dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Mar 16, 2020 18:47:16 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 16, 2020 19:23:20 GMT -8
I disagree with the decision to lock the coronavirus thread. I don't think there would be any more arguing about recognizing the threats in travel; I think the thread would have been useful as a historical record of this unique upheaval in our transportation patterns. I thought it was ridiculous that Transport Canada originally denied BC Ferries' request to allow people to stay on the enclosed car deck. As far as we know, the last documented death of a person on an enclosed car deck, due to mishap, was 1970, on the Queen of Victoria. The current situation, in my view, is a far greater danger than what Transport Canada was taking into account. We're having sailing cancellations due to a lack of traffic. People's attitudes are changing rapidly- I admit to doing a fan trip a week ago- something I certainly wouldn't do now. Our lives are being impacted in so many ways, and it changes daily, if not hourly. I think there's a value in a specific thread chronicling this virus' effect on BC Ferries, but I suppose people will find a way to post things to existing threads, if that's how it needs to be done. But sticking this into 'general news items' doesn't seem like the best plan.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 16, 2020 19:51:41 GMT -8
I disagree with the decision to lock the coronavirus thread. I don't think there would be any more arguing about recognizing the threats in travel; I think the thread would have been useful as a historical record of this unique upheaval in our transportation patterns. I very much agree Neil that the moderators have made a bad call in deciding to lock the coronavirus thread. Are you listening moderators? This virus will be the news story of 2020, and it will also be the dominant story re ferry (and cruise ship) operations world wide in 2020. I also think that TC's decision to relax the lower car deck rule is not an especially good one. Ignoring one serious safety issue because of another issue is problematic. I believe now is the time to insure that passengers on board ferries can follow recommended 'social distancing' by temporarily reducing passenger licence number to maybe 25% of normal. If I was on the ferries now I would be out on the outer decks about 100% of the time, but that is pretty much what I do anyways.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 16, 2020 20:22:29 GMT -8
I disagree with the decision to lock the coronavirus thread. I don't think there would be any more arguing about recognizing the threats in travel; I think the thread would have been useful as a historical record of this unique upheaval in our transportation patterns. I very much agree Neil that the moderators have made a bad call in deciding to lock the coronavirus thread. Are you listening moderators? This virus will be the news story of 2020, and it will also be the dominant story re ferry (and cruise ship) operations world wide in 2020. I also think that TC's decision to relax the lower car deck rule is not an especially good one. Ignoring one serious safety issue because of another issue is problematic. I believe now is the time to insure that passengers on board ferries can follow recommended 'social distancing' by temporarily reducing passenger licence number to maybe 25% of normal. If I was on the ferries now I would be out on the outer decks about 100% of the time, but that is pretty much what I do anyways. Jim, I disagree about the lower car deck issue... looking at relative threats, it just seems that one is so much more clear, in the short run. Absolutely agree with altering the maximum passenger count, and I suspect that will happen before long. Also wouldn't be surprised if they shut down food services entirely. Even last week, there were far fewer people eating, from what I saw. Not difficult to take food with you, and I expect that's what far more folks will be doing until this situation improves.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 16, 2020 20:42:07 GMT -8
Jim, I disagree about the lower car deck issue... looking at relative threats, it just seems that one is so much more clear, in the short run. Absolutely agree with altering the maximum passenger count, and I suspect that will happen before long. Also wouldn't be surprised if they shut down food services entirely. Even last week, there were far fewer people eating, from what I saw. Not difficult to take food with you, and I expect that's what far more folks will be doing until this situation improves. At the moment the COVID-19 issue is the larger concern, but Neil, when you cite the Queen of Victoria 1970 accident and say 'only 2 people died', you surely have to recognize that they were lucky that it was only two (there was a third on an upper deck). It was just by the grace of God that that accident was not far worse.
I don't think anyone should be ferry travelling 'just for the heck of it' now. We need to listen to health authorities and stop the spread & flatten the curve. And moderators, please 'collect' this discussion and place it where it belongs, in the thread you 'locked'.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 16, 2020 22:00:54 GMT -8
I disagree with the decision to lock the coronavirus thread. I don't think there would be any more arguing about recognizing the threats in travel; I think the thread would have been useful as a historical record of this unique upheaval in our transportation patterns. I thought it was ridiculous that Transport Canada originally denied BC Ferries' request to allow people to stay on the enclosed car deck. As far as we know, the last documented death of a person on an enclosed car deck, due to mishap, was 1970, on the Queen of Victoria. The current situation, in my view, is a far greater danger than what Transport Canada was taking into account. We're having sailing cancellations due to a lack of traffic. People's attitudes are changing rapidly- I admit to doing a fan trip a week ago- something I certainly wouldn't do now. Our lives are being impacted in so many ways, and it changes daily, if not hourly. I think there's a value in a specific thread chronicling this virus' effect on BC Ferries, but I suppose people will find a way to post things to existing threads, if that's how it needs to be done. But sticking this into 'general news items' doesn't seem like the best plan. Neil, I appreciate the constructive feedback. I am less concerned about having an archive of discussion on this, and more concerned about the nature of the discussion itself, and throwing on the brakes. In a time when we need to be united in consideration for those other than ourselves, the argumentative nature was, I believe, to the detriment of that. I think that we can commit to watching how things progress and adapt accordingly, as this forum has always evolved. The nice thing about an online setting like this is that this is entirely an organizational question, and these posts of record are not being removed and can be reorganized at any time. We will watch and adapt. However: other members issuing demands to moderators proves that the hostility around this subject is very much pervasive, contributes nothing productive, and I am wholly disinterested in airing grievances in this setting. We’re a group of volunteers and we try to make the right decisions based on the information we have available to us at the time.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 16, 2020 22:06:11 GMT -8
Jim, I disagree about the lower car deck issue... looking at relative threats, it just seems that one is so much more clear, in the short run. Absolutely agree with altering the maximum passenger count, and I suspect that will happen before long. Also wouldn't be surprised if they shut down food services entirely. Even last week, there were far fewer people eating, from what I saw. Not difficult to take food with you, and I expect that's what far more folks will be doing until this situation improves. At the moment the COVID-19 issue is the larger concern, but Neil, when you cite the Queen of Victoria 1970 accident and say 'only 2 people died', you surely have to recognize that they were lucky that it was only two (there was a third on an upper deck). It was just by the grace of God that that accident was not far worse.
I don't think anyone should be ferry travelling 'just for the heck of it' now. We need to listen to health authorities and stop the spread & flatten the curve. And moderators, please 'collect' this discussion and place it where it belongs, in the thread you 'locked'. Looking at my post from two hours ago, I did not phrase it as 'only two people died'. I agree with you completely... no one should be taking fun trips on ferries right now. My excursion last Thursday was a clear error in judgment.
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Post by WettCoast on Mar 16, 2020 22:18:55 GMT -8
I agree with you completely... no one should be taking fun trips on ferries right now. My excursion last Thursday was a clear error in judgment. That was last Thursday. That was before most of the more stringent warnings were being issued by authorities.
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Post by Kahloke on Mar 17, 2020 7:22:39 GMT -8
This is most certainly an evolving situation. I think total lock-down, like what Italy has, is a very real possibility - we shall see. As for the now closed Coronavirus thread, I am in agreement with Mike. It was starting to get off-topic and away from transportation. There are plenty of existing threads to discuss Coronavirus and its impacts to the ferries and other transportation modes we discuss on the forum. I'm not going to discourage you from discussing the impacts of COVID 19 - that is our lives these days - but I would encourage you to keep it ferries and transportation-related. Thanks!
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 19, 2020 21:55:19 GMT -8
I see that both BC Ferries and WSF have shut down all food services. I observed a week ago that the cafeteria on a route one sailing was fairly empty. For a couple of days, they tried having just the food in the coolers, but apparently, no one was buying that either.
In these troubled times, people are probably not having difficulty bringing food with them, or simply timing meals so as not to have to eat on board. Everyone's making huge adjustments, and food on ferries is a fairly small one.
I suppose most of the sailings that normally have full food services are sailing under a reduced passenger license, requiring fewer crew. Still, there must be cafeteria staff who have to be deployed to other work on board, if it can be found.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Mar 19, 2020 23:06:41 GMT -8
I see that both BC Ferries and WSF have shut down all food services. I observed a week ago that the cafeteria on a route one sailing was fairly empty. For a couple of days, they tried having just the food in the coolers, but apparently, no one was buying that either. In these troubled times, people are probably not having difficulty bringing food with them, or simply timing meals so as not to have to eat on board. Everyone's making huge adjustments, and food on ferries is a fairly small one. I suppose most of the sailings that normally have full food services are sailing under a reduced passenger license, requiring fewer crew. Still, there must be cafeteria staff who have to be deployed to other work on board, if it can be found. I'm sure there is plenty of work to go around with the extra cleaning and sanitizing that's happening now. We're getting into the pre busy season where they start training new seasonal employees... which will be difficult to do under these circumstances. Even if this blows over quickly there will be lasting effects for some time to come.
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Post by Balfour on Mar 20, 2020 19:22:01 GMT -8
I see that both BC Ferries and WSF have shut down all food services. I observed a week ago that the cafeteria on a route one sailing was fairly empty. For a couple of days, they tried having just the food in the coolers, but apparently, no one was buying that either. In these troubled times, people are probably not having difficulty bringing food with them, or simply timing meals so as not to have to eat on board. Everyone's making huge adjustments, and food on ferries is a fairly small one. I suppose most of the sailings that normally have full food services are sailing under a reduced passenger license, requiring fewer crew. Still, there must be cafeteria staff who have to be deployed to other work on board, if it can be found. I'm sure there is plenty of work to go around with the extra cleaning and sanitizing that's happening now. We're getting into the pre busy season where they start training new seasonal employees... which will be difficult to do under these circumstances. Even if this blows over quickly there will be lasting effects for some time to come. Yes, the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic will be felt for years, It will take some time for many people to have the disposable income again to travel and that will affect ferry traffic. It could be years before we see BC Ferries returning to the traffic levels seen in recent years. In other news it's Good to see BC Ferries is doing the right thing to ensure their food doesn't go to waste while food service is suspended www.victoriabuzz.com/2020/03/bc-ferries-suspends-all-food-service-donates-perishables-to-victoria-charity/?fbclid=IwAR0MWbo_4ER6uQbjv68jVHP9vmcurKbebFLXdUjVPo1zR7c-xLEuOmA5fX0
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dave2
Chief Steward
Deckhand!: Todo: Introduction post (I was born less than 100 feet from the ocean. The tide was...)
Posts: 155
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Post by dave2 on Mar 23, 2020 12:24:21 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 24, 2020 20:24:44 GMT -8
As many of us have read and heard, particularly if we frequent the facebook pages for various island communities, residents there have been hoping that tourists and casual visitors will stop accessing their vulnerable localities. Some of these places have a disproportionate number of elderly folks. So, good on BC Ferries for issuing a service notice asking people to restrict travel to only what is necessary. I wonder if there will be anything posted at terminals. Unenforceable, of course, but my sense is that a huge portion of the public is being pretty conscientious these days.
Pretty rough, the elimination of all food services on northern routes as of the 30th. It's one thing to do without an 'all aboard' breakfast on the ninety minute haul from Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay, but another matter entirely when you might be spending upwards of twenty hours heading to Prince Rupert. There will have to be some advance 'picnic' planning for families determined to do that crossing.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 24, 2020 20:29:33 GMT -8
It's worth noting that they actually adjusted the schedules on both Route 2 & 3. I've never quite understood that vessel shift; historically, it was never a feature of the route 2-3 schedules. The revised schedule seems to make more sense, in terms of the spacing of sailings, but perhaps someone more familiar with the needs of the routes has some insight into why the shift was done, a few years back.
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Post by hwy19man on Mar 25, 2020 4:00:59 GMT -8
It's worth noting that they actually adjusted the schedules on both Route 2 & 3. I've never quite understood that vessel shift; historically, it was never a feature of the route 2-3 schedules. The revised schedule seems to make more sense, in terms of the spacing of sailings, but perhaps someone more familiar with the needs of the routes has some insight into why the shift was done, a few years back. The reason for the vessel shift on routes 2 and 3 was to allow for the 1730h departure from HSB to Langdale. Commuters on route 3 have been wanting that departure time to be consistent year round.
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Post by Starsteward on Mar 25, 2020 10:16:50 GMT -8
As many of us have read and heard, particularly if we frequent the facebook pages for various island communities, residents there have been hoping that tourists and casual visitors will stop accessing their vulnerable localities. Some of these places have a disproportionate number of elderly folks. So, good on BC Ferries for issuing a service notice asking people to restrict travel to only what is necessary. I wonder if there will be anything posted at terminals. Unenforceable, of course, but my sense is that a huge portion of the public is being pretty conscientious these days. Pretty rough, the elimination of all food services on northern routes as of the 30th. It's one thing to do without an 'all aboard' breakfast on the ninety minute haul from Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay, but another matter entirely when you might be spending upwards of twenty hours heading to Prince Rupert. There will have to be some advance 'picnic' planning for families determined to do that crossing. Depending on which 'northern route' someone may book passage, one brilliant idea that BCFS should consider is lowering the tariff on staterooms, Drastically! Yes, staterooms would have to be thoroughly cleaned after each travel segment but, renting staterooms would give passengers 'social/physical distancing' peace of mind AND, as you say 'Neil', maybe a better location for families to enjoy their 'planned picnic' menus, rather than having 'picnic ofal' strewn about all major seating areas and those little nooks and crannies that somehow folks seem to discover. More thoughts later on the entire food service curtailment as I believe there may be a way to introduce a ready to re-heat and eat 'airline' type meal package for discriminating travelers rather than have the BCFS galleys turning out menu items that are difficult to display/serve in the general open-area lay-out of most eateries on the BCFS vessels. AND, No, Mr. Toigo, we're not considering 'Pirate Packs' as food for thought in this exercise.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Mar 27, 2020 16:29:14 GMT -8
Could BC Ferries bring one boat service to route 1, 2 and 30 due drop ridership?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 27, 2020 16:37:21 GMT -8
This is from Darin Guenette, reposted on a Hornby facebook page. It is from four days ago, and refers to the previous day's traffic. I imagine the numbers have dropped even more by now.
Traffic yesterday was down approximately 65+% (passengers)/55+% (vehicles) down across all inter-island routes in our network. It was down on the Major routes (between V.Island/Sunshine Coast and Metro Vcr) closer to 80% (pass) and 65% (veh). These are all compared to the same time in 2019.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Mar 27, 2020 22:03:13 GMT -8
Could BC Ferries bring one boat service to route 1, 2 and 30 due drop ridership? Wouldn't bet against it, given the empty space on board. Difference from WSF is that if Bainbridge loses a vessel, there's still a sailing slightly better than every two hours. Route 30 loses a boat, there's a five hour interval.
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Post by yak on Mar 27, 2020 22:12:36 GMT -8
This is from Darin Guenette, reposted on a Hornby facebook page. It is from four days ago, and refers to the previous day's traffic. I imagine the numbers have dropped even more by now. Traffic yesterday was down approximately 65+% (passengers)/55+% (vehicles) down across all inter-island routes in our network. It was down on the Major routes (between V.Island/Sunshine Coast and Metro Vcr) closer to 80% (pass) and 65% (veh). These are all compared to the same time in 2019.Speaking anecdotally from what I've witnessed the last week Little River to Westview has progressively dropped off. A "busy" sailing last Friday was around 100 passengers and this Friday has been closer to 50. On lighter sailings the passenger counts are now generally in the low teens on a ferry licensed to carry 600 souls...
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Post by hwy19man on Mar 28, 2020 13:40:58 GMT -8
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Post by Mike on Apr 3, 2020 10:07:45 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 3, 2020 10:37:05 GMT -8
BC Ferries service reductions will take effect tomorrow, April 4, 2020 It makes sense that for Route 30, the commercial-only sailings are on the Queen of Alberni, while the general-public sailings are on the Coastal Inspiration. Alberni finds her niche as a truck-only ferry.
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Post by timmyc on Apr 3, 2020 10:42:12 GMT -8
Reduced BCF service just published: www.bcferries.com/about/projects/covid-19.htmlGoes into effect tomorrow (April 4). It will last for 60 days on major routes and until further notice on other routes. Metro Vancouver – Vancouver IslandTsawwassen – Swartz Bay: four departures from each terminal daily Tsawwassen – Duke Point: four departures open to the public from each terminal daily Tsawwassen – Duke Point: four cargo-only departures from each terminal daily (Mon – Fri) Horseshoe Bay – Departure Bay: service suspended until further notice Travel to Nanaimo available via the Tsawwassen-Duke Point route Sunshine Coast Horseshoe Bay – Langdale: six departures from each terminal daily Vancouver IslandBrentwood Bay – Mill Bay: service on this route suspended until further notice Southern Gulf IslandsDetails are currently being finalized and will be announced soon. North and central coast serviceBC Ferries will continue to operate at the current off-peak (winter) service levels. The direct summer service from Bella Coola to Port Hardy will not be introduced at this time. Customers on affected sailings will be notified by mid-May.
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