Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,307
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Post by Neil on Dec 24, 2008 22:59:13 GMT -8
. WSF employees are part of the snivel service. 'Snivel service'? |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 25, 2008 10:17:43 GMT -8
. WSF employees are part of the snivel service. 'Snivel service'? Dictionary research: Main Entry: sniv·el Pronunciation: \ˈsni-vəl\ Function: intransitive verb : to cry or whine with snuffling : to speak or act in a whining, sniffling, tearful, or weakly emotional manner Sounds like a rude comment to me....or maybe just some politics seeping out from somewhere inside? |
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Post by Kahloke on Dec 25, 2008 12:20:42 GMT -8
But it wouldn't be overnight, there would be an advance notice of cancellation so when that happens there would be an opporutnity to take on a sail. Unless WSF decides to pull the plug early and not re-instate service in the spring. I'm not saying they will, because I really don't know, but it's a possibility. |
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 25, 2008 13:03:45 GMT -8
But it wouldn't be overnight, there would be an advance notice of cancellation so when that happens there would be an opporutnity to take on a sail. Unless WSF decides to pull the plug early and not re-instate service in the spring. I'm not saying they will, because I really don't know, but it's a possibility. Possible, but even the Guv's budget, with its many cuts, still has the run going until the end of summer '09 schedule. |
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Post by Guest on Dec 26, 2008 6:51:31 GMT -8
From what i heard, the Chelan was pretty full most runs last summer schedule.....why not just keep the Sidney run for summers only? I realize that trying to rationalize the state's decisions can be futile but it makes sense to me anyways.
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 26, 2008 8:50:37 GMT -8
From what i heard, the Chelan was pretty full most runs last summer schedule.....why not just keep the Sidney run for summers only? I realize that trying to rationalize the state's decisions can be futile but it makes sense to me anyways. Having worked on the Chelan all summer I can say no, that was not the case. (Particularly on the evening sailing.) Weekends were always pretty good, but during the week we were at best half full for much of summer. I heard before I left in September that the number of passengers were down for May, June, and July, and August just barely matched the numbers from the previous year. |
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Post by hergfest on Dec 28, 2008 17:32:17 GMT -8
Sucks the Chelan isn't getting a paint job this year, she is looking pretty bad.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 28, 2008 20:58:47 GMT -8
Yeah, well... same anser as last year. She's still running, and in the current maint state of the fleet, that automatically gets your shipyard time curtailed.
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Post by roeco on Jan 3, 2009 0:23:22 GMT -8
In terms of SOLAS compliance.how did the Burnaby as the Princess Marguerite operate Victoria to Seattle?? I would assume she would have had to comply with SOLAS? And the Coho could easily operate Sidney to Port Angeles or Anacortes with the existing or a 2nd ship.
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 3, 2009 0:54:12 GMT -8
To add to 'roeco''s question you can add the Queen of Prince Rupert when she went on the Victoria- Seattle run in 1981?
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 3, 2009 1:35:22 GMT -8
And the Coho could easily operate Sidney to Port Angeles or Anacortes with the existing or a 2nd ship. Not easily. Don't forget that Coho has side doors on the bow end of the ship, which means one of the docks has to be a side-loader, like what Victoria currently has. docks stern-in at Port Angeles:  docks parallel at Victoria:  |
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 3, 2009 8:46:39 GMT -8
If I remember correctly you still drive around the central casing that holds the stairs etc. So even if they just loaded and unloaded by the stern, except for trucks and motor homes, you could drive on in a circular pattern. I think the side loading as well was a necessity for the Victoria Harbour.
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 3, 2009 9:16:46 GMT -8
You can, but with a full load of cars, that would be a logistical nightmare, and as you mentioned, there is that issue with trucks and RVs; they would have to back off at one end, as there really is no room for them to turn around in there.
I do kind of wonder what's going to happen with that route and the Coho. She'll be 50 years old this year, and even though she seems to be well maintained, at some point in the not-too-distant future, they are going to have to replace her, or just let the run die. I hope that doesn't happen. I like that crossing, and I like sailing into Victoria's Inner Harbour, so I really hope Victoria will continue to allow that to happen - I know there's been some controversy there.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Jan 3, 2009 11:23:42 GMT -8
In terms of SOLAS compliance.how did the Burnaby as the Princess Marguerite operate Victoria to Seattle?? I would assume she would have had to comply with SOLAS? To add to 'roeco''s question you can add the Queen of Prince Rupert when she went on the Victoria- Seattle run in 1981? In both situations I'm assuming that the vessels met whatever the SOLAS requirements were during the time they were used on the Seattle - Victoria route. I don't know when the requirements that resulted in the Evergreen State and Elwha going through significant upgrades went into effect. |
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 3, 2009 22:06:04 GMT -8
I'm also going to make a casual mention here of the new requirements that are supposed to go into efect next year... isn't there a SOLAS-2010 set of requirements that will render most if not all of the international fleet obsolete?
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Post by EGfleet on Jan 14, 2009 9:00:36 GMT -8
Cutting Sidney run part of state ferries’ cost savings plan
Email | Print Joan Pringle | Anacortes American
January 14, 2009 - 05:10 AM
Short on funds and faced with replacing an aging fleet, Washington State Ferries sees the Anacortes to Sidney run much differently than local leaders arguing it’s an economic benefit to the state.
“Because of financial constraints the ferry system is facing, we had to look at cost savings throughout the system,” said WSF Communications Director Marta Coursey. “The second issue is maintaining the core marine highway system.”
Eliminating the international run — and cutting back service on other Puget Sound runs — is a key strategy in one of two draft long-range plan options that will go before the Legislature. In essence, option B pares back service to cut operating costs and allows the state to defer buying new ferries and reduce capital spending.
Some aging ferries still have to be retired, but Plan B allows the state to shuffle the Sidney boat and others around to fill in the gaps.
In the first option, the agency retains its role “as a principal owner and operator of the marine transportation system in the Puget Sound region and maintains the current service level.” The second option has WSF reducing “the size of the WSF fleet and service levels on a number of routes.”
Neither option puts the system in the black, but the losses are “significantly smaller” under option B, according to WSF.
WSF proposes to purchase 10 vessels within the 22-year plan in option A, but only five in option B.
Beyond the replacement of one Steel Electric ferry for the Port Townsend/Keystone route proposed in 2011 in both plans, the next boat purchase in the second option doesn’t happen until 2021.
“The overall intent of Plan B (the first two years of which are incorporated into the governor’s budget proposal) is to reduce the size of the system to fit within a smaller operating and (more importantly) capital financial framework,” WSF planning director Ray Deardolf said in an e-mail. “Under Plan B, several vessels are retired and simply not replaced, providing the bulk of the cost savings in comparison with Plan A.”
Deardolf explained the 87-vehicle Evergreen State ferry serving the San Juan inter-island route is one of two vessels next in line for retirement. In plan A, it is replaced. But in Plan B, it’s not along with other vessels down the line.
The ferry normally serving the Sidney route in the fall and spring would be used to fill the gap left by the Evergreen State.
The Chelan, which makes two round trips to Sidney and one round trip to the San Juan Islands daily in the summer, would replace the Sealth as the summer maintenance relief vessel, Deardolf said. That will allow the Sealth to take the place of the Evergreen State on the inter-island route.
Not replacing the Evergreen State saves “the capital cost of replacement and ongoing operating, maintenance and preservation costs of the vessel,” Deardolf said.
A local Save Our Ferry group argues the run more than pays to operate itself through fare box revenue and millions of dollars generated by related economic activity.
But Deardolf said only fare box, galley and duty-free store revenue were factors taken into consideration when making the decision to eliminate the run.
“No estimate of sales tax revenue loss or other economic impacts were conducted,” he said.
The fare box, galley and duty-free store revenue would amount to $4.5 million compared to the $9.2 million in operating expenses during the first biennium if the run is canceled at the end of September as planned in Gov. Christine Gregoire’s proposed biennium budget.
“It’s not really a revenue issue,” Coursey said. “All of our routes generate some revenue but the cost of the system exceed what we generate.”
As for the second issue — maintaining the core marine highway — “Sidney does not fulfill that,” she said.
“We were asked to look at a variety of considerations. Number one being in a severely financially constrained system, what would be the bare bones service we would need to provide in order to maintain all of our domestic routes — what we call the core highway system with the marine highway if you will,” Coursey said.
“We can still maintain our core highway system, marine system, without the Sidney route,” she said.
Other route cuts in Plan B include reduced inter-island service in the San Juans and no night sailings on the Bremerton and Edmonds runs. The Port Townsend-Keystone run would have one boat all year. *
*** Italics are mine, not the article.
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Post by Guest on Jan 14, 2009 11:22:26 GMT -8
Per a request of the office the SOLAS documentation was offically removed from the Elwha yesterday.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 14, 2009 11:33:26 GMT -8
Per a request of the office the SOLAS documentation was offically removed from the Elwha yesterday. Which office? |
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Post by ferryrider42 on Jan 15, 2009 19:57:14 GMT -8
The below article was published in the Sidney newspaper. It lists the following sites. Website : www.saveourferry.netFacebook group : Save the Sidney-Anacortes Ferry ============= Plan to save ferry run underway
Peninsula News Review
Published: January 13, 2009 1:00 PM
By Laura Lavin - editor@peninsulanewsreview.com
Residents of Sidney and Anacortes are banding together in an attempt to save the Sidney to Anacortes ferry run. A website, www.saveourferry.net, has been set up by the Anacortes Save Our Ferry Committee and a local woman has created a Facebook group, Save the Sidney-Anacortes Ferry. This is in response to a December announcement from Washington State Governor Christine Gregoire to eliminate the service as a cost cutting measure, effective at the end of summer this year. Sidney Mayor Larry Cross and councillor Kenny Podmore [council liaison to the ferry] travelled to Anacortes City Hall in Washington last week to attend a meeting with Anacortes officials and others affected by the potential loss of the run, including the Chamber of Commerce and key stake holders from the San Juan Islands, the county government and the county economic development agency. “They are certainly determined that they can convince the people down in Olympia, the people in power, that this is not the way to save money,” said Cross. Cross was impressed by the passion and concern from Anacortes Mayor Dean Maxwell and others in attendance at the meeting. “I was really impressed with the energy and commitment and purposefulness of the people I met there. They are going to change this if they possibly can,” Cross said. “We are passionate about the ferry here — but are they passionate about it there,” agreed Podmore. Cross said the argument that cancelling the ferry run will save money doesn’t hold up. “The economic analysis shows a net loss to the state if they cut the ferry run,” he said. A study recently published showed that approximately 1,470 jobs with more than $30 million in annual payroll and nearly $126 million in annual spending are directly and indirectly associated with the ferry service within the Northern Puget Sound region (Island, San Juan, Skagit, Snohomish, and Whatcom counties.) Gregoire stated cutting the run would save the government $9 million. “Although no exact figures exist on the local and regional economic impact of Washington State Ferry service to Sidney, information acquired anecdotally puts the figure in the millions of dollars,” said Peninsula Chamber of Commerce executive director Eileen Leddy. “We want to get organized on our side,” said Cross. “We’re going to approach the Sidney Business Association, the Peninsula Chamber of Commerce … Sidney Sister Cities Association, the Community Arts Council, interested neighbour municipalities, tourism Victoria, service clubs, all the groups we can think of to put together and form a task force, and rally support for the ferry run.” Politically, Cross said he committed to keep in touch with officials from Anacortes and keep on top of what they are doing. “We committed to going to Olympia, or anywhere our presence would be of assistance.” On January 15, Washington Sate Ferries will present its Long Range Plan for public comment in Anacortes. |
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 15, 2009 22:47:41 GMT -8
I think it's going to take a lot to save the run this time around. There are just too many strikes against keeping it going, most of which have been mentioned repeatedly in this thread.
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Post by EGfleet on Jan 21, 2009 11:55:22 GMT -8
VICTORIA WRITES WASHINGTON ABOUT ANACORTES FERRY CANCELLATION
Jan 21, 2009
VICTORIA CITY COUNCIL HAS VOTED TO WRITE WASHINGTON STATE FERRIES AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE--APPEALING THE BUDGET CUTBACK THAT WOULD CANCEL THE SIDNEY-ANACORTES FERRY SERVICE.
MAYOR DEAN FORTIN SAYS HE WAS ASKED TO BRING IT TO COUNCIL BY HIS COUNTERPART IN SIDNEY- BUT IT DIDN'T TAKE MUCH SELLING.
FORTIN AGREES IT'S A REGIONAL CONCERN.
"PEOPLE FRANKLY THAT COME ACROSS ON THAT FERRY LEAVE SIDNEY AND BUTCHART GARDENS, THEY ALSO COME DOWNTOWN AND SHOP AND USE RESTAURANTS AND EVEN STAY OVERNIGHT, THAT TYPE OF THING."
THE LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN BEING PROMOTED BY SIDNEY, WILL CLAIM THAT CLOSING THE RUN WILL ACTUALLY BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE IN WASHINGTON--THAT THE ECONOMIC HARM TO THE PUGET SOUND AREA WOULD ACTUALLY OUTWEIGH THE MINOR SAVINGS ACHIEVED.
****
Sorry about the all caps, but that is how it appeared on the website.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on Jan 21, 2009 13:37:28 GMT -8
VICTORIA WRITES WASHINGTON ABOUT ANACORTES FERRY CANCELLATION Jan 21, 2009 VICTORIA CITY COUNCIL HAS VOTED TO WRITE WASHINGTON STATE FERRIES AND THE STATE LEGISLATURE--APPEALING THE BUDGET CUTBACK THAT WOULD CANCEL THE SIDNEY-ANACORTES FERRY SERVICE. MAYOR DEAN FORTIN SAYS HE WAS ASKED TO BRING IT TO COUNCIL BY HIS COUNTERPART IN SIDNEY- BUT IT DIDN'T TAKE MUCH SELLING. FORTIN AGREES IT'S A REGIONAL CONCERN. "PEOPLE FRANKLY THAT COME ACROSS ON THAT FERRY LEAVE SIDNEY AND BUTCHART GARDENS, THEY ALSO COME DOWNTOWN AND SHOP AND USE RESTAURANTS AND EVEN STAY OVERNIGHT, THAT TYPE OF THING." THE LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN BEING PROMOTED BY SIDNEY, WILL CLAIM THAT CLOSING THE RUN WILL ACTUALLY BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE IN WASHINGTON--THAT THE ECONOMIC HARM TO THE PUGET SOUND AREA WOULD ACTUALLY OUTWEIGH THE MINOR SAVINGS ACHIEVED. **** Sorry about the all caps, but that is how it appeared on the website. I say either make them pay for it or shut it down! |
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Post by landlocked on Jan 21, 2009 13:56:12 GMT -8
Well, isn't that just deserts for Sidney! Looks good on them. WSF have been talking for years about cancelling the run due to lower than desired ridership. It's not part of their core business and one that I'm sure the State would look at first if they're trying to reduce costs.
So, Sidney, instead of entering into fruitful discussions with the State about how they could all collectively increase ridership, gave the management of the terminal to a third party. This third party isn't going to manage the property for free. They would want to see a profit off it.
So now their longtime tenant has said, "Well, this move to lease out the terminal and then sublet to us has tipped the lack of viability of the route over the edge". And Sidney is somehow surprised and dismayed by this?
Give your heads a shake folks!
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Post by Barnacle on Jan 21, 2009 16:37:39 GMT -8
Amen! Besides, as I keep saying at work... why does the Greater Saanich Tourism Bureau seem to think that WSF owes them anything?
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080 
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Post by Nick on Jan 21, 2009 20:11:39 GMT -8
I don't really understand this either. First, the Town of Sidney hands control of the Sidney terminal to BCF, a quasi-private entity that has a mandate to make as much profit as possible. BCF jacks up the price, which coupled with declining ridership, makes it an attractive run to cut. Now, WSF decides to axe the run, and the Town of Sidney puts up a big stink because it is going to affect their tourism income numbers. I don't see how they have a leg to stand on, as not only have they not given any financial assistance to keep the run open, they have cost WSF even more money by contracting out the terminal operation.
I think the only way the run could be kept open is if Sidney offered to give a subsidy to the run to offset the losses incurred. It wouldn't be an absurd notion, as Sidney is doing pretty well these days, and if they banded together with the other townships and districts around the peninsula.
I will miss the boat, as I can often hear the whistle from my house, and it's been a part of Sidney for my entire life, but I understand that WSF really should axe the run. There are other priorities for them right now. Perhaps, once the domestic situation is more under control and economic times are better, they might look at opening it again.
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