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Post by ferryfanyvr on Aug 23, 2014 22:01:55 GMT -8
Here's a pic of the Queen of Vancouver's platforms for comparison. According to my notes on the back of the photo, this was taken on the 4pm sailing from Swartz Bay to Tsawwassen on Thurs Apr 20, 1978. 1978? Is that a typo? She was not lifted until 1981, three years later. Ooops...1989! Thanks for that.
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Post by Dane on Aug 24, 2014 15:53:12 GMT -8
I am fairly sure the platforms on the V class were out of service by the end of the 1990s. Has anyone seen them in use this century?
In those last few years I cannot even imagine how slow the Esquimalt would be on Route 2 with a 380 car load as described on the previous page. She was already needing over two hours to cross!
More generally, I suspect we will never see platforms again on the major routes. The idea that it is better to be on time (or close to) vice running late but really full doesn't seem likely to change as long as the routes have enough capacity to move all the traffic in the day - the days of needing to use every spot throughout the day are gone it seems. Route 3, where there hasn't been platforms in a couple decades, is the obvious exception to the run ontime but not necessarily totally full. They need every inch on those car decks in the summer!
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 24, 2014 18:34:12 GMT -8
I am fairly sure the platforms on the V class were out of service by the end of the 1990s. Has anyone seen them in use this century? In those last few years I cannot even imagine how slow the Esquimalt would be on Route 2 with a 380 car load as described on the previous page. She was already needing over two hours to cross! More generally, I suspect we will never see platforms again on the major routes. The idea that it is better to be on time (or close to) vice running late but really full doesn't seem likely to change as long as the routes have enough capacity to move all the traffic in the day - the days of needing to use every spot throughout the day are gone it seems. Route 3, where there hasn't been platforms in a couple decades, is the obvious exception to the run ontime but not necessarily totally full. They need every inch on those car decks in the summer! I am fairly sure that you are right about V-class platforms being out-of-service since about 1999. I do know that the Spirit platforms were used occasionally for at least a few years after the year 2000. Your last paragraph may turn out to be correct if BCFS continues to shed customers the way they have been doing since they were created. On the other hand, having reserve capacity available (in the form of platforms) could be really valuable when 'all hell breaks loose'. What I mean by that is a ship going out of service on a busy holiday weekend, for example. A few years back the SoVI had to be taken out of service on the eve of the Thanksgiving weekend due to a fire in the aux. engine room. Route 1 was down a vessel, and a Spirit at that. If each of the remaining three vessels had platform capacity for an additional 60 vehicles, the pain on route 1 would not have been as severe. Who, other then BCFS brass, really cares if the schedule goes out the window under such circumstances? The extra capacity offered by platforms could also reduce the need to run extra sailings (including MD sailings), but such would require a schedule modification, or a decision to run the boats faster (if possible) so as to permit more 'in-berth' time. They could certainly do this with the Coastal class boats.
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Post by hullnumbers on Nov 12, 2014 22:20:41 GMT -8
Here is my final results of another issue I found, I was looking at both the old Geocities BC Ferries, Westcoastferries and the Onedrive.live BC Ferries webpages and I found that there are a few differences written on each of the seven sisters. I been comparing each website and these are the result of my hard work of thinking.
Queen of Victoria Built: 1962 Platform addition: 1967 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1970 Slice horizontally and Lift: 1980 Bow and stern modified: 1984
Queen of Vancouver Built: 1962 Platform addition: 1967 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1972 Slice horizontally and Lift: 1980 Bow and stern modified: 1984
Queen of Saanich Built: 1963 Platform addition: 1967 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1972 Slice horizontally and Lift: 1981 Bow and stern modified: 1984
Queen of Esquimalt Built: 1963 Platform addition: 1967 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1969 Slice horizontally and Lift: 1981 Bow and stern modified: 1984
Queen of Nanaimo Built: 1964 Platform addition: 1968 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1974
Queen of New Westminster Built: 1964 Platform addition: 1968 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1973 Slice horizontally and Lift: 1991
Queen of Burnaby Built: 1965 Platform addition: 1968 Slice in half vertically and 84 ft (25 m) section addition: 1973
Tell me your thoughts on this, don't know if I'm right or not so I'm leaving it to this cause it seems to be right to me.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 12, 2014 22:49:03 GMT -8
The lifting of the four route 1 vessels was as follows: Vic & Van - winter-spring of 1981, both vessels in service by 15 June 1981 (see Mark Wilson article on p1 of this thread). Saan & Esq - fall-winter-spring of 81-82, in service for the summer of 1982.
The lifting operations were done one after the other at the graving dock in Esquimalt. I don't know which ship was done first in the second year.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 16:13:16 GMT -8
The Four lifted sisters, also known as the Victoria, Vancouver, Saanich and Esquimalt, were re-engined in the late 70's/early 80's as well. The Queens of Vancouver and Victoria had plaques dedicated to the re-engining. I can't remember if that's the case for the Saanich & Esquimalt. Anyways, a couple of photos of the plaques on the 'Vancouver, back in 2009. Built, Stretched, and Re-engined... Queen of Vancouver - ex-City of Vancouver - builders plaque by Howe Sound Ferries, on Flickr Queen of Vancouver - Repowered Plaque by Howe Sound Ferries, on Flickr Queen of Vancouver - Stretching Plaque by Howe Sound Ferries, on Flickr
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 13, 2014 19:51:54 GMT -8
The following items from the DOT collection should fill in some of the missing information in the Seven Sisters file... The Dolphin Newsletter article (BC Ferry Corp) October 1981 re Queens of Saanich & Esquimalt lift conversion [Mr. DOT collection] Harbour & Shipping article September 1981 re Queens of Saanich & Esquimalt lift Conversion, plus Victoria Times photo [Mr. DOT collection] The Motor Ship (UK publication) article 1981 re Burrard-Yarrows shipyards [Mr. DOT collection]
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Post by hullnumbers on Nov 14, 2014 13:08:35 GMT -8
Thank you Wett Coast for the information on the lifting. So pretty much two of the ferries were completed in the spring of 1981 and the last two were completed in the winter of 1982. This also confirms that the upper ramps at both Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen terminals were completed in 1981.
And with the list of the seven sister ferries modification dates correct (with Wett Coasts correction on the lifting) it is comfirmed that their history is now recorded.
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Post by hullnumbers on Nov 24, 2014 19:16:54 GMT -8
One other change on the sister ferries I want to know is when was the Burnaby (B) Class name first used? I suspect that it was first used after the first two (Vic and Van) were lifted.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 24, 2014 20:24:40 GMT -8
You know I am uncertain about this V-class / B-class thing. When I was younger I think it was most common to just refer to them as the 'Seven Sisters'. The 'B-class' designation for the route 2 sisters (Burn, Nan & NWM) I think may have been in use even before the lifting of route 1 sisters. I (so far) have not found any documentation that uses the terms 'V-Class' or 'B-class' from back in that time period.
I am fairly certain, however, that the big double-enders introduced in 1976 were dubbed the 'C-class' pretty much right from day 1, and the Alberni was considered to be a 'C' in spite of her being significantly different than her 'sisters'.
If I find any documentation that helps clear this up I will let you know.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Nov 24, 2014 23:55:20 GMT -8
You know I am uncertain about this V-class / B-class thing. When I was younger I think it was most common to just refer to them as the 'Seven Sisters'. The 'B-class' designation for the route 2 sisters (Burn, Nan & NWM) I think may have been in use even before the lifting of route 1 sisters. I (so far) have not found any documentation that uses the terms 'V-Class' or 'B-class' from back in that time period. I am fairly certain, however, that the big double-enders introduced in 1976 were dubbed the 'C-class' pretty much right from day 1, and the Alberni was considered to be a 'C' in spite of her being significantly different than her 'sisters'. If I find any documentation that helps clear this up I will let you know. I don't recall any classification either. This mania to categorize everything is a more modern thing... I'm not sure BC Ferries in the 1960s really had 'file' names for their vessels.
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Post by chinook2 on Mar 12, 2015 9:33:24 GMT -8
Officially the seven were the Victoria class, as the lengthenings were done, unofficially but almost universally called the stretch ferries through the 70s. Term stretch class was used in the 80s, and one planning doc I saw c.1990 called them the N class. The B Class designation dates from around 1991, when the New West was lifted
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Post by princessofvanfan on Mar 14, 2015 20:06:40 GMT -8
:'(Did our final trip on the Burnaby last August, and we'll do the Nanny this year or next.
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Jun 2, 2016 10:11:35 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Jun 2, 2016 13:06:33 GMT -8
This looks to be Route 1 (SGI view seen through the windows). The vessel would be one of the Victoria four of the Seven Sisters class. The interior of the forward lounge on the 'Promenade Deck' is as it was in the beginning. So the photo dates from between 1962 (when the "City" sisters entered service) & 1972 (when the last vessels were stretched, & the interiors were carpeted). This is not the Sidney, or her sister, and not likely one of the 'B' sisters as they operated almost exclusively on Route 2. As to which of the Victoria sisters this is, I can not say. But it is one of them; either the Victoria, Vancouver, Saanich or Esquimalt.
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grk
Chief Steward
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Post by grk on Sept 6, 2016 11:56:47 GMT -8
Someone with knowledge of the propulsion on these ferries can perhaps share their knowledge. I know the Saanich and Esquimalt had different engines than the rest. Their sound was very unique, not unlike railway locomotives, and they could be heard from a distance away. I have heard that the Victoria and Vancouver had identical engines. So my question is; which of the engine types were fitted on the 7 sisters and on Sidney and Tswwassen? Fairbanks-Morse, Paxmans, Mierlese? Just curious and it might settle an argument from the coffee shop! Thank.
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 6, 2016 12:54:12 GMT -8
Someone with knowledge of the propulsion on these ferries can perhaps share their knowledge. I know the Saanich and Esquimalt had different engines than the rest. Their sound was very unique, not unlike railway locomotives, and they could be heard from a distance away. I have heard that the Victoria and Vancouver had identical engines. So my question is; which of the engine types were fitted on the 7 sisters and on Sidney and Tswwassen? Fairbanks-Morse, Paxmans, Mierlese? Just curious and it might settle an argument from the coffee shop! Thank. The Sidney and Tsawwassen had Mirrlees their whole life. The Victoria and Vancouver had Paxman engines to start with until the late 70's, at which time they were replaced by MaK engines. They were pretty well the same as what the C-Class have if I'm not mistaken. Saanich and Esquimalt had Fairbanks-Morse Engines up until they were lifted? At which time they also then received the MaK engines. Burnaby, Nanaimo, and New West all have/had the Mirrlees Engines, but the New West traded hers in for Wartsilla engines when she was lifted in 1990. Model numbers etc, are all beyond me. Although I could probably find out the Burnaby/Nanaimo's tonight...
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grk
Chief Steward
Posts: 227
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Post by grk on Sept 6, 2016 18:51:02 GMT -8
Wow!! Quick response and obviously from someone who really knows the answer. Greatly appreciated, thank you.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 8, 2016 11:46:57 GMT -8
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Post by Starsteward on Nov 8, 2016 11:55:29 GMT -8
Any guesses as to which of the two sisters is blowing smoke? I have an idea but will withhold my (probably wrong guess) until other members have a crack at it.
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Post by hullnumbers on Dec 18, 2017 21:10:32 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 19, 2017 19:49:06 GMT -8
Those of us who were around back at the time the Seven Sisters were stretched do know that there was more to the operations than just the 'stretching'. A part of that 'more' was the expansion of the cafeterias to full ship width. They say that BC Ferries was some what blind-sided by the passenger demand for food services in the early days of the organization. The ship stretching brought not only the much enlarged & reconfigured cafeterias, but the table service dining rooms on the Sundeck (just above the cafeterias). Attachments:
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Post by hullnumbers on Dec 20, 2017 16:02:09 GMT -8
Would it be possible that (and this is a guess) when BC Ferries added the extended cafeteria to the Sidney Class, they used the same cafeteria concept for the construction of the Victoria Class in 1962? Cause I somehow see that outline on the Queen of Burnaby's deck plans that I linked to up above. The wall between the galley and storage room on the port side in the back promenade deck matches, this includes the starboard side of the galley which the wall is completely gone. The walls and windows also would have been aligned in the same location as the fan room wall.
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Post by nannyman on Nov 30, 2018 12:27:06 GMT -8
Seeing if anyone could shed some light on what the two rectangle sections were used for that were welded over on the bow area of the car deck on some of the 7 Sisters For example - They were present in the drawings from 1973 for the Queen of Nanaimo.
Thanks! -Ryan
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 30, 2018 20:06:50 GMT -8
Seeing if anyone could shed some light on what the two rectangle sections were used for that were welded over on the bow area of the car deck on some of the 7 Sisters For example - They were present in the drawings from 1973 for the Queen of Nanaimo.
Thanks! -Ryan
They look to be car deck openings that were once common on the nine Spaulding single-enders, and used to enhance natural ventilation on the car decks. In later years some/all of these were plated in as they must of added forced air ventilation making these openings unnecessary. That said I have yet to find in my photo collection a picture of these 'openings' opened. There are other openings nearby but at a higher level on the Nanaimo that were still present at the time of her retirement. I can confirm that these plated in 'openings' were present in the other B class vessels as far back as the 1970's, but not on any of the V class. hmmm?
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