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Post by WettCoast on Jun 24, 2007 21:46:15 GMT -8
The NorAd is supposed to operate through most of the fall and winter 2007/8. At least that is the way it was supposed to be. To correct most of its issues they probably need a couple of months at least for a refit. To fix its biggest problem (no bow loading) they would need much longer. You will note that the BCFS's has not yet posted a fall/winter schedule for the Inside Passage and Charlottes. They are probably not sure what they are going to do. If they choose to use the NorAd they are committing to running the Nimpkish or another vessel all through the fall & winter to serve the mid coast points that the NorAd can't make it into. BTW, this is what I said above "And it really is looking as though they got a real lemon in the process too!" (italics added). I did not pronounce it to be a lemon, but did say that things are pointing in that direction. Now to some of Dane's comments... - The sewage system on the NorAd is continuing to have 'issues'. It is most definitely not a 'one of' thing.
- Late departures were fairly much the norm on the Norad during its spring service in place of the QPR. Very few of these delays were due to weather or sea conditions. Its maiden voyage was 3 hours late leaving. Both of my trips to/from the Charlottes were late - 2.5 hours going over and 26 hours coming back. Since the beginning of the Summer day cruise service on Route 10 it has had at least two very serious 4 to five hour delayed departures. Hardly 'one of' events.
- Rust and bent railings - I dare say that there is not a ship in the fleet with passenger deck railings in as poor shape as those on the NorAd. And we need to keep in mind that she is only two years old as the company spin keeps telling us. That rust, BTW, is not an artifact of the delivery voyage from Greece to BC. It is an artifact of two years of neglected maintenance.
You are right though that most of these issues are fixable, but will they fix her biggest issue - the lack of bow loading?
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Post by Dane on Jun 24, 2007 22:12:26 GMT -8
You are right though that most of these issues are fixable, but will they fix her biggest issue - the lack of bow loading? Yeah... that is a BIG problem. And a bad call on BCF's part.
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Post by markkarj on Apr 7, 2007 22:33:38 GMT -8
www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070407/bc_ferry_070407/20070407?hub=Canada'Northern Adventure' ferry off to troubled start Updated Sat. Apr. 7 2007 9:58 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff Passengers waiting to board the replacement ferry for the sunken Queen of the North had to wait more than 24 hours to board as crews worked feverishly to fix technical problems. Only one week after the refurbished ship's maiden voyage, the ferry stayed docked in Prince Rupert, B.C. for more than 30 hours this weekend. Sixty-nine passengers were booked on the 1 p.m. ferry departure on the Northern Adventure's run from Prince Rupert to Port Hardy. A spokesperson at B.C. Ferries confirmed a dry chemical leak from a fire extinguisher was the source of the problem, which set off fire alarms. Also, the grey water tank -- which collects water from sinks and showers -- overflowed and the water got into the galley. However, the most daunting problem came when the public address system broke down. Transport Canada demands that ferries have a way of communicating with passengers. The Northern Adventure, formerly the MV Sonia, was bought from Greece at a cost approximately of $50 million. There were an additional $18 million in refit costs. The vessel holds more than 600 passengers and 101 vehicles. "This is really like going from a Volkswagen to a Cadillac in shipping terms," said Kevin Falcon, B.C.'s minister of transportatio. Passengers became disgruntled while they waited, leaving some of them wishing they had made alternate plans. "It's very, very poor the way they let you know. It's just terrible service, terrible service," Les Andrews, one passenger trying to get to Port Hardy, told CTV British Columbia. "We've got two trucks sitting here all this time and three drivers sitting around getting paid," Andrews said. After waiting for hours, some passengers resigned themselves to resting at nearby hotels for the night. The ill-fated Queen of the North ran aground just over one year ago. The 125-metre B.C. Ferries' ship went down in the early morning hours of March 22, 2006, about one hour after slamming into Gil Island at full speed -- about 35 kilometres per hour. The ferry sank more than 400 metres to the bottom of Wright Sound, where it remains to this day. In total, 99 passengers and crew survived, while Gerald Foisey and Shirley Rosette of 100 Mile House are presumed to have died in the sinking. Human error has been blamed for the sinking. With a report from CTV's Janet Dirks
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Post by Scott on Apr 7, 2007 22:59:41 GMT -8
Mr. Falcon obviously never travelled on the Queen of the North.
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Post by Dane on Apr 7, 2007 23:07:33 GMT -8
Mr. Falcon obviously never travelled on the Queen of the North. You know, and BC Ferries employees please feel free to chip in, every employee I've spoken to at BC Ferries has only had good things to say about the Norad compared to the Queen of the North... and they're a fairly cynical group. I think as ferry fans we ought to look beyond the size of the cafeteria and the existance of an arcade. While criticisms directed at the way the vessel is loaded are valid, BC Ferries is just (sadly) falling into line with the industry standard of a lack of efficiency.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Apr 7, 2007 23:39:40 GMT -8
As I said, I did not think the NorAd was the best decision for BCFS to make to purchase. The Nissos was better however, it would only be up for charter and not for sale.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Apr 8, 2007 5:47:21 GMT -8
There usually is a list of items from the initial shakedown cruises to repair and change. However you would have hoped it would have happened while the Norad was on her dog and pony show trips to the various terminals for the open houses. Maybe since the refit this was the first heavy seas she experienced.
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Post by North Islander on Apr 8, 2007 5:58:19 GMT -8
I'm trying to imagine the launch of a new cruise ship or party boat where they tell passengers that these kinds of things are just "teething problems" and it's up to the first month's worth of clients to ride them out. I'm having trouble with that.
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Post by jjr on Apr 8, 2007 6:59:26 GMT -8
And from the Times Colonist this morning ...
Glitches snarl refitted ferry Sea of trouble: Replacement vessel sits idle for 30 hours in Prince Rupert as bugs bedevil public address system, a fire extinguisher and even the water works Judith Lavoie, Times Colonist Published: Sunday, April 08, 2007 The Northern Adventure, B.C. Ferries' replacement for the sunken Queen of the North, was stuck in dock in Prince Rupert for more than 30 hours this weekend while technicians scrambled to fix a series of glitches that surfaced on the way from the Queen Charlotte Islands to Prince Rupert.
The refitted ship, which went into service on the Inside Passage between Skidegate, Prince Rupert and Port Hardy on March 31, had 69 passengers booked on the 1 p.m. Friday run from Prince Rupert to Port Hardy.
B.C. Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall said passengers "were updated through the afternoon and, quite late last night, we determined the ship was not going to sail. We offered to pay for their accommodation for the night."
The Northern Adventure was finally given Transport Canada clearance late yesterday afternoon and was to sail to Port Hardy at 8 p.m.
Since going into service, the ship had done three round trips to the Queen Charlottes and one Port Hardy-Prince Rupert trip, but problems emerged Friday. The sailing was already delayed because of bad weather, Marshall said.
Then, in an alarming string of events, a fire extinguisher was dislodged from its rack and, when it hit the car deck, it released dry chemicals. "Unfortunately, the powder activated the smoke sensor and that caused the general alarm to go off throughout the ship," Marshall said.
It took between five and 10 minutes for the crew to identify the problem and switch off the alarms, she said.
Next, the grey water tank -- which collects water from sinks and showers -- overflowed and the water got into the galley. "We had to shut down the food services to make sure everything in the galley was clean," Marshall said.
The most persistent problem came when the public address system broke down. That kept the ferry in dock once it reached Prince Rupert. Transport Canada demands ferries have a means of communicating with passengers. "Sometimes you do get bugs with new vessels. This was just unfortunate timing," Marshall said.
At the Crest Prince Rupert Hotel, where some ferry passengers stayed, a clerk said most were resigned to the delay. "There are not too many other options for getting out of Prince Rupert," she said.
The Northern Adventure, formerly the MV Sonia, was bought by B.C. Ferries for $51 million after the Queen of the North struck Gil Island and sank 13 months ago. In March, after a $9-million refit at Victoria Shipyards, the Greek-built ship, which holds 600 passengers and 101 vehicles, was rechristened Northern Adventure.
jlavoie@tc.canwest.com © Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007
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Post by Northern Exploration on Apr 8, 2007 7:05:52 GMT -8
I know it is hard to believe but it happens all the time.
The Queen Mary 2 is arguably one of the most sophisticated and expensive cruise ships ever built. One of my friends mother was on her first inaugural cruise from England to NYC. Some toilets didn't work, the seas were so rough many of the restaurants served reduced menus and some passengers chose to stay in their cabins, and china was broken.
Here is an exerpt from a review of the QE2 just out of her most recent refit from the cruisemates website:
"Any time a ship comes out of dry-dock, there are bound to be some problems and it should be taken as a given that the refit will not be 100% complete. However, while QE2 was certainly not 100% complete, she was about as complete as can be expected and any of the problems experienced are typical post refit problems, in my opinion, and will not continue to affect the ship. For the first two days, we heard many times, "Priority Two, Crystal Bar, port side" or some other location come over the loudspeaker as a pipe burst or a toilet flooded. However, the frequency dropped off sharply by the end of the 2nd day and I don't really remember hearing them the last few days. Some cabins had plumbing and/or heating troubles but almost all were fixed by late the first night. There were still several public bathrooms that were not working by New York and some of the D stairway elevators were not working, but their focus was the private accommodations first, and public accommodations second." This lady sounded pretty seasoned to travel and not too upset. However I do know some passengers weren't so forgiving.
You would think Cunard would ensure everything works 100% for the people paying thousands and thousands of dollars for a first class cruise like this. But I guess until the ship is full of passengers and everything in use as it should be you can't test absolutely everything. Inaugural cruises for all their hype run the risk of strange occurances.
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 8, 2007 7:32:47 GMT -8
Mr. Falcon obviously never travelled on the Queen of the North. You know, and BC Ferries employees please feel free to chip in, every employee I've spoken to at BC Ferries has only had good things to say about the Norad compared to the Queen of the North... and they're a fairly cynical group. I think as ferry fans we ought to look beyond the size of the cafeteria and the existance of an arcade. While criticisms directed at the way the vessel is loaded are valid, BC Ferries is just (sadly) falling into line with the industry standard of a lack of efficiency. Dane, the employees that I have talked to, ones who actually are working on her, did NOT only have "good things to say about the Norad compared to the Queen of the North". Quite the opposite in fact. In some respects this ship is better than the QotN, but overall it does not compare.
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Post by Dane on Apr 8, 2007 11:11:19 GMT -8
I should clarify - I am speaking to the actual technological, safety and operational components of the vessel, not guest services.
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Post by Balfour on Apr 8, 2007 17:12:51 GMT -8
We should also keep in mind that the NorAd is gonna end up on the Queen Charlottes run once the Northern Expedition is in service.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Apr 8, 2007 17:23:47 GMT -8
Yeah good point. I hope they are looking at this board and doing some customer service surveys with passengers so that the NorEx will address some of the concerns such as forward viewing, breaking the seating up into smaller areas and not just one huge one etc.
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Post by Scott on Apr 8, 2007 18:16:35 GMT -8
I agree the NorAd is a big improvement in terms of safety, operation, and technology. What I was thinking about when saying the NorAd isn't a big improvement is in the travel experience. And actually, I'm not really too qualified to speak on the comparison, but just comparing what was on the two ships in terms of food services and lounges as well as outside deck space... I'm assuming the Sonia is not an improvement at all. There are some redeeming features - the outdoor cafe and the larger number of cabins, but I don't think it's enough to say the NorAd is a "Cadillac", at least in terms of customer experience.
Interesting comparison Mr. Falcon brought up. What would you rather have, a Volkswagen or a Cadillac? I'd probably go VW all the way:)
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Apr 8, 2007 18:44:29 GMT -8
That is a bit interesting since Cadillac's are GM and VW is import. So does he indicate a downgrade?
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Post by Mike C on Apr 8, 2007 19:57:25 GMT -8
There are some pretty nice VW's out there... and Cadillacs aren't all that reliable.
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Post by Dane on Apr 8, 2007 20:00:23 GMT -8
VW
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
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Post by Neil on Apr 8, 2007 21:55:55 GMT -8
Since we're doing an auto analogy, we should keep in mind that BC Ferries didn't have a year or two to leisurely browse around the marine equivalent of the Richmond Auto Mall, looking for a model with just the right profile or just the right number of windows. Given their requirements, this is what was available in the time they had to look. Maybe the Northern Adventure sucks in some aspects compared to the 'North, but any company is going to come out with some public relations bumpf in this sort of situation to put the best spin on things.
In the long run, the NorAd is replacing the 'Rupert. It's bigger, safer, faster, and probably as comfortable. After it's teething problems are done, we'll probably get used to it, ugly face and all.
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Post by Dane on Apr 8, 2007 22:10:12 GMT -8
Hahahahahaha rarely does a post make me actually laugh out loud. That did. Im still chuckling!
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 8, 2007 22:13:20 GMT -8
BCFS's could have chartered an older vessel for a few years - long enough to have a ship built tailor made for our northern routes. I believe that the Scotia Prince was available last summer. It would have fit our docks, and is of a two compartment stability design. It would not have needed extensive modifications.
I do not subscribe to the theory that when desperate you should take whatever you can get.
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Post by Barnacle on Apr 9, 2007 6:47:52 GMT -8
I subscribe to the theory, but only because it's the definition of 'desperate.'
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 9, 2007 19:48:13 GMT -8
I subscribe to the theory, but only because it's the definition of 'desperate.' You and your Logic-101....... However, I suppose that even if you are desperate, you don't have to behave as such. I supose that "desperation with restraint" is a possibility, as is "disciplined desperation". As Glen Frey would have said, "Desperate-ferry-company, why don't you come to your senses....". Oh well, maybe the ship will work out, "in the long run". I suppose we should just "take it easy", and only complain as a "last resort". After all, in protected waters the ship might offer a "peaceful easy feeling." We're just complaining because the ship is the "new kid in town". Lets wait to see what the crew can really do with this ship, when they "take it to the limit". Why am I saying all this? Well, "I can't tell you why.
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Post by Scott on Apr 9, 2007 19:48:57 GMT -8
Yes, we do have to give them credit for working hard to get a quick replacement for the Queen of the North. At the time following the sinking, even BC Ferries doubted that they could have another ferry ready within a year. So some people in BC Ferries management did a lot of looking and probably a lot of bargaining to get full possession of the Sonia as quick as they did. Sure, there may have been leasing options that they didn't take... I don't know enough about other ships around the world to judge that.
The Northern Adventure will probably turn out to be a good ship for the Charlottes. I'm just very amused by the "whole new level of service" and Cadillac talk:)
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Apr 9, 2007 20:39:20 GMT -8
I dont think the NA is ugly. There are more ugly looking ships and they dont even come close to the NA. I think she is good looking ship.
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