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Post by WettCoast on Aug 5, 2023 21:28:42 GMT -8
I guess in this day and age all the up to date info is considered helpful. But it turns out all is well this weekend, so the media hype was actually detrimental the traffic carried by the ferries on this busy period. Maybe next weekend or the one after that will be very busy, who knows. I remember asking my grandmother 20+ years ago if she was afraid of dying and she said no, the world has changed so much. It totally makes sense to me now. And no I don't need an intervention, my statement just comes from 60 years of living lol. I disagree that 'media hype' is to blame for any drop-off in holiday weekend traffic. BC Ferries is beset with crew shortages, mechanical breakdowns, and even major website glitches. That has been reported, but not exaggerated, and, the company has acknowledged the challenges they face. Like a lot of forum members, I've been following ferry issues for decades, and I think I can cut through uninformed bs, but if I were planning a getaway this weekend, I wouldn't have depended on the ferries either. I just got home from a week in the Interior with a sailing from to Duke Point this evening. Traffic was light and the sailing smooth. It helps if you use the reservation service.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Aug 7, 2023 12:15:13 GMT -8
I disagree that 'media hype' is to blame for any drop-off in holiday weekend traffic. BC Ferries is beset with crew shortages, mechanical breakdowns, and even major website glitches. That has been reported, but not exaggerated, and, the company has acknowledged the challenges they face. Like a lot of forum members, I've been following ferry issues for decades, and I think I can cut through uninformed bs, but if I were planning a getaway this weekend, I wouldn't have depended on the ferries either. ... from to Duke Point this evening. Traffic was light and the sailing smooth.... anybody on this board has a bs meter a lot better than that of the average person, but im a lil confused by your very first statement. on one hand you are saying its not related, but then u go on to cite the exact causes as reported by the same 'media hype machine'. 'media hype' is NOT to balme for the unexpected volume drop.... or do u mean the opposite, it IS? given a certain outcome is probable or potential, or even possible, does it not make sense that with negative inidacators, ppl with options would choose something different than using the ferries?
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 7, 2023 13:00:22 GMT -8
... from to Duke Point this evening. Traffic was light and the sailing smooth.... anybody on this board has a bs meter a lot better than that of the average person, but im a lil confused by your very first statement. on one hand you are saying its not related, but then u go on to cite the exact causes as reported by the same 'media hype machine'. 'media hype' is NOT to balme for the unexpected volume drop.... or do u mean the opposite, it IS? given a certain outcome is probable or potential, or even possible, does it not make sense that with negative inidacators, ppl with options would choose something different than using the ferries? I'm confused by your confusion. The term 'media hype', which I responded to, implies that things are being overblown. My point was that there have been a number of real factors impacting the reliability of BC Ferries, and it was the basic reporting of those problems that probably deterred some people from travelling, not 'hype' or exaggeration.
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Post by Ferryman on Aug 7, 2023 20:16:13 GMT -8
Departure Bay seemed to be the hotspot in the ferry system today, having the biggest overloads compared to the other major terminals and was at one point a 3 sailing wait there this afternoon. The Horseshoe Bay side of Route 2 was also busy, but it didn't have the sailing waits like at Departure bay. Duke Pt was the third busiest, leaving Route 1 as probably the least overloaded major route, likely averaging around a 1 sailing wait either direction.
It's times like these when Nanaimo and the Central/Northern portion of the island can most certainly justify the extra service with 5 boats coming and going at this time of year. People often complain that "Nanaimo is over-served by the ferry service", when most certainly it is not.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 7, 2023 20:50:42 GMT -8
Departure Bay seemed to be the hotspot in the ferry system today, having the biggest overloads compared to the other major terminals and was at one point a 3 sailing wait there this afternoon. The Horseshoe Bay side of Route 2 was also busy, but it didn't have the sailing waits like at Departure bay. Duke Pt was the third busiest, leaving Route 1 as probably the least overloaded major route, likely averaging around a 1 sailing wait either direction. It's times like these when Nanaimo and the Central/Northern portion of the island can most certainly justify the extra service with 5 boats coming and going at this time of year. People often complain that "Nanaimo is over-served by the ferry service", when most certainly it is not. Chris I think its time for BCFS to get busy on two additional boats for the major routes. In other words going from 11 to 13 vessels. That would be five vessels for route 1 (as has sometimes been the case in the past), 3 for route 2, 3 for route 30 and 2 for route 3. Furthermore they should be getting more use out of the extra vessels on routes 3 & 30 having them work longer days. Now I realize crewing even more sailings may be easier said than done, but it needs to happen. BC Ferries needs to restore their once proud reputation by any & all means possible.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 7, 2023 21:11:07 GMT -8
I'm confused by your confusion. The term 'media hype', which I responded to, implies that things are being overblown. My point was that there have been a number of real factors impacting the reliability of BC Ferries, and it was the basic reporting of those problems that probably deterred some people from travelling, not 'hype' or exaggeration. IN my opinion 'media hype' is an issue, especially with Facebook postings from much of the media. They need to do a much better job of providing context. Examples:
1 - multi sailing waits - the Times-colonist, CHEK TV etc could check their archives and explain to viewers/readers that multi sailing waits are hardly a new issue. They have been with us since about 1965, maybe earlier.
2 - Breakdowns happen and have been happening since forever. They are a fact of life and lead to chaos when they happen during periods of high demand. All ferry systems/ shipping companies have breakdowns. BCFS has had more than its fair share of late, especially with one particular vessel.
3 - The reservation system which seems to irritate a large portion of the public. The media needs to do a better job of explaining that a reservation system is a necessity. I would not want to go back to the way things were when there were no reservations and you waited six hours for 'your turn'. The one thing I would change about the reservation system would be to make it less expensive.
4 - The media could try to educate to population about bridges and why they won't be happening anytime soon. With a single exception that I can think of, the media has made little effort to explain why ferries are going to be with us for decades to come. 5 - Comparison with other systems (eg WSF, AMHS, Marine Atlantic, etc) and the issues those systems are facing. If the public was better informed by the media they would know that BCFS is hardly unique in the issues that it is facing.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Aug 8, 2023 10:54:56 GMT -8
i think the problem is how you and i perceive the term 'hype'. i associate it with blinking red highlites, things exaggerated, interrupting scheduled tv progamming and in your words, things overblown. i feel that the media has been quite responsible with their reporting hense i dont think its exaggerated overblown. top disagree bottom somewhat agree i think the problem is largely boat distribution. if they are deliberately pushing traffic through DP, then having the two german boats plus the alberni is prob the correct decision. rt2 is prob underserved by just the Cow and OB while rt3 having both the Surrey and Coq is prob overserved. if i may take my turn playing ferry master, the best solution is having 2.5 on rt2 and 1.5 on rt3. ill remove my hat and go back to my corner now and let u guys figure out how that would work (wreck havoc) with the schedules! Aug 7, 2023 22:11:07 GMT -7 WettCoast said: 1 - multi sailing waits
2 - Breakdowns happen
3 - The reservation system
4 - ... about bridges 5 - Comparison with other systems
1. i dont know how u guys feel, but i think ppl in general are getting stoopider. ppl think if they show up and pay, they can get on the next ferry regardless of the time or the date. ! 2. when these happen on long wknds, it gets magnified. from urban legend to myth to what is probably somewhat true nowadays, each long wknd, something big/ bad happens 3. ppl have a lot of gripe about this b/c of the secrecy over how much is allocated each sailing. i sense that b/c its such a revenue generator and b/c revealing it would put itself in such a bad le1se, its deliberately kept secret. 4. (see pt1) + ppl will always hate BCF, lazy union workers, the gov't..., a bridge is always the easiest solution to #^¿ 'em all. and dont even start me on comparing how much we suck compared to _____! if they can do it, why cant we, g-dig-it?!? 5. true, but its always easier to crticise than it is to compliment. thats why the response rate is always something like 10:1
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 8, 2023 21:15:36 GMT -8
I'm confused by your confusion. The term 'media hype', which I responded to, implies that things are being overblown. My point was that there have been a number of real factors impacting the reliability of BC Ferries, and it was the basic reporting of those problems that probably deterred some people from travelling, not 'hype' or exaggeration. IN my opinion 'media hype' is an issue, especially with Facebook postings from much of the media. They need to do a much better job of providing context. Examples:
1 - multi sailing waits - the Times-colonist, CHEK TV etc could check their archives and explain to viewers/readers that multi sailing waits are hardly a new issue. They have been with us since about 1965, maybe earlier.
2 - Breakdowns happen and have been happening since forever. They are a fact of life and lead to chaos when they happen during periods of high demand. All ferry systems/ shipping companies have breakdowns. BCFS has had more than its fair share of late, especially with one particular vessel.
3 - The reservation system which seems to irritate a large portion of the public. The media needs to do a better job of explaining that a reservation system is a necessity. I would not want to go back to the way things were when there were no reservations and you waited six hours for 'your turn'. The one thing I would change about the reservation system would be to make it less expensive.
4 - The media could try to educate to population about bridges and why they won't be happening anytime soon. With a single exception that I can think of, the media has made little effort to explain why ferries are going to be with us for decades to come. 5 - Comparison with other systems (eg WSF, AMHS, Marine Atlantic, etc) and the issues those systems are facing. If the public was better informed by the media they would know that BCFS is hardly unique in the issues that it is facing.
When we talk about 'the media' and mention CHEK or the Times Colonist or any other legacy/mainstream outlet, we have to keep in mind that these sources are tiny slivers of their former selves. Expecting them to check archives is unrealistic. They're most likely going to report what's going on now, without a lot of context. My old employer, which through various iterations has produced the Vancouver Sun and Province, is owned by an American hedge fund which will keep things tottering along until there's no longer a revenue stream. No resources for investigative reporting. And we can't hope for much better from the likes of Vancouver Is Awesome, Daily Hive, or The Tyee. Limited resources there as well. Increasingly, the public is left to parse what information they can come up with, and make their own conclusions. Doesn't make for a smarter, better informed society, that's for sure, whether it's about ferries, or more pressing issues.
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Post by hwy19man on Aug 18, 2023 13:23:14 GMT -8
The test of patience is happening again as Route 1 from TSA had a six sailing wait at 1400h.
At 1445h, Route 30 is full from TSA to Duke Point (four waits). From Duke Point, it is two waits with the last two sailings having at over 90% capacity.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Oct 13, 2023 13:05:50 GMT -8
another test of resiliance/ patience:
following the sudden removal of SVI b/c for this emergency drydock and the renaissance still out, (plus the cowichan gone for refit?), ms marshall and the news last night put out quite an effort to warn about congestion, delays, the need to reserve...
just checked a few mins ago and yes, 1-3 sailing waits at all 5 terminals, but nothing apocalyptic so far. but to be fair, its not me in line waiting there with kids, perishing groceries, after a draining medical proceedure...
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 18, 2023 15:40:36 GMT -8
I wonder why the Coastal Class become so bad as main vessels on route 1 because BC Ferries put Coastal Celebration as main vessel out Swartz Bay after Thanksgiving weekend until 2019.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Dec 22, 2023 15:33:14 GMT -8
yep. ferries busy. am730 said td is the busiest day of the yr. im at TSW and yeah, looks/ feels busy, but not bursting explosion ferrygeddon busy. feels very swallowable busy.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Feb 25, 2024 15:13:10 GMT -8
im quite aware of the schedule argument, and ive always said to h#&* with that, but ill say it anyways:
- 'sigh'.... i really wish they kept AND USED those platform decks on the spirits
- 'siGh' 'SiGh'... i really wish they had the foresight to install them on the always broken class
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Post by 1foot2ships on Feb 25, 2024 15:21:26 GMT -8
separate item: SBC is in dock4 and over the PA they just instructed footies to board via the MCD. is there any reason for that besides to slow the boat down to match the coastal?#?!
only thing unusal td is that its super windy. could this be a reason?
fwiw... this will make the boat from ontime to late
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 25, 2024 16:04:21 GMT -8
im quite aware of the schedule argument, and ive always said to h#&* with that, but ill say it anyways: - 'sigh'.... i really wish they kept AND USED those platform decks on the spirits - 'siGh' 'SiGh'... i really wish they had the foresight to install them on the always broken class I think platform decks could lead sailing cancellations due vessels needing to get back on schedule which would therefore reduce route capacity at end of day.
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Post by 1foot2ships on Feb 25, 2024 19:33:51 GMT -8
disagree.
im situations where traffic volume is so high (induced, natural, weather related, any reason actually), prioritising the schedule would be an invitation for criticism - that of the valid type.
having the ability to lower platforms gives operations at least the option of taking an extra 20-30.
human nature is weird. although we are the most intelligent beings on earth, something like watching a huge queue form without noticable movement, or any "fair" processing of said backlog, quickly causes second guessing, fingerpointing, accusations and other bad behaviours. guess who has to deal with that later?
im already convinced, but i hope others would agree, it would make a difference.
in a world of many needs and limited resources, only a fool would sacrifice efficiency for other goals*.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 25, 2024 19:54:59 GMT -8
disagree. im situations where traffic volume is so high (induced, natural, weather related, any reason actually), prioritising the schedule would be an invitation for criticism - that of the valid type. having the ability to lower platforms gives operations at least the option of taking an extra 20-30. human nature is weird. although we are the most intelligent beings on earth, something like watching a huge queue form without noticable movement, or any "fair" processing of said backlog, quickly causes second guessing, fingerpointing, accusations and other bad behaviours. guess who has to deal with that later? im already convinced, but i hope others would agree, it would make a difference. in a world of many needs and limited resources, only a fool would sacrifice efficiency for other goals*. I don’t think additional 70 cars is good reason to cancel sailing that could carry 358 vehicles plus 2100 passengers. If math correct that is only 420 additional vehicles moved through out the day which is only 3284 vehicle plus 12600 passengers with six sailing a day compared 2864 vehicles and 16800 passengers on eight sailing day. I think 4600 passengers are more important than 420 vehicles a day.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 25, 2024 20:44:05 GMT -8
disagree. im situations where traffic volume is so high (induced, natural, weather related, any reason actually), prioritising the schedule would be an invitation for criticism - that of the valid type. having the ability to lower platforms gives operations at least the option of taking an extra 20-30. human nature is weird. although we are the most intelligent beings on earth, something like watching a huge queue form without noticable movement, or any "fair" processing of said backlog, quickly causes second guessing, fingerpointing, accusations and other bad behaviours. guess who has to deal with that later? im already convinced, but i hope others would agree, it would make a difference. in a world of many needs and limited resources, only a fool would sacrifice efficiency for other goals*. I am in agreement. BC Ferries needs to do what ever they can to accommodate traffic on remaining sailings when a vessel goes down which is the current situation on Route 1. If that means lengthy delays I feel that that is quite alright under the circumstances. The company has been prioritizing punctuality over service and in some situations that is wrong. I have also argued that keeping functional main car deck ramps could really assist during difficult circumstances.
Another thing they could be doing is ensuring that the decks are stacked tightly. They did a much better job of that years ago.
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Post by northwesterner on Feb 25, 2024 23:00:39 GMT -8
I am in agreement. BC Ferries needs to do what ever they can to accommodate traffic on remaining sailings when a vessel goes down which is the current situation on Route 1. If that means lengthy delays I feel that that is quite alright under the circumstances. The company has been prioritizing punctuality over service and in some situations that is wrong. I have also argued that keeping functional main car deck ramps could really assist during difficult circumstances.
Another thing they could be doing is ensuring that the decks are stacked tightly. They did a much better job of that years ago. Before the platform decks were removed on the Spirits, they had been out of service for many, many years, right?
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 26, 2024 9:36:40 GMT -8
Yes, they had not been used in years. But that was the result of BCFS’s prioritization of maintaining the schedule over maximizing how many cars they could carry. If they had simply adjusted the schedule as they have done on route 2 they could have increased the dwell time and thereby allowed use of the platforms.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 26, 2024 14:54:32 GMT -8
Yes, they had not been used in years. But that was the result of BCFS’s prioritization of maintaining the schedule over maximizing how many cars they could carry. If they had simply adjusted the schedule as they have done on route 2 they could have increased the dwell time and thereby allowed use of the platforms. I think prioritization of maintaining schedule is coming from foot passenger traffic and crew work life balance because I don’t see TransLink and BC Transit doing service change every schedule on route 1 and employees do matter. I think there is fine line between cars and foot passengers plus work life balance and I think BC Ferries picked correct way of approaching it.
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Post by WettCoast on Feb 26, 2024 20:46:42 GMT -8
I think prioritization of maintaining schedule is coming from foot passenger traffic and crew work life balance because I don’t see TransLink and BC Transit doing service change every schedule on route 1 and employees do matter. I think there is fine line between cars and foot passengers plus work life balance and I think BC Ferries picked correct way of approaching it. You are making good points BBF, issues that I had not thought about. However, do you think BC Ferries consulted with BC Transit or Translink when they altered route 1 schedules to deal with Coastal class navigational issues?
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Feb 27, 2024 0:08:46 GMT -8
I think prioritization of maintaining schedule is coming from foot passenger traffic and crew work life balance because I don’t see TransLink and BC Transit doing service change every schedule on route 1 and employees do matter. I think there is fine line between cars and foot passengers plus work life balance and I think BC Ferries picked correct way of approaching it. You are making good points BBF, issues that I had not thought about. However, do you think BC Ferries consulted with BC Transit or Translink when they altered route 1 schedules to deal with Coastal class navigational issues? Nope they have not consulted with BC Transit or BC Transit because both BC Transit and TransLink still currently seem to think vessels arrive at on 35 min of hour and leave on the hour.
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