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Post by Guest 121 on Jul 7, 2008 20:45:22 GMT -8
But tonight I was home in the house by 6:45. Now if I could just find a way to catch the 4:30?? To expensive I would give up one billable hour a day. What price do you put on being able to be home before 6:45pm on a regular basis? At what point do you have "enough" work and enough billings? Just curious, as I thought that the Sunshine Coast was a place to slow down and enjoy life.... You've got me wondering on your commuting lifestyle: how long can you sustain it? Is it a case of short-term pain for retirement gain? Mr Horn I actually love my work. I bring work home, I have a phone extension from my office to my house so I can be like at work but watching the water from my home office. When I go on holiday I always get a hotel with internet so I can work. If I am not in toch I get stressed, being in touch keeps me calm and relaxed. I don't consider work a toil. To me, my work is a blast, and I am privileged to be paid to do what I do. I meet fascinating people, I deal with incredible transactions, and then I am onto the next one. Never a dull day. I enjoy my life, I would do this even if I was not paid, but the pay helps keep my wife happy. Some have commented that I have been a little hard and negative on Peter. Like I wish him ill will. The reality is I would love a good long term viable passenger ferry to run from Gibsons. I could walk to it and be within walking distance of my office. Based on the day, I could have a lot more flexibility than I have now. So I would love to see this work. But, my experience and due diligence training, has allowed me to dig deep and find out a lot about this subject, more than any lawyer should know about passenger only ferry service. I am no expert, but what I have learned gives me great concern. Then I think how will this affect me? If Ihab fails, that is one more black mark on the concept for Gibsons. If he stays around but just sputters like the Georgia Master did then that is not the service I want. I go back to one of my early posts. As a commuter where my time in Vancouver is very valuable, one failed sailing a month could lead to disaster for me. So unless the service is operating as reliable as BC Ferries, as much as I would love the extra time and not to have to drive a car, pay for a parking spot both in Vancouver and HB, etc. etc. the risk of failure for me is just too high. So as I think about it maybe for me, it is best Ihab not get running at all and wait for a better vessel better finance, better plan. But then I flop back, who will do that, and one in the hand is better than two in the bush as the saying goes. I cannot decide if I support this proposal or not. One thing is for sure. The process is entertaining.
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Post by Guest 121 on Jul 7, 2008 21:35:25 GMT -8
I'm not trying to be critical, just curious. What is the typical sunshine-coast to Vancouver commuter like, as far as work/life balance? And is this a growing demographic? or is the new generation of Millennials going to put an end to these types of commutes? (for comparison, I have a 20-minute drive commute on Vancouver Island, so I'm not well versed in downtown Vancouver working culture). As for the typical sunshine coast commute. We wake up at the crack of dawn. About 90 % of the commuters catch the 6:30 ferry. We get a coffee or fall asleep. There is not much talk in the morning. we are all way too grumpy. There really is no average commuter, some are on a budget, some for life style. Some for pre retirement. So some take the bus, some drive and park, some drive on. For some cost is an issue, for others it is not. Once in HB we go our separate way, a lot go to North Vancouver I think that is the largest crowd. Lots go downtown. Then a few go other places. Those that go downtown, some take the bus, some keep a car in HB like me. I am downtown by a little after 7:30, there is very little fluctuation in time. So in bound from Langdale it is about 70 Min to my parking spot. 75 to my office. Outbound is a different story. There is a wave on the Lions Gate about 4:30 if you get caught in it you are screwed. A few minutes early and all is good. I leave my office about 4:20 and I am good for the 5:30 ferry. Summer schedule I hold off to about 5:30 and catch the 6:45 Tue, Wed and Thurs. (no 5:30 those days) On a nice sunny day like today it is all party on the QOS, we have a drink on the outer deck. (Don't let the BCFS nazi's catch you doing that..) We chit chat. For now we talk about CLF. That is a summer commute. Winter commute, well it is not so nice. You leave Langdale in the dark and arrive home in the dark. The QoS is OK, but can get cold in the winter. There is more sleeping and more grumpy in the winter. the 5:30 home is not such a party after Sept. In the spring and summer it is a nice commute, in the winter and fall, pretty bad. But that is all due to weather etc. so no matter where you commute form in Vancouver the same seasonal effect. At least it is not crowded, like Skytrain. I cannot imagine being on Skytrain on a cold rainy day. What a horrible ride that would be. I would get sick I know it. So that is the sunshine coast commute. edited to fix quote tag (missing ']')
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Post by Huh on Jul 7, 2008 22:02:08 GMT -8
One thing I haven't really heard about and as a commuter is more important than anything is SAFETY. Got a family. I'm scared horribly of the ocean, what if a fire breaks out or you hit a monster log or something. what's the crew to passenger ratio what kind of safety equipment do you have onboard? I took the ferry this afternoon and i felt very reassured seeing staff being trained on the life boat and double checking equipment etc. I undertsand yours is a smaller ship, with less hazards such as cars but please give some info about how you can assure to come back to our families at the end of the day. Example equipement, staff, transport canada requirements, mandate. This maybe common sense for most people on this board but for me it's informative and reassuring. You can run a mom and pop operation, get us convienantly downtown and tell us that you have the same stakes as us. OR you can have "passengers" walk on knowing they'll get there.
The price of gas is a very acceptable reason for one engine. Peace of mind is also very important. One engine can break down, a boat can collide, a fire can break out. Tell us how you'll take care of us.
Thanks
Any updates when you'll be open for business and prices etc? People are talking, small town, soon it will be yesterdays news.
*Admin : last comment removed*
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 8, 2008 6:12:22 GMT -8
As for the typical sunshine coast commute.... Thanks for that; that was interesting reading. I suspect that the Harbourlynx had the same (but smaller) type of group re the familiar-strangers who build a sense of camaraderie (or just familiarity) re their common, regular commute.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 7:32:02 GMT -8
Hey everyone, Flugel Horn, Chuck Mangione used to lecture at the music College I attended. That was back around the very early 80's so he still had some "big star" qualities...I love the sound. Gotta catch you playing some time. Yes, this has certainly been an enteraining process. Guest 121 hasn't been hard on me at all. He doesn't pay my salary, and he's entitled to his observations and opinions. His posts are always excellent and entertaining, usually well researched. Many others here are similar. I have nothing but respect for he and most others here, and like me, he loves his work. To address some things.....safety is absolutely first and foremost. Hence the delay in operating. Transport Canada conducted their first inspection about 10 days ago and work needed to be done. Ask us at an Open House "why the delay". You'll laugh. Today Transport Canada inspectors are back. The work that needed to be done is really quite interesting - things you'd never think they would want changed. And we changed it. Safety first. You don't get an operating certificate without it. And as I've said before, I'm as anxious as anyone to get the vessel operating. This forum is one place for discussion of our service. Yes, Gibsons is a small town. However, we have a large number of people on our email list who wrote to us, or attended a public meeting, and they receive updates as available. I always enjoy this forum, and it certainly is entertaining. I learn a lot too...but service udates go first to those who are on that list. Then we explore other avenues for notification. I will post here as well. As guest 121 knows, in his day there are things he can discuss with people, and things that he cannot reveal either for a time or indefinitely. I watch, daily, as people question what they see as a "last minute" attempt for docking agreements. They doubt there's a marketing or business plan, and question market research, because nobody they know (or at least know very well) has said they were included. I can't argue with you. Well, I can, but I won't. You've seen the results when I share something strategically placed, it shows up here. I can't argue because it's not in our best interest to show our hand, to lay out our cards. It doesn't bother me in the least, sometimes I get excited because I can respond, but for other issues it just makes sense to let some assume what they assume. I don't likely have four aces. What I can tell you all is that we continue to move forward. Our announcement that we're coming is, indeed, yesterday's news. Our vessel arriving for a surprise visit, then coming for an Open House, proving that in can make the trip, it's comfort level, etc., ect., that's today's news (or whenever). We'll keep you posted....when I'm told the vessel is making a visit to the Sunshine Coast, I'll let you know as soon as I can. And what a fun exchange here. What do Donald Trump, Gene Simmons and the Devil have in common? They've all been compared to Ihab Shaker on this discussion group. By the way....Ihab Shaker, Peter Green. Those are our names. Not a screen name....we don't hide. Those are our names. We're not afraid, you all have our email and phone number. Come talk to us. You might be surprised at the difference between what we can share here, and for real ...although, starting staff meetings with "Oh Hear Me Prince of Darkness" might liven things up a bit....and Ihab might try that horrible combover of Donald's. Gene Simmons....that was so cool. I was in the KISS Army in the day. LOL! Have a great day everyone!
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Post by Hardy on Jul 8, 2008 9:30:10 GMT -8
Expounding on some of the posts and also adding in a little of my own insight, when you do the "live seatrial" tests to see how the boat handles under pax load, don't just throw a few select people onboard and "dead ballast" for the rest of the weight to test for speed, acceleration, handling, comfort of ride etc. While some of your data and feedback will be accurate, you will neglect to factor in pax movement etc. Also, for example, if you use "simulated" pax (ie: ballast), it will most likely be something squat and dense - low centre of gravity. Real live pax tend to have a somewhat higher CG.
As Guest121 states, ride comfort and ship handling can turn out to be two very important factors if you are aiming at commuter traffic.
(BTW: the CG example is from my real-life experience in the trucking industry - doing "tests" on a freight truck to see how it handles using say 2000# skids of paper goods which tend to only be 42" tall (roughly 45#/cuft) in a 100" high truck body loaded to it's maximum GVW (but less than 40% full volume wise!) is REALLY different than loading say a household move job, which will fill the whole volume of the truck but at only 7#/cuft! Think top-heavy sway... cornering, handling are different - acceleration and braking [both straight line examples] stay consistent, but add any turns while accelerating/stopping and the handling changes are magnified .... Just my two cents from the sidelines)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 9:45:35 GMT -8
Absolutely, Hardy. We will actually be doing trials with full and partial passenger loads. No ballast outside of real people, emulating the real thing! We'll make a quiet visit first, to work on some other issues, so I'm told. Then something publicly announced.
Thanks Hardy
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Post by tempest on Jul 8, 2008 11:20:54 GMT -8
I find it odd that Peter makes the statement "Do you think these people are our customer base?"
Well, from what I can see, the basis of the operation was to transport commuters as a mainstay of their business. I also see that guest 121 seems to have the ear of a lot of people on the Queen of Surrey. I would suggest that EVERYONE on this forum could well be potential customers, including all those folks on the Surrey hovering over his computer.
Be careful. All the rhetoric and sarcasm on Peters part may not be well received.
As for the naysayers, we all have a right to our opinion and debate is good. Surprisingly enough Peter, most of us are here to help. I would agree with our honored guest that Ihab does appear to be arrogant in his approach and perhaps just a little naive of his market and market conditions.
As far as TC is concerned, the rules are the rules. Nothing can be done. I am not surprised the Runner is having some issues with respect to being granted a Home Trade 3 certificate. It's tougher than it looks particularly with the 'cargo' involved.
Good luck. Very amusing reading, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 11:59:19 GMT -8
Sarcasm? Oh come now...well, I will avoid any attempts at humor that may be interpreted as such. I certainly intend no disrespect.
Guest 121 may have the attention of many on the Queen of Surrey, and I receive emails every day from a lot of others that probaby have never met him. It's a large marketplace, a lot of people are involved. If the Coastal Runner delivers on it's promises, then what we've said here will be quite inconsequential. It won't be here that we demonstrate our capacities, and deliver our service.
And yes, you're quite right, this forum may well have a lot of people that are in our market. It also has a lot who are not. This is a discussion forum, and as such it has both pros and cons associated with being part of it.
I've always said it is fun to read, great to learn from, and also that there are those who speculate without knowing the truth behind something. Sometimes I respond - like the person who assumed our crew were from "back east". That's information that need not be private, and we set fears at ease that we have a local focus in our hiring. Sometimes I don't respond, for good reason.
It was suggested that perhaps I am doing a disservice by posting here. Like many of you, I am watching the water. Waiting for some things to take place that will open the door to hosting guests and announcing service.
So let's watch. I'm sure someone can post when we announce, via the media, that we are coming for an open house or developments as they happen. Come and visit and share the experience. I promise no further sarcasm or disrespect of this discussion forum.
I'll keep reading!
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Post by Guest 121 on Jul 8, 2008 12:56:00 GMT -8
I've always said it is fun to read, great to learn from, and also that there are those who speculate without knowing the truth behind something. Sometimes I respond - like the person who assumed our crew were from "back east". That's information that need not be private, and we set fears at ease that we have a local focus in our hiring. Sometimes I don't respond, for good reason. I have a new questions. Does the coastal runner have a washroom (Head)? Also, I would like to know why my questions, about how would customers be services in the event of a vessel engine failure, went un answered. I can understand some questions cross the line and should not be answered in public, but letting customers know how they will be looked after if the only engine on board fails, is just good business. A plan to deal with it will inspire confidence, no plan Will make everyone concerned. So Peter please answer those questions with serious responses not jokes not analogies, what will you do in these events.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 13:01:12 GMT -8
No jokes here.
As i mentioned yesterday, I forwarded the questions to Captain Shaker so I could get a qualified response. He's been on the vessel with Transport Canada all day and much of yesterday. I haven't received an answer.
So we'll publish answers to those and many other FAQ's as we announce the launch of service. You're absolutely right, they're important questions.
Talk soon!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 8, 2008 13:15:38 GMT -8
So Peter please answer those questions with serious responses not jokes not analogies, what will you do in these events. I suppose that a lot of the various questions will eventually get answered by their inclusion as info in Coastal Link's website, including hopefully a FAQ section on their website (and yes, this here thread is likely indicating what the "frequently asked" questions really are). It seems like we're wanting the duplication of the dispensation of information by requesting it on this forum too. Or maybe this thead's popularity is evidence that the CLF website is currently lacking in information that potential users need? With an intended start-up of later this month, I'd think that the website of CLF would be our focal point of things to see (re information or lack of info that leads to our questions) and then we post our question here, and then see the response on the CLF website as it evolves. ....and Peter is cursed by being a company spokesman who happens to also have a sense of humour and a metaphorical style of communication. Straight & to-the-point isn't my native language either...... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 14:50:41 GMT -8
Hey, thanks Flugel Horn!
Ok, Guest 121 was concerned that his questions, arising from the previous day, had not been answered within 24 hours. I have obtained the answer to his main question, and some info for all concerned:
First, there is a second motor on the Coastal Runner. It's size and capacities were not discussed in the conversation, but it is required by Transport Canada. We never say we can't break down, nobody can say that, but we can make it to port. At an Open House, you are free to ask detailed questions about this issue and much more. The FAQ's of our vessel will be on our website when we set a definite launch date.
There. Now, that being said, any questions about the Vessel, the Operation, it's Business Plan or any and all aspects of Coastal Link Ferries that should be answered by a Company Official can be sent directly to peter@coastallinkferries.com Everyone who has written knows that I reply.
Anything posted here is fair game for one and all to answer. I'm following along with everyone else!
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 14:59:29 GMT -8
Oh, and yes, there is a Head on the Coastal Runner. It's size and capacities were not discussed but there is one. Thanks. All further enquiries, just contact CLF.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 8, 2008 15:38:47 GMT -8
Well Peter I have to say your patience has impressed me. I am now not sure what I would do the next time I am in a position to advise my clients on the use of online and blogs. I have run some blogs to market some charitable ventures. Some clients are using forums and blogs with great results. Getting people to talk about you/your service/ your product is very powerful. And if you can get people to forward your message on to other people it is even more powerful. The technical term is viral marketing. The web has been a huge boon to this. In your case you can only say so much. I am now on the fence as to what I would advise a client when they can't be all forthcoming about everything. In other words when competition is a factor, or when there are sensitive parts to the equation. Maybe after seeing some of the reactions I have seen you face I may recommend waiting longer to start the buildup and viral component of the plan. I too am learning through watching and commenting on this process.
*added missed word
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 15:50:08 GMT -8
Thanks Northern. I thought, like everyone else, that we'd be running by now. Things happen, so that's ok.
I'm still here, like everyone else! It's a great forum, and I do learn a lot.
And the internet notwithstanding, our ship - traveling past the Queen of Surrey, or near it, will be what people notice. When we're operating, all the viral marketing in the world won't change what is happening on the water!
Thanks again!
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Post by Guest 121 on Jul 8, 2008 16:03:14 GMT -8
It is Tue, so I have to wait to 5:30 for the QOS, so back to my favorite subject
Good new on the head, I thought oh I hope there is. 1 hour on a small boat is too much for my a blatter.
Second engine, that is interesting in previous posts Peter said only one engine. But now he says there is a second engine and that is a TC requirement. Not surprised it is a TC requirement, just surprised he said there was only one engine in the first place. That comment by Peter made a lot of us concerned.
I guess the transmission is one that can take power from two sources and feed it to one prop. A friend of mine had a boat like that two engines one prop. He could run on one engine or two.
So the reliability concern about one engine is not a concern. Gee Peter why do you toy with us. Telling us one engine when there is two engines.
Looking forward to seeing the boat, watching the water.
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Post by Guest 121 on Jul 8, 2008 16:11:47 GMT -8
Well Peter I have to say your patience has impressed me. I am now not sure what I would do the next time I am in a position to advise my clients on the use of online and blogs. I have run some blogs to market some charitable ventures. Some clients are using forums and blogs with great results. Getting people to talk about you/your service/ your product is very powerful. And if you can get people to forward your message on to other people it is even more powerful. The technical term is viral marketing. The web has been a huge boon to this. In your case you can only say so much. I am now on the fence as to what I would advise a client when they can't be all forthcoming about everything. In other words when competition is a factor, or when there are sensitive parts to the equation. Maybe after seeing some of the reactions I have seen you face I may recommend waiting longer to start the buildup and viral component of the plan. I too am learning through watching and commenting on this process. *added missed word Viral marketing works well when there is a plan, in this case CLF were caught off guard and were drawn into this forum without a plan. I would say the results speak for them self as far as not having a plan. take a look at this link it is an example of a good plan and a well executed viral campaign. blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/06/cellphones-cant.htmlwww.cardosystems.com/pop/That is a good plan and good result. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but like everything else to fail to plan is to plan to fail. The advice I would give is don't get dragged into a viral situation like a forum or blog. That is where the danger lies, then it is just defending against comments. Like you see on this forum. It does not mean that viral marketing does not work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 16:12:55 GMT -8
Toy with you? Never. I was told it had one engine, and it does. I was just told it has an additional, smaller backup motor - remember, in post #237 I said "motor", and as I said check it out at an Open House. Motor. Not Engine. We clear there? Peter was consistent throughout, no problem there. One Engine. Backup "motor". I want to put a smiley face here, but some grumpy pants will say I'm being sarcastic and joking about it.
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Post by Guest 121 on Jul 8, 2008 16:18:54 GMT -8
Toy with you? Never. I was told it had one engine, and it does. I was just told it has an additional, smaller backup motor - remember, in post #237 I said "motor", and as I said check it out at an Open House. Motor. Not Engine. We clear there? Peter was consistent throughout, no problem there. One Engine. Backup "motor". I want to put a smiley face here, but some grumpy pants will say I'm being sarcastic and joking about it. What is the difference between an engine and a motor?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 16:32:31 GMT -8
There is a backup propulsion system as required by Transport Canada. Hey, I'm only relaying the answer to a question. For more detail, write directly to CLF. We're not making this up, and we're very much in line with Transport Canada requirements. Anyone who has such a question or concern should write directly to CLF. It's not like we can bluff on the safety issues, nor would we. I'd say write to peter@coastallinkferries.com
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Post by Ferryman on Jul 8, 2008 18:17:54 GMT -8
Toy with you? Never. I was told it had one engine, and it does. I was just told it has an additional, smaller backup motor - remember, in post #237 I said "motor", and as I said check it out at an Open House. Motor. Not Engine. We clear there? Peter was consistent throughout, no problem there. One Engine. Backup "motor". I want to put a smiley face here, but some grumpy pants will say I'm being sarcastic and joking about it. What is the difference between an engine and a motor? An engine is a machine that uses combustables to operate. A motor uses electricity in order to operate. Ie: They're equipped with a kicker (small pleasure craft term for backup power) I'm doubtful if this is what will be used as a backup. Or at least I'd probably laugh if I saw one of these being used on the Coastal Runner. But it's an example of a "kicker". www.friday-ad.co.uk/AdRef/LLB049/Class/656/Web/FullAdDetails.asp
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Jul 8, 2008 18:23:36 GMT -8
So... 'guest 121'... have you taken Peter up on his invitation to drop him a line for more information? Because I'm not sure when this exchange of 'I want to know', and 'write me', is going to reach the point of diminishing returns. Also, despite your admirably dogged pursuit of the real story, you've not asked the one question that's been foremost in my mind. Never mind toilets, engines, or dock space; I can't figure out how someone who's tilting at windmills trying to get a ferry service set up has all this time to parry cheeky challenges from a handful of internet forum habitues. Not that we don't value your participation, Peter... we do; you're way more accommodating than those other ferry types ( Hahn and Marshall are two names that come to mind) who steadfastly refuse to return our calls. I just hope that the GLHA isn't renting out dock space to a rival while you're staring down the gun barrels of 'guest 121' and 'tempest'.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2008 18:48:16 GMT -8
LOL! No, things are well in hand Neil. At the moment, I'm working on projects in Vancouver and elsewhere that require writing. This forum is a chance to share, and it's definitely fun.
If I described the three main projects i've worked on over the past two days, you'd say 'yeah, that makes sense', but then, I'd be tipping our hand. Not quite in our best interest.
I love to write, and talk, so it's kind of a natural part of my day. And today I communicated with 11 people who wrote to us, 7 were part of our contact group, 4 were new.
Tempest and Guest 121 are fine by me. Neither has written to me but I'm still open.
Thanks Neil
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Jul 8, 2008 19:06:09 GMT -8
In general terms, you're absolutely right, Chris.
However, a lot of people refer to a small engine (something like a 40HP Honda/Evinrude/Yamaha outboard) as a motor, not an engine.
I very highly doubt that the backup propulsion on the Coastal Runner is electric, just because the space to store enough batteries would be prohibitive, not to mention that is a lot of extra cost for a backup system that will get rare usage.
This is speculation at it's finest, but I would say that the backup motor is probably a 40HP or so small auxiliary diesel engine coupled to the main shaft. It would be diesel so that it can run on the main engine's fuel supply (common practice for secondary backup engines).
If that is the case, I would have a few concerns. First, 40 HP will power that boat at a max speed of about 6 knots. We get some currents that flow a lot faster than that, and wind resistance on a late november evening will blow holes in that speed as well. Also, there is still no provision for a log hit. If the propeller is knocked off, or the shaft is sheared (all of which regularly happens in this area), they are still out of luck.
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