferry service $9 million a year.
It's not a lot of money, given that Gov. Christine Gregoire is chopping $3.5 billion from the budget, but the ferry is a high-profile target at a time when money is tight.
Ferries have been running between Sidney and Anacortes for more than 80 years, and Washington State Ferries has had the route since 1951. It's a beautiful voyage, with plenty of views of small islands and little harbours, and it is popular with both tourists and locals. The service nicely complements the other ferry routes connecting Vancouver Island to the mainland.
We would hate to see the route dropped, but we need to be realistic about its challenges. The route had only 113,000 passengers last year, making it the least-used route in the state ferry system. It is also the longest run, using more fuel than the more popular routes.
The international service poses problems at Anacortes because vehicles from the Canadian route must be segregated from local traffic for processing by customs officials. At times, ferries heading to the San Juan Islands are delayed because of congestion from the Sidney service.
The ferry that stops at Sidney is the Chelan, with a capacity of 124 vehicles and 1,076 passengers. The Chelan might not be a match, in terms of passenger comforts, for the Spirits or the Coastals in the B.C. Ferries fleet, but it is one of the stars of the Washington fleet. At a time when the system is scrambling to find vessels to meet its needs, it could be argued that the Chelan is wasted on the Sidney route.
Cancellation of the route would be bad news for Sidney, which owns the ferry terminal and spent $4 million renovating it in 2007. It could also be bad for B.C. Ferries, which operates the terminal.
But will it come to that? This is not the first time the future of the run has been in doubt and there has always been a solution.
This time, Mary Margaret Haugen, the chair of the state senate's transportation committee, has promised to do what she can to keep the route alive. The business communities in Anacortes and Sidney are also on board.
Haugen has suggested increasing fares. That might help, because Washington's legislators will need to believe that the deficits will end.
Protesting the planned cancellation is not good enough. What's needed is a strong business case.
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 23, 2008 12:10:48 GMT -8
And that's the problem right now - the route doesn't make a strong business case. Low ridership, high landing fees at Sidney, SOLAS Certification (and the upgrades required to make a vessel SOLAS compliant), US Customs issues, and the fact that this route is not really "essential service", all conspire to kill it given today's economic conditions. I like the Sidney run, too, but I don't think it makes sense to keep it if they are going to cut service in other, more essential, parts of the system.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 23, 2008 15:56:35 GMT -8
And that's the problem right now - the route doesn't make a strong business case. It doesn't even make a weak business case. I will hate to see it go, and I will certainly try to get a job on it for the summer if summer will be last and final boarding call, but I don't think the run can be defended economically. Washington State really isn't beholden to the Tourist Bureau of the Greater Saanich Peninsula, are they? |
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Post by ferryrider42 on Dec 23, 2008 17:27:48 GMT -8
I tend to agree; hate to see the route leave, but WSF shouldn’t have to foot a 9 million dollar bill, so Vancouver Island can rake in a few tourist dollars.
If Sidney and Victoria are so concerned, they should take matters into their own hands and start contributing to the ferry’s operating costs. What do you think; split it half way at 4.5 million per year? (Obviously the city doesn’t have this kind of money, but I think it demonstrates the imbalance of the current situation)
What is really surprising me, is that even with all the media coverage, I haven’t heard any rumblings from a ‘Save Our Anacortes Ferry’ group; the passion for the route from the masses seems to have died. I really get the sense that this time, the route is finished.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Dec 23, 2008 19:40:09 GMT -8
I say, I'll miss the run but shut it down.
Or if our friends to the north want it so bad make BC ferries pay for it. Why tell them to use one of their boats on it, and let us charge them for using our dock in Anacortes?
Best of Both Worlds.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 24, 2008 8:30:00 GMT -8
I tend to agree; hate to see the route leave, but WSF shouldn’t have to foot a 9 million dollar bill, so Vancouver Island can rake in a few tourist dollars. If Sidney and Victoria are so concerned, they should take matters into their own hands and start contributing to the ferry’s operating costs. What do you think; split it half way at 4.5 million per year? (Obviously the city doesn’t have this kind of money, but I think it demonstrates the imbalance of the current situation) What is really surprising me, is that even with all the media coverage, I haven’t heard any rumblings from a ‘Save Our Anacortes Ferry’ group; the passion for the route from the masses seems to have died. I really get the sense that this time, the route is finished. I agree, but don't let the American side off either. If Anacortes claims 20 million in tourist dollars, well then, pony up and help pay for the run. |
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 24, 2008 22:09:41 GMT -8
And what about the crew? Canadian or U.S.? There's differences in Washington State Labour and B.C. Labour laws. Relevance? Are cruise ships under foreign registry required to comply with US labor laws when they pull into a US port? Does the BCFMWU cut the paychecks, or BC Ferries (which, while a "corporation," only has one shareholder--the Crown)? WSF employees are represented by five different unions on the vessels and in the terminals. |
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perhaps adding a terminal at either Roche Harbor or Davison Head.
