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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 1, 2018 21:20:39 GMT -8
Three questions: 1. When will Washington State Legislature authorize funding for the next phrase of Olympic Class? 2. Do you see next phrase vessels being modernization version of Olympic Class vessels? 3. When WSF replaces the MV Elwha will her replacement vessel be SOLAS certificated for Sidney? If not will an exist vessel be upgraded to have SOLAS certificated?
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 2, 2018 7:37:19 GMT -8
Three questions: 1. When will Washington State Legislature authorize funding for the next phrase of Olympic Class? 2. Do you see next phrase vessels being modernization version of Olympic Class vessels? 3. When WSF replaces the MV Elwha will her replacement vessel be SOLAS certificated for Sidney? If not will an exist vessel be upgraded to have SOLAS certificated? I'm going to refer you to this thread where there has been some discussion about the long range draft plan: ferriesbc.proboards.com/thread/9474/long-range-plan-2018-versionAs part of that long range plan, I believe they are looking at building 5 more Olympic Class vessels, two of which will be SOLAS certified. They also want all new vessels going forward to have hybrid propulsion systems. At this point, nothing has been funded, so as usual, time will tell what actually gets executed.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jun 15, 2019 18:12:54 GMT -8
Once Washington State Ferries get more Olympic Class, will sundeck never be opened? I am wondering because they five Olympic Class and it seems like state lack foresight with crew because sundeck may be closed this summer.
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Post by Barnacle on Jun 16, 2019 10:14:18 GMT -8
Once Washington State Ferries get more Olympic Class, will sundeck never be opened? I am wondering because they five Olympic Class and it seems like state lack foresight with crew because sundeck may be closed this summer. There are currently four Olympic class, and the sundeck is open when they work Bremerton because the reduced manning levels that close the sun deck also leave the Bremerton run short on passenger capacity.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jul 10, 2019 20:59:30 GMT -8
This way off in future for this question. When the current four Olympic Class are having mid-life refit, will they be convert to hybrid electric?
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Ignacio
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 37
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Post by Ignacio on Jul 22, 2019 11:02:21 GMT -8
This way off in future for this question. When the current four Olympic Class are having mid-life refit, will they be convert to hybrid electric? Trying to predict 20-25 years in advance from a market that's less than a decade old? Good luck with that! Could be all-electric depending on how battery technology goes, could be hybrid, could still be diesel, could be fuel cells. I think you'll see more of a specific possbility AFTER they have either a test ferry or two having gone that way. I'd also look first to bus fleets as more an early indicator of the direction. Some are hybrid, few have all-electrics, but many are still just increasingly cleaned-up diesel. I think alternatives to conventional fossil fuel will remain incremental and slower than people expect...because of technology but also supply chain in infrastructure. Don't minimize what it would cost to build the giant plug a ferry would need at the dock..and the infrastructure down the line.
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Post by Barnacle on Aug 4, 2019 11:15:30 GMT -8
This way off in future for this question. When the current four Olympic Class are having mid-life refit, will they be convert to hybrid electric? I can't recall anything about it in the 20-year plan. I suspect that would require major reconfiguring in the below-deck spaces, so I'd classify it as 'unlikely.' Still, I've been wrong before.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 4, 2019 20:18:57 GMT -8
This way off in future for this question. When the current four Olympic Class are having mid-life refit, will they be convert to hybrid electric? I can't recall anything about it in the 20-year plan. I suspect that would require major reconfiguring in the below-deck spaces, so I'd classify it as 'unlikely.' Still, I've been wrong before. Wouldn’t be like converting the Jumbo Mark II?
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Post by lavalamp on Aug 5, 2019 14:12:10 GMT -8
I can't recall anything about it in the 20-year plan. I suspect that would require major reconfiguring in the below-deck spaces, so I'd classify it as 'unlikely.' Still, I've been wrong before. Wouldn’t be like converting the Jumbo Mark II? The JMIIs are diesel-electric propulsion, so they're halfway to a hybrid already. The Olympics don't have electric drive motors, so a retrofit would involve extensive work as Barnacle notes.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 5, 2019 15:53:04 GMT -8
Wouldn’t be like converting the Jumbo Mark II? The JMIIs are diesel-electric propulsion, so they're halfway to a hybrid already. The Olympics don't have electric drive motors, so a retrofit would involve extensive work as Barnacle notes. Would be easier to convert them to electric boats right away?
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Post by Kahloke on Aug 6, 2019 5:43:50 GMT -8
The JMIIs are diesel-electric propulsion, so they're halfway to a hybrid already. The Olympics don't have electric drive motors, so a retrofit would involve extensive work as Barnacle notes. Would be easier to convert them to electric boats right away? Anything is possible, of course, but I would think retrofitting the Flight 1 Olympics will be way at the bottom of WSF's priority list.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 6, 2019 13:04:53 GMT -8
Would be easier to convert them to electric boats right away? Anything is possible, of course, but I would think retrofitting the Flight 1 Olympics will be way at the bottom of WSF's priority list. But when they get mid-life refits conversation could be easily budget for and done.
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Post by lavalamp on Aug 7, 2019 15:22:27 GMT -8
Anything is possible, of course, but I would think retrofitting the Flight 1 Olympics will be way at the bottom of WSF's priority list. But when they get mid-life refits conversation could be easily budget for and done. Mid-life refits for the Flight 1 Olympics are so far out, and the fleet has so many other pressing needs, that I don't think this is on anyone's radar.
I wouldn't characterize such a refit as "easy" either; WSF doesn't have a great track record with major changes to propulsion systems (Elwha, Hyak hybrid proposal, etc.), and the state legislature is so tight with money that it would require years of study and lobbying to accomplish. We're talking about a proposal that would likely cost a significant fraction of the cost of a new ferry, leading to a questionable cost-benefit calculation.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 7, 2019 20:47:37 GMT -8
But when they get mid-life refits conversation could be easily budget for and done. Mid-life refits for the Flight 1 Olympics are so far out, and the fleet has so many other pressing needs, that I don't think this is on anyone's radar.
I wouldn't characterize such a refit as "easy" either; WSF doesn't have a great track record with major changes to propulsion systems (Elwha, Hyak hybrid proposal, etc.), and the state legislature is so tight with money that it would require years of study and lobbying to accomplish. We're talking about a proposal that would likely cost a significant fraction of the cost of a new ferry, leading to a questionable cost-benefit calculation.
But WSF is going head with converting the Jumbo Mark II and plans to convert Kwa-di Tabil vessels into Hybrid vessels so logically these four vessel could be convert into hybrid.
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Post by lavalamp on Aug 8, 2019 11:31:24 GMT -8
Mid-life refits for the Flight 1 Olympics are so far out, and the fleet has so many other pressing needs, that I don't think this is on anyone's radar.
I wouldn't characterize such a refit as "easy" either; WSF doesn't have a great track record with major changes to propulsion systems (Elwha, Hyak hybrid proposal, etc.), and the state legislature is so tight with money that it would require years of study and lobbying to accomplish. We're talking about a proposal that would likely cost a significant fraction of the cost of a new ferry, leading to a questionable cost-benefit calculation.
But WSF is going head with converting the Jumbo Mark II and plans to convert Kwa-di Tabil vessels into Hybrid vessels so logically these four vessel could be convert into hybrid. Yes, because (as I said before) the JMIIs are more easily convertible as they are diesel-electric, and they are at a point where major refit work is needed to ensure they meet their projected lifespan. They are all 20 years old after all.
Per the Long Range Plan, the KdTs aren't slated for conversion to hybrid until 2031-2033 when they will be 20 years old. The KdTs also have a propulsion system that isn't very efficient and doesn't have the redundancy that other vessels have, making them obvious if expensive targets for refit.
None of this applies to the Olympics; they are relatively efficient, they have redundancy, they are not maintenance hogs. Could WSF do it? Sure; nothing is impossible if you throw enough money and effort at it. But its so far down the list of things WSF needs to worry about that it isn't worth it at this point. Should WSF revisit this in 10-15 years? Absolutely. But for now the focus is elsewhere (rightly IMO) on things that need attention yesterday, and not on making marginal improvements to the newest vessels in the fleet.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Aug 9, 2019 17:39:20 GMT -8
lavalamp , BC Ferries convert the Spirit Class to dual fuel with LNG which they where not able to use before there mid-life refit. So I don’t see why WSF couldn’t do convert the first wave of Olympic Class. For your last point, WSF has only been operating the Tokitae which is young for ferry and 20 years the emissions standards could be way stricter. Also electric ferries may be able to do the job as easy or better than diesel ferries which could help reduce cost for WSF.
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Post by Barnacle on Aug 12, 2019 11:18:04 GMT -8
lavalamp , BC Ferries convert the Spirit Class to dual fuel with LNG which they where not able to use before there mid-life refit. So I don’t see why WSF couldn’t do convert the first wave of Olympic Class. For your last point, WSF has only been operating the Tokitae which is young for ferry and 20 years the emissions standards could be way stricter. Also electric ferries may be able to do the job as easy or better than diesel ferries which could help reduce cost for WSF. Don't forget the Samish, Chimacum and Suquamish. The emissions standards were changed before the keel was laid for the Suquamish so her propulsion system is different (please don't ask for specifics as I don't have them; all I know is that the system's different as a result of changing regulations). The other three were at least under construction prior to the changes, so they were grandfathered. The mid-life upgrades for the Flight I Olympics are probably about 2 decades away, which puts them--at best--at the far end of the 20-year plan, if not off the back end of it. You point out that these boats could "logically" be converted to hybrid. I beg to differ; just because it's possible doesn't make it feasible--or logical. It's a much shorter leap to hybridize the JMk2s since they're already electric-motor boats. I'm not sure if the return on investment would actually pencil out on the KdT's in terms of sheer economics; we'd have to be considering the environmental impacts there as well. LNG conversion is something of a dead horse down here, because it doesn't reduce the reliance on petroleum products and the infrastructure isn't there to support it. Hybrid-electric is more promising and doesn't require special infrastructure to fuel, but the operational history data over the long term hasn't been established yet. WSF may end up holding on to a few diesel boats for the longer runs. We simply don't know yet. As I've said before, I don't know of any plans to convert the Olympic Mark I's. I'd put it down as highly unlikely, and it's kind of pointless to speculate.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Sept 11, 2019 18:20:59 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 29, 2019 17:03:49 GMT -8
If the State of Washington decides to retire the Elwha early hopeful this leads to first hybrids Olympic Class being allowed to sail the international route with SOLAS.
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legoferrydude
Oiler (New Member)
What is up, Elliot Legos, Ferries, And MO! here!
Posts: 15
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Post by legoferrydude on Apr 17, 2020 11:54:58 GMT -8
So I was looking through this board today, and I noticed something VERY... "off" with the Vigor Industrial YouTube channel. I don't know if any of you saw it, but my guess is they might've gotten hacked, or an employee was just goofing around with their channel. I would post a picture, but A) don't really know how and/or want to, and B) I might get kicked if I do. 😳
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Post by withtheferries on Apr 1, 2021 22:15:35 GMT -8
How much freeboard does the olympic class have?? (out of context, i know :/)
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Post by Kahloke on Oct 29, 2021 6:35:16 GMT -8
For those who might be interested, there are 6 names under consideration for the next new ferry, as per the FROG (Ferry Riders Opinion Group) survey I just received:
1. Enie Marie (named for the granddaughter of Chief Sealth) 2. Muckleshoot 3. Snoqualmie 4. Stehekin 5. Stillaguamish 6. Wishkah
I was really hoping there would be fewer "S" names this time around. We've had a lot of those lately.
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Post by EGfleet on Oct 30, 2021 9:22:27 GMT -8
For those who might be interested, there are 6 names under consideration for the next new ferry, as per the FROG (Ferry Riders Opinion Group) survey I just received: 1. Enie Marie (named for the granddaughter of Chief Sealth) 2. Muckleshoot 3. Snoqualmie 4. Stehekin 5. Stillaguamish 6. Wishkah I was really hoping there would be fewer "S" names this time around. We've had a lot of those lately. Just goes to show "institutional memory" is only as long as the latest person in charge. They said after the back to back Salish/Samish/Suquamish to avoid "S" names, but that was a few division heads ago, so no one recalls that. In case they need a refresher... 'Avoid S names': New state ferry named Chimacum
by Associated Press Thursday, November 20th 2014 BREMERTON, Wash. (AP) - Chimacum was chosen as the name for the newest Washington state ferry because workers and the state Transportation Commission wanted to avoid any possible confusion that would arise from having another ferry that begins with S. The commission selected the name at its meeting Wednesday in Lakewood. Construction on the $123 million ferry begins this fall at the Vigor Industrial shipyard in Seattle, the Kitsap Sun reported. Delivery is expected in 2017, and it's projected to go on the Bremerton-Seattle route. Chimacum is a tribal name, following the tradition for most state ferries. It will be the third new 144-car ferry after the Samish and Tokitae. The fleet also has the 64-car ferry Salish. With the names Sammamish, Suquamish, Chimacum and Cowlitz under consideration, ferry employees said the state has enough S boats. "The most important thing they told us was they wanted to avoid S names," director Lynne Griffith told the commission.
Although Cowlitz had some support, the commission went for Chimacum. "We were particularly concerned about Sammamish," Griffith said later. "That would've been real confusing with the Samish. There were a lot of people supportive of Chimacum. It's a fun name to say." There's a chance another name will be needed in the not-too-distant future. The ferry system has submitted a request to fund a fourth 144-car vessel, Griffith said. **** And it ended up Suquamish, so, so much for that.
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Post by Kahloke on Nov 1, 2021 10:53:36 GMT -8
Just goes to show "institutional memory" is only as long as the latest person in charge. They said after the back to back Salish/Samish/Suquamish to avoid "S" names, but that was a few division heads ago, so no one recalls that. There are quite a few Washington names that don't begin with "S" that would make good ferry names. Some that come to my mind: Chehalis Entiat (I would love to see this one adorn a ferry sometime) Hoquiam Ilwaco Okanogan Tenino Tonasket I hope Wishkah isn't picked for the next ferry name. I just looked it up and it's a Chehalis tribal term that means "stinking water". Do we really want a "stinking water" ferry? I'd much rather have Chehalis, which means "bubbling water" in reference to some rapids on the river, I'm guessing. I would say "bubbling water" beats "stinking water" any day
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Post by PeninsulaExplorer on Dec 14, 2021 16:40:19 GMT -8
Sounds like the new hybrid Olympic Class is going to be named Wishkah.
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