Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Apr 27, 2013 21:59:43 GMT -8
The problem with voter turnout isn't that people don't know how to vote, or don't know how to access party policy statements to make up their minds. The problem is that people just don't care... especially young people.
The voter turnout among people 19-25 years of age was about 25% in the last provincial election. That's pathetic. Why are young people so ignorant and apathetic about their opportunities and responsibility to take part in the system that governs our lives?
Did young forum members take part in the last election, and are they planning on voting in this one? And if not, how do they justify their absence... and do they really want to leave it up to us greybeards to determine the shape of things to come?
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Apr 27, 2013 22:32:58 GMT -8
The problem with voter turnout isn't that people don't know how to vote, or don't know how to access party policy statements to make up their minds. The problem is that people just don't care... especially young people. The voter turnout among people 19-25 years of age was about 25% in the last provincial election. That's pathetic. Why are young people so ignorant and apathetic about their opportunities and responsibility to take part in the system that governs our lives? Did young forum members take part in the last election, and are they planning on voting in this one? And if not, how do they justify their absence... and do they really want to leave it up to us greybeards to determine the shape of things to come? That's right! It's more their future than anybody else's, especially older people with more turnout, so they should be the group with the most voters! Young people legal age: go vote!
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Post by Mike C on Apr 27, 2013 23:49:19 GMT -8
The problem with voter turnout isn't that people don't know how to vote, or don't know how to access party policy statements to make up their minds. The problem is that people just don't care... especially young people. The voter turnout among people 19-25 years of age was about 25% in the last provincial election. That's pathetic. Why are young people so ignorant and apathetic about their opportunities and responsibility to take part in the system that governs our lives? Did young forum members take part in the last election, and are they planning on voting in this one? And if not, how do they justify their absence... and do they really want to leave it up to us greybeards to determine the shape of things to come? I have always found it to be imperative to participate in the democratic process - I was a part of the Youth Vote at age 16, and have voted in every election since my 18th birthday. I take it upon myself to nearly drag my friends to the voting booth (last year I told my then-girlfriend that we were going for ice cream - I actually drove us to the local polling station. Didn't go over well, but she voted, so I won). I am appalled by that statistic, and it frustrates me to no end that this generation (like every other generation) wants to be the catalyst that changes the system for the better; and yet they choose not to participate in the most fundamental democratic right. Elections BC has put ads up at various SkyTrain stations that say "It's only the base of a free and democratic society - but hey, you probably have spin class that day."
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Apr 28, 2013 6:47:48 GMT -8
The problem with voter turnout isn't that people don't know how to vote, or don't know how to access party policy statements to make up their minds. The problem is that people just don't care... especially young people. The voter turnout among people 19-25 years of age was about 25% in the last provincial election. That's pathetic. Why are young people so ignorant and apathetic about their opportunities and responsibility to take part in the system that governs our lives? Did young forum members take part in the last election, and are they planning on voting in this one? And if not, how do they justify their absence... and do they really want to leave it up to us greybeards to determine the shape of things to come? Since I fall into that demographic, I'll respond. Like MP, I've voted in every election since I was 18, and in the "student vote" election for the federal election in 2005(?) as well. Since I'm attending school in Nova Scotia, I'm actually still eligible to vote in the BC election and I have received the absentee voting package. It will be returned on Monday, since the candidate list came out on Friday. Why people my age are so apathetic? I have no idea. I find it's not just the voting process they are apathetic about. They are woefully ignorant about anything to do with the government. Often they don't have any idea how it even works... which is particularly concerning here where we work for the government. We had a good discussion about income taxes here the other day, and comparing the rebates and refunds given out by different provinces. It's a unique place to be discussing this, because we all make exactly the same amount of money and all file taxes in different provinces. Anyway, some people were very ignorant about why their refund is bigger than others, and what the different allowances and rebates are for.
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Post by DENelson83 on Apr 28, 2013 17:39:34 GMT -8
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Post by Scott on Apr 28, 2013 20:53:19 GMT -8
So his idea is that free ferries would save the government money. I'm quite skeptical about that idea. I think they could fill the ferries by cutting the fares a certain percentage without making it free. Making them free, as much as I would like it, would probably cause chaos. The writer of the article says that they could cut the jobs of ticket sellers and toll booth attendants and security personell. I disagree. You need these people to monitor, control, direct, traffic. You can't just get rid of them and expect things to run smoothly. Maybe if you separated the routes, it would make sense on some, like the minor routes which operate with similar demands as the inland routes. But for the majors, it wouldn't work. Why would you make it free when you could charge a certain amount without harming traffic levels. That being said, I think fares are too high and are hindering traffic levels and having a negative impact on coastal communities. This "thinking outside the box" that is in the article is probably a good thing to start conversations and provoke new ideas... just not a practical solution in my opinion.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Apr 28, 2013 21:42:13 GMT -8
:)we are now well into what we used to call 'silly season' when we are talking free ferries, I'am afraid that saying 'there's no free lunch' applies here, I guess when we go up to Kootenay lake for are 'free ride' we are given this idea, but we have to face reallity in lotus land! mrdot. to
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Post by Mike C on Apr 29, 2013 19:24:29 GMT -8
Tonight's debate included approximately zero questions about ferries - in fact, the only discussion about transportation surrounded the carbon tax as a possible method to fund public transit (briefly). A majority of the discussion surrounded the economy, balancing the budget, and the environment (specifically as it related to the proposed pipeline infrastructure expansion). I think this shows you that although transportation is the backbone of the economy in any jurisdiction, BC is more worried about finding work and how they will balance the budget at their kitchen tables.
It seemed like Adrian Dix and Jane Sterk were the only ones with their heads in the game; Christy Clarke had a lot of hollow slogans and cliches, and John Cummins came across as the crazy old man who just opened his front door for the first time since 1955 (he seemed shocked that people were talking about things like "the environment").
My favourite moment was when Cummins called himself "Mr. Environment" after a few stutters - golden moments like that make me wish debates happened more often.
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Post by compdude787 on Apr 29, 2013 20:16:50 GMT -8
Tonight's debate included approximately zero questions about ferries... Sounds like Washington, where ferries have little influence in politics. But it's surprising that even transportation in general received almost no mention at all in the debate. Perhaps transportation wasn't the topic of the debate, but that seems really weird because transportation is a very important part of government.
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Post by Mike C on Apr 29, 2013 20:21:53 GMT -8
Tonight's debate included approximately zero questions about ferries... Sounds like Washington, where ferries have little influence in politics. But it's surprising that even transportation in general received almost no mention at all in the debate. Perhaps transportation wasn't the topic of the debate, but that seems really weird because transportation is a very important part of government. It was a general debate. I think that it wasn't a huge surprise... the unemployment rate in the province for people under 30 is 15%, we have a very serious ongoing discussion surrounding a potentially disastrous pipeline proposal, and the questions tonight reflected that.
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 29, 2013 20:26:21 GMT -8
I watched the debate, or at least most of it, and yes, there was nothing on the situation with BC Ferries *. I went looking for some sort of analysis and found my way to a Vancouver Sun page and then to this, which was in the 'viewer comments' section at the bottom of the Sun article. I don't know if the detail in what is written in this linked blog article is 'the facts and nothing but the facts', but, even if its half true it helps to explain in part, BC Ferries current financial state. *Christie needed a knock out blow tonight and she most certainly did not get it. I'd say she's toast.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on Apr 29, 2013 20:41:17 GMT -8
I watched the debate, or at least most of it, and yes, there was nothing on the situation with BC Ferries *. I went looking for some sort of analysis and found my way to a Vancouver Sun page and then to this, which was in the 'viewer comments' section at the bottom of the Sun article. I don't know if the detail in what is written in this linked blog article is 'the facts and nothing but the facts', but, even if its half true it helps to explain in part, BC Ferries current financial state. *Christie needed a knock out blow tonight and she most certainly did not get it. I'd say she's toast. Burnt toast. And not even any cheap margarine on it. And how about the cowardice of refusing to answer the question on marijuana- replying with a cheap, snippy dig at Adrian Dix for stating his opinion- while both Cummins and Sterk were willing to go on record. The NDP has now stated that they will be looking at the governance model for BC Ferries, although it didn't come up tonight. I think everything is going to be on the table after the election, but people shouldn't get their hopes up that the expected new government is going to be able to find the dollars for huge changes.
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Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,886
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Post by Mill Bay on Apr 30, 2013 8:49:36 GMT -8
The NDP has now stated that they will be looking at the governance model for BC Ferries, although it didn't come up tonight. I think everything is going to be on the table after the election, but people shouldn't get their hopes up that the expected new government is going to be able to find the dollars for huge changes. Of course they will. The NDP always know where to find the money: from us. The Liberals did the same thing, though they tried to make it appear that they were keeping their hands off but making it come through tolls on bridges and ferry fare increases. Although I'm sure that still doesn't cover all the costs. They didn't really tell us where the rest of it comes from.
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Post by Scott on May 1, 2013 7:22:55 GMT -8
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Post by Dane on May 1, 2013 14:27:08 GMT -8
I get Reality Check concept by CBC, and generally like it, but they don't discuss accountability or representation in management of a transportation system that even in most hyper-Conservative governments would be kept as a totally public entity. It is a real shame that discussion is not there, but I do cautiously believe the NDP is in tune with the fraudulent system that is in place now that just provides a bastion for political appointees, even if not directly assigned by the government...
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Post by DENelson83 on May 6, 2013 10:23:25 GMT -8
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Post by Mike C on May 6, 2013 10:40:19 GMT -8
To save everyone some time, this article reiterated the points, with regards to ferry operations, we have been going through here over and over and over again. One interesting statement from this article was that, if elected, a Liberal MLA from Saanich-Gulf Islands would fight for increased subsidies and no service cuts - he's either lying, or a very lonely voice in the Liberal party. It's pretty clear that his perspective is not held by his colleagues in the party. Another note is that the article incorrectly states a lack of public transit service on Saltspring. The transit service ridership has well exceeded the expectations of BC Transit (likely due to the high cost of bringing a vehicle over, combined with high gas prices), with passengers even being passed-up on trips to Fulford Harbour. I hope that this is a service that they continue to expand going forward.
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Post by dofd on May 8, 2013 22:54:08 GMT -8
This all ends on the same two questions. Is there tax waste which can be put towards ferries? But not health care, daycare and so on.... Are we as a province, willing to pay more tax? For better service, but will it include ferries? Chance is very little.
As always, everyone wants more, but at no cost. Maybe we should have communities chose where their PST goes. ..................
I want healthcare, I want daycare, I want schools, I want a police department, I want a Fire Department (sorry should have put them in first ), I want to help the low income families, and now youth depression and spending some money on transit as long that it is on a island. So whats something, what is the answer............
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Post by compdude787 on May 13, 2013 19:57:03 GMT -8
It's your choice to make as to who your MLA is. It is up to you. I've seen votes as close as +32 votes. In one nomination meeting within a political party the result was +1 vote so it can make a difference. There will be many close results for this election. Speaking of close elections, in the 2004 Washington gubernatorial election, the Democrat candidate Christine Gregoire won against Republican Dino Rossi by a mere 133 votes. If 134 more people had voted for Dino Rossi, he would have been governor. That means in close elections, just a few votes can change the whole outcome of the election.
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Post by dofd on May 13, 2013 22:48:28 GMT -8
Whatever happens, we cannot go in to mass spending. We do not need to be the northern example of California. This will keep the ferries out of new funding and it should at this time. Health care and low income families need a boost, plus (now depending on the teacher you talk to) education needs money.
The count down begins:
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Post by Ferryman on May 14, 2013 3:47:06 GMT -8
Whatever happens, we cannot go in to mass spending. We do not need to be the northern example of California. This will keep the ferries out of new funding and it should at this time. Health care and low income families need a boost, plus (now depending on the teacher you talk to) education needs money. The count down begins: Right, because the current government doesn't overspend by any means. The Vancouver convention center, new BC Place Roof, potentially fatal ice dropping design of the new Port Mann bridge are fine examples of money well spent. Meanwhile, our jobs with refining our resources are being outsourced to Asia in support of cheap labour and post Secondary students are getting University degrees to make Latte's at Starbucks.The list goes on and on. I'm tired of this. Time for a change for the better. Damn rights I'm voting today. Edit: Sorry dofd, I'm not intending to pick on you directly, however just speaking my mind so please don't take offense since we're all entitled to our opinion.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 14, 2013 6:34:07 GMT -8
It is Election Day in BC. What party will win, and what parties will loose?
Go vote British Columbia.
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Post by WettCoast on May 14, 2013 7:38:09 GMT -8
Maybe, hopefully, with luck, today's vote will lead to an end of the 10 year old "Franken-ferry" experiment brought to us by Mr Campbell, Ms Clark, & the BC Liberals. It is time to say good bye to slugs & bring our marine "highways" back into an affordable part the province's overall transportation infrastructure. There is plenty of money available for 4-laning Highway 97 in the Cariboo, even though there is little need (i.e. traffic) for it.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,175
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Post by Neil on May 14, 2013 12:14:40 GMT -8
Not too much mystery as to who's going to win, here on Hornby at least. In the 2009 election, the NDP got 406 votes, Liberals 78, and Greens 61. Voter turnout was 68%, compared to the province wide 51%.
The campaign has displayed hugely varying styles, aside from the policy differences. Adrian Dix has- until the last few days- been so relentlessly positive and non-combative that his campaign has felt like a slightly politicized adut version of Misterogers Neighborhood. You almost expected him to open his campaign rallies by slipping on a comfy cardigan and feeding a tankful of goldfish. The Liberals have been relentlessly negative, and at times, almost juvenile, with their silly emphasis on a skytrain ticket and the most recent bobblehead weathervane ad. They've dredged up the old WAC Bennett socialist-hordes-at-the-gates scare stuff. The Conservatives started out fairly strong, but had their candidate selection process turn into a gong show, and John Cummins hasn't helped with his weak debate performance and thin policy output. They have little in the way of finances or volunteers, and many disaffected Liberals have migrated back to Clark. Jane Sterk has grown as a campaigner since '09, but the Greens were the only party not to support their platform and promises with any sort of proper financing formula, which makes it easy to promise whatever makes you feel good.
The big corporate media has been desperate to portray the election as a horse race, which of course they need to do to sell advertising on the basis of how many people are following their coverage. We'll see.
But I'm predicting that Christy Clark will be defeated in Vancouver-Point Grey, and that the polls showing a 6-8 point NDP lead will be more or less correct. At least, I'm hoping.
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Post by Mike C on May 14, 2013 14:31:53 GMT -8
Why I voted Green:
I did it partly to send a strong message regarding my feelings towards the numerous, potentially disastrous lineup of pipeline proposals. I support the party's position on the environment. And I liked their leader more than any of the others - Jane Sterk has a strong head on her shoulders, is smart, tenacious, and good-willed.
I am not a huge fan of Adrian Dix, although I admit he has grown on me since my frustration when he was nominated as leader. When the NDP was going through the process of choosing a new leader, I think we all saw the writing on the walls that they were basically picking out the next premier of BC. I would have much preferred a more moderate MLA such as John Horgan or Mike Farnsworth - I don't think Dix was a necessarily a bad choice - but I think they had better to choose from.
My disdain for the Liberals speaks for itself.
And Neil is spot-on when he says that the Conservatives are nothing short of a gong show. And their leader looks suspiciously like Bill Vander Zalm, which doesn't help their case at all.
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