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Post by Curtis on Oct 21, 2010 23:57:45 GMT -8
With the recent discussion in the Coastal Class Placement thread, I had an idea. Which vessel do we think is next? In this poll, I've chosen 16 Minor and Intermediate vessels that may not live past this Decade. The 17th choice, "Other" applies to all other vessels in the fleet. Feel free to post the reason for your choice.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 22, 2010 5:36:53 GMT -8
Since BCF is already investingating plans on replacing the NIP and QoBurnaby, I wouldn't be surprised if those two are some of the first. If I could vote for more than one ship, I'd choose Bowen Queen, Mayne Queen, Mill Bay, and maybe Queen of Burnaby.
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Post by NMcKay on Oct 22, 2010 8:40:17 GMT -8
lol... if its a retired first poll.. im gonna go with the Klatawa and Kulleet.
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Post by stvfishy on Oct 22, 2010 8:41:09 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 22, 2010 8:47:37 GMT -8
The old "Performance term two" list of expected vessel retirements appears to have been abandoned by BC Ferries, as indicated by their recent upgrades / life-extensions to some of their minor-vessels. This is evidenced by the Tenaka's recent life-extension upgrade and also the same type of upgrade currently being done on the Quadra Queen II. Pretty soon, we'll have the performance-term-three list of vessels, and this will give us a real idea of BC Ferries' updated expectations of use of vessels for the next 5 years.
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Post by stvfishy on Oct 22, 2010 8:57:09 GMT -8
Interesting... The old "Performance term two" list of expected vessel retirements appears to have been abandoned by BC Ferries, as indicated by their recent upgrades / life-extensions to some of their minor-vessels. This is evidenced by the Tenaka's recent life-extension upgrade and also the same type of upgrade currently being done on the Quadra Queen II. Pretty soon, we'll have the performance-term-three list of vessels, and this will give us a real idea of BC Ferries' updated expectations of use of vessels for the next 5 years.
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Post by Queen of Vancouver on Oct 22, 2010 17:24:13 GMT -8
i think the queen of chilliwack is going to be first because of the sailing from norway and I think I heard something about it being retired soon
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 22, 2010 20:37:56 GMT -8
i think the queen of chilliwack is going to be first because of the sailing from norway and I think I heard something about it being retired soon I think not. BC Ferries has no replacement vessel, and the vessel they plan to build to replace her, the Northern Discovery is only in the plans for the distant future. We're likely to see at least 10 more years of service out of the 'Chilliwack. So unless someone's got a more than perfect replacement for her up their sleeve, and is welling to sell it at rock-bottom prices to BCF, then I doubt she'll be the first to leave the fleet.
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Post by Curtis on Oct 23, 2010 11:58:16 GMT -8
The Chilliwack will be recieving a Major Upgrade soon, so she'll be around for awhile longer.
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Post by sunshinecoastkid on Oct 23, 2010 12:59:11 GMT -8
I believe that either the Mill Bay or North Island Princess are next. They are the older ships in the fleet. Plus there are lots of minor vessels sitting around that could use a route.
In this case I am thinking the Mill Bay will go first. The NIP is a great choice for Texada - PR because she can handle rough waters fairly well. But you never know, BC Ferries can retire the NIP and move Tachek or Tenaka down here.
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Post by DENelson83 on Oct 23, 2010 13:15:31 GMT -8
Well, if the NIP is to be retired next, and neither of the T vessels are suitable, what will BCF do?
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Oct 23, 2010 13:33:21 GMT -8
This debate is silly. If you read BCF's quarterly reports, they pretty much say that they don't anticipate any major retirements or vessel shuffles for the next few years, and also don't anticipate building anything new. The minor vessels are going to continue getting life extensions, and we are going to see longer periods between refits, because shipyard time is becoming harder to get.
That said, Klitsa is more or less surplus right now, and the Mill Bay is getting to the end of her useful life. Back in 2001 when she had her life extension, BCFC said it would extend her life for 10 years. Well, 10 years is almost up, and she's had very little aside from ongoing maintenance. I could see the Klitsa replacing her in the next little while.
Don't hold your breath waiting for BCF to ride in and snap up the albion boats. They don't have storage room (See the QPR still sitting there?), and really don't have a need for them.
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Post by fargowolf on Oct 23, 2010 14:22:01 GMT -8
I voted for the Queen of Nanaimo, because I have the feeling that BCF would like to replace all the remaining first generation vessels first. If I was able to cast more than one ballot, I would, like other members, go with the North Island Princess.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 23, 2010 14:29:43 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity... would it be feasible to retire two of the Swartz Bay-SGI route ferries, and have them replaced with the Island Sky down there, then bring up the Klitsa and buy one of the Albion boats to run with her up on the Saltery Bay-Earls Cove route? This way, there'd be more frequent service with similar capacity. If absolutely necessary, they could buy the other Albion ferry too, and use her as increased capacity on some other route.
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Post by DENelson83 on Oct 23, 2010 14:45:28 GMT -8
Well, the Mayne Queen would be easier to dispose of than the Queen of Cumberland, since the Q-Cumber was built in the early 90's.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Oct 23, 2010 14:51:57 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity... would it be feasible to retire two of the Swartz Bay-SGI route ferries, and have them replaced with the Island Sky down there, then bring up the Klitsa and buy one of the Albion boats to run with her up on the Saltery Bay-Earls Cove route? This way, there'd be more frequent service with similar capacity. If absolutely necessary, they could buy the other Albion ferry too, and use her as increased capacity on some other route. How do you figure similar capacity? Q-cumber takes about 120 cars with ramps (and yes, her ramps are used), Mayne takes about 75. Total capacity is therefor somewhere in the neighbourhood of 200. I-sky takes 125, K class takes 30ish. Total capacity of 155. Not to mention, frequency of service would be severely diminished with a boat only capable of 9 knots. Also, Mayne Queen is still in great shape, and will stick around for a while yet. So, in a word, NO.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 23, 2010 16:44:11 GMT -8
The vessel that is the next to 'go' is anyone's guess. To my mind the B's (not including the QoNWM) ought to be replaced within the next few years. The Burnbaby, in particular, ought to go this year. The problem, it would seem, is that BCFS's is strapped for cash and will not be undertaking any new builds any time in the near future.
My wild card suggestion, however, is that the NorAd may be the first to go simply because of its costs to operate and maintain, and that it really does not 'fit in'.
PS: I spotted a typo in what I have typed above but have decided to not make a correction.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 23, 2010 16:47:43 GMT -8
This debate is silly. If you read BCF's quarterly reports, they pretty much say that they don't anticipate any major retirements or vessel shuffles for the next few years, and also don't anticipate building anything new. Yes, it's easy to debate stuff when you ignore the information that's available to you....but it could be more constructive if everyone started with the facts available to us all. Here's the last comprehensive vessel-plan that the public has access to. It's now a few years old, and will be updated soon (as you may have read me post about this a few times in the past few days). - That plan is now obviously obsolete, as evidenced by the recent vessel upgrades and by comments in all of the recent quarterly reports that lack exciting pictures and cool stuff to talk about. - the comprehensive route-by-route descriptions start on page 36 of this PDF. Remember that this is based on the plan proposed as at September 2006, 4 years ago. www.bcferries.com/files/AboutBCF/Consolidated_Contract_Final_-_August_17_2009.pdf
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 23, 2010 17:00:21 GMT -8
To my mind the B's (not including the QoNWM) ought to be replaced within the next few years. I agree with you that they've reached their useful life limit, but as we've come to the conclusion that BCF is strapped for cash, maybe there's the potential they might give at least one of them a major life-extension instead of a slightly pricier newbuild? That's what one would think, but do we really think that BCF will have the money to build replacements for NorAd, QoChilliwack, QoBurnaby, QoNanaimo, and at least 4 minor ships in the next twenty years? Keep in mind that by the time that BCF actually has the money to replace all these ships, especially the large ones, the C-Class ferries will be almost as old as the V's were when their retirements commenced, so we'd need some new ships to replace them, too. At least for those, we already have the Coastal class design to work off of. So, if we really are going to be waiting 10-20 years for all these replacements, we might be in need of at least 13 new ships, not including the numerous other minor vessels that'll be coming of age around then, like the K-barges, PRQ-class ferries, the original Q-boat, etc... If we don't wanna be running a fleet of Steel-Electric-aged vessels, we'd better get to replacing our older ferries pretty soon. ;D
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Oct 23, 2010 20:14:49 GMT -8
I agree that the Norad should be the first to go, but that would mean that the present day ferry management watch would have to fall on their swords and admit that the much older marine hardware is better suited to our coast than this offshore newly acqured garbage. The first needed requirement should have been roll-on-roll off is essental and that was recoginized in 1966 by the original ferry management generation. mr.dot.
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Post by fargowolf on Oct 24, 2010 6:06:52 GMT -8
Queen of Burnbaby? Must be a new vessel. ;D Correct spelling: B-U-R-N-A-B-Y
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 24, 2010 6:55:17 GMT -8
Correct spelling: B-U-R-N-A-B-Y Thanks man. I was always wondering how to spell that correctly, and now someone has taken the time to teach me. I'm glad for that. ;D
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 24, 2010 8:20:18 GMT -8
Queen of Burnbaby? Must be a new vessel. ;D Correct spelling: B-U-R-N-A-B-Y No, this is a real vessel. BC Ferries was paid $20,000 to rename the North Island Princess for one year when this song came out:
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Post by Curtis on Oct 24, 2010 9:36:32 GMT -8
Or perhaps Burnbaby refers to her being the last of the Seven Sisters. ;D Least it's better than Que O Bunaby. I actually put that through a Spanish translator, "Que o" means "Than or" according to it. Meanwhile the "Bunaby" part can be whatever you want it to mean.
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Post by fargowolf on Oct 24, 2010 13:29:03 GMT -8
Queen of Burnbaby? Must be a new vessel. ;D Correct spelling: B-U-R-N-A-B-Y No, this is a real vessel. BC Ferries was paid $20,000 to rename the North Island Princess for one year when this song came out: SERIOUSLY?! *adds song to iTunes* Disco music FTW. ;D
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