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Post by chinook2 on Feb 4, 2009 0:58:14 GMT -8
As recent events have proven, nothing is certain, so it is possible the Van might see a little bit more use after NW gets back, but if relieving the SoBC is her last gig, kind of cool to have her finish the way she started, as primary boat, route 1, Tsawwassen side. Kind of like the Saanich beginning and finishing as the secondary vessel out of SWB.Almost the same. The Saanich was one of two primary vessels home porting at SB in 1963; 4 vessel baseline service began in 1962 when the Van and Vic joined the fleet Correct me anyone, but I don't recall service being reduced to 2 or 3 ships at any time prior to the V-class conversions in the early 1980s. Route 2 went down to 2 ship operation following the introduction of the Cow and Coq (after the doubling of fares in 1977) in slack times, but Route 1 needed the capacity of four "Victoria" or "Stretch" class boats plus the Alberni to handle traffic.
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Post by chinook2 on Feb 3, 2009 10:22:16 GMT -8
Hard to second guess the exact sequence of the thought process behind these moves, but..
The Sunday switch was IMHO logistics, done to relieve congestion in the berths at SB. Before the NW was diagnosed for her engine issues.
When the NW was tagged for repairs, decision was made to fix the prop issues on the Van. If one uses the RBI as a rough timeline, this decision was made over the weekend.
As events continue to unfold, the probability of the Van being called upon in March or April increases, so the investment in fixing her issues has apparently been justified. That, and maintaining three boat service friday and sunday while S0BC is in refit and the NW is having her head examined:)
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Post by chinook2 on Feb 2, 2009 8:07:50 GMT -8
Saturday the SoVI was layed up bow in on Berth 3--first time I've seen a Spook in that Berth, an odd site....Anyone know where the Van is?? Tsawwassen or?? Getting prop work?
As recent events have proven, nothing is certain, so it is possible the Van might see a little bit more use after NW gets back, but if relieving the SoBC is her last gig, kind of cool to have her finish the way she started, as primary boat, route 1, Tsawwassen side.
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Post by chinook2 on Feb 2, 2009 7:59:55 GMT -8
And a little tweaking on the NW, just to make it like, run.........i thought 1999 was a pathetic year for BCF, with both Cowichan and Alberni running single ended for ages; compared to the last few months, looks more like the good old days.
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Post by chinook2 on Feb 1, 2009 13:46:29 GMT -8
It's true! The Van is scheduled to replace SoBC commencing Feb 5, in the meantime, CC remains the first boat at SB until that day. Wonder why the delay in deploying the SoVI?
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 28, 2009 1:41:41 GMT -8
If this is true, it sucks. I made time to sail the last round trip on Sunday, can't do the same on Friday due to work.
On the logistics side, it makes sense. The same crew that delivers the SoVI tows away the Van, stores has ample time to stock the SoVI, and the only operational anomaly on Sunday is a/. the SoVI ties up in Berth 3 and loads in 1, or 2/. SoBC lands in 2 for 2 sailings.
Having grown up on, and with, the V's, either day will be a hard goodbye.
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 27, 2009 16:54:23 GMT -8
so if the QoVan was in Berth 5, the SoBC's 3pm departure used Berth 3 then what berth did the QoA use for her 3:15pm departure to Duke Point? What I can't figure out is why, when the Van returned to Swartz bay, she didn't just back into berth 3 in the first place, since she changed berths afterward while the Celebration had to wait out in the bay. She could have even slid into berth 1 to unload and waited for the Celebration to take off again. Apparently, they had to debrief the crew regarding the fire anyway. When berth 2 was being rebuilt they did a similar switch of docks if the Saanich was tying up before the SoVI on a given day. Offload Berth 1, tie up in 3. Something to do with lack of Passenger ramps that fit or some such. If Saanich was last boat in then and only then did it offload in 3. Sidenote: This month with SoVI in refit and the Van laying up in three, when the CC has been arriving at 6:30 in 2, Skeena's been landing in 4 and the Cumbie has been using 1!
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 26, 2009 17:56:12 GMT -8
I would like to see the old airchime horns restored and installed on the SoBC and SoVI, thus keeping the trademark sound alive--good for ferry nuts, good for marketing.
Also, I noted the CC has a 3 tone horn tuned to the same chord as the 1960s airchimes. Do CR and CI have the same horns??
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 10, 2009 4:26:55 GMT -8
Cause they needed her till 2014/5?
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 9, 2009 9:21:45 GMT -8
The SoVI's away in drydock somewhere, The Vancouver's safely tied up in Berth 3, Skeena's using 2, and all is well at Swartz Bay.
I am thinking when SoVI ties up at SB prior to going back into service that she'll be in Berth 2, and all three in service ships will use 1. The Vancouver will move over to three after unloading at the end of her day. When Berth 2 was being renovated Saanich only unloaded in Berth 3 if she was finishing a 10pm and SoVI was already tied up. If her day ended before SoVI, they'd unload in Berth 1.
On a related note, does any one know if the Vancouver has any other work before she retires?? She's got two round trips on Sun. Feb 1, and if it's her last trips was thinking of taking the day off and making both of them.
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 9, 2009 8:19:03 GMT -8
This is BCF's slowest season of the year. It is not common for the ships to sail with more than a 70% load at this time of year, even at some of the busiest times. Also, the published figures for the SOBC includes the platforms, which are not used at all anymore. So you can subtract 60 cars from the published figures right there. I don't think the capacity will be missed. Business as usual--the Vancouver has covered SoBC's refit since she joined the fleet, and the New West has about the same capacity. This time of year the lower capacity mainly impacts the first and second sailing in the am on weekdays.
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 4, 2009 5:13:45 GMT -8
If there are 35 people on the bus, and you are standing, it's a Nova.
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 3, 2009 0:52:33 GMT -8
No worries, one of the great things about being here is having several generations of ferry geeks together--we all have something to share, and to learn.
For instance, I knew nothing of either ships' relief work on the Albion run--last time I even travelled that route the T'Lagunna was still the main ship.
Two things stand out in my memories of the Vesuvius. One, that her minimal passenger amenities didn't really matter, since I was always in awe of her beautiful brass fittings. The other is that she and the Salty were the most homegrown vessels in the fleet, since they both were powered by Vivians, made in Richmond, BC. Along with British built Mirlees plants, and the Mill Bay's famous Gardiner, IMHO the best horsepower ever to turn a screw in our fleet.
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 2, 2009 17:39:04 GMT -8
The Salty definitely didn't stay on that run for too long--I suspect that prior to the addition of the Highways vessels to the fleet, they were swapping the two vessels on an annual basis to spread the service hours more equally. Post 1985, with a surplus of small vessels from the Highways merger, the Vesuvius was definitely the regular boat on rte. 6--it was always the ship in service when I rode the route in the late 80s and early 90s. The Salty was a true spare at this point--and as BCFC's own annual report from 1990-91 states, it was Salty with Nicola on the Horseshoe-Darrell Bay run
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Post by chinook2 on Jan 2, 2009 3:27:01 GMT -8
Seems to be a little disconnect on ship histories here.....
The Salty was the main ship on route 4 from 1961-1971, when Bowen Queen took over the run. Through remainder of the 1970s she was supplementary on Swartz Bay-Gulf Islands services in summer, and did various relief jobs in winter. From 1981-1985, BCFC had the use of Quinitsa for much of the year, and, as well as doing the second boat duties on rte.5, was often running to Fulford in the winter, freeing the Bowen to relieve PR class vessels. It would have been the Saltspring Queen running to Denman in 1986, since Vesuvius Queen was doing rte.6 at the time.
Between 1986-1992 the Salty was largely idle--route 5 had a year round 2nd boat by this time, but in the late 1980s it was Tenaka in summer, Nicola in winter. In the early 90s Tachek Year round. There was a surplus of minor vessels through these years, so the SQ's principal role was relieving Vesuvius. And filling in on Albion as required.
In late 1990 a major slide blocked the Squamish (Squamish word meaning Sea to Sky) Highway for an extended period. Along with Nicola, Saltspring Queen provided emergency ferry service between Horseshoe Bay and Darrell Bay (it has been stated that Vesuvius Queen performed these duties in other threads, but it was the Salty reference: BCFC annual report 1990-91).
Early in 1992, taking the SeaLink from Victoria to Van, spotted the Saltspring Queen on the way to Saturna, doing relief for MV Tachek.
Vesuvius Queen on the other hand, remained on the Crofton route till about 1993, when the HSQ took the route over. From then till her retirement in 1998 her main role at BCFC was to relieve the Howe Sound Queen; the Albion work was a bonus.........
Rode the Vesuvius once in 1992--lovely brasswork on her,,.amazing that her Vivians are still doing their thing......
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Post by chinook2 on Dec 14, 2008 15:44:56 GMT -8
Revised list
1/.Langdale Queen (1903) 2/.Vesuvius Queen (1950) 3/. Sunshine Coast Queen (1951) 4/. Princess of Vancouver (1955) 5/. Mill Bay (1956)
plus (not sure if it counts): T'Lagunna (1931)
and if some are counting SS San Mateo...
Seven Seas Seafood Restaurant ex North Vancvouver No. 5 (1941)
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Post by chinook2 on Dec 7, 2008 0:38:52 GMT -8
re transit services via bc transit: Full serve at Brentwood Bay (ok it's a block away) Mill Bay: Bc Transit meets two sailings daily. Saltspring terminals: service to all three
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Post by chinook2 on Dec 3, 2008 0:59:24 GMT -8
The Cow, Coq, and Alberni all raised concerns about wake and wash when they entered service in 1976. Horseshoe Bay marina owners on the first two, Piers Island and Active Pass landowners on the Alberni. Solutions included structures to buffer the wake in Horseshoe bay (and very cautious approaches) and in the Alberni's case, routing around the channel between Piers and Pym Islands.
Of all the post Victoria class ships, the Oak Bay and Surrey probably had the quietest transition into service. They did their year on route 1, moved on to routes 2 and 3, and caused very little news. Biggest story on these two at the time was when the Socred government of the time decided to sell the ships(and the Quinsam) and lease them back over 20 years.
I am sold, and not surprised, on the route 2 redeployment. Considering the vibraation issues are coming from one terminal, I am betting that it is the geology of Departure Bay and surrounding area is making whatever noise and/or cavitation issues worse. Sort of like what happens in earthquakes. If the ground below is gravel or sand, it tends to be much more affected by low frequency vibrations. One would think that these noisy boats would be driving the neighbours mental in expensive Horseshoe Bay, or Swartz Bay, but apparently they are not. So getting the CR off of route 2 allows the C's to be fully utilized, and solves the plaster cracking issue.
Not so happy about the prospect of the QofNW not being on route 1.....was looking forward to some summer trips on her..
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Post by chinook2 on Nov 17, 2008 0:04:24 GMT -8
The portrait question is easier to answer--the original portrait on the Van was a larger and rather unforgettable shot of the Queen from the 1960s with an incredibly stilted smile. This picture stayed with the vessel until the removal program. This current portrait would be the hasty replacement, and as we know, interior repaints for the two Vs are not a huge priority at this point.
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Post by chinook2 on Oct 8, 2008 0:11:43 GMT -8
Oops! Route 5 of course. Tsawwassen was there for summers of 87 and 88 for sure, possibly 89.
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Post by chinook2 on Oct 5, 2008 14:59:26 GMT -8
Back to minor vessel strait crossings: Draft, bow configuration, and hull style would determine the seaworthiness of an open decked minor vessel. Remember, Tenaka was purpose built for rte. 17. On the other hand, the Mill Bay, basically a floating soap dish with a prop and rudder, is only ticketed to operate in the calm waters of Saanich Inlet. Operating the Bowen across the strait in summer is as much of a stretch as regulations allow for.
The Wack should work fine on rte. 9, but IMHO should be scheduled so Tachek can supplement on peak days.
Here's a less efficient alternative.......QofNW relieves the Nanny, bypasses Sturdies Bay, and Galiano traffic transfers to/from the Cumbie or Mayne to complete thier trips.
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Post by chinook2 on Oct 5, 2008 11:35:02 GMT -8
Too many years since I rode the Tsawwassen, but I recall there was a play area in the sundeck lounge back in 1992 when I last rode her.
Never did get up to visit the Sidney in her latter career up north, but it is interesting that when the elevators and related accessibility work was done on the two ships in the 1980s, that the newsstand was moved on one, and trashed on the other. My theory is that at the time, before Capilano, Cumbie, and the Wack came along, BCF assumed the Tsawwassen would spend the rest of its summers on rte. 6, which had never had newstand service.
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Post by chinook2 on Oct 3, 2008 16:25:02 GMT -8
Sidney and Tsawwassen never had the enclosed space on the upper deck that was added on the Victoria class vessels during stretching. The upper lounge on Tsawwassen was the original restaurant, it become the coffee shop in 1961 when the restaurant structure was added to the aft main deck. The roof of the restaurant became open deck seating, which was largely unchanged at retirement. And it is true that the coffee shop was tossed in favor of the upper lounge in the late 1970s.
The pre stretch Victoria Class ships had a near identical restaurant to the Sidney class, but the coffee shop was hole in the wall counter service, the window was in the aft wall of the aft lounge on the main deck. Sandwiches, donuts, and they made an awesome milkshake the real kind on one of those milkshake makers. This area became overload seating for the new caf during the conversion. The upstairs dining room was an upscale version of the more cafe style restaurant. And the former open sun deck was of course replaced by the semi enclosed solariums in the new mid section. The Sidney class cafs were based on the Victoria style plan, but were built within the existing restaurant space, not extended out to the waterline as on the newer ships.
Sidney and Tsawwassen also had newsstands, smaller than the Vics, but the same counter service, sold magazines, film, candy and souveniers. They were located where the handicapped washrooms were later installed in a corner of the mid ship stairwell area. That modification was probably made when elevators were installed in the 1980s. The newsstands on the Vics were originally in the space on the outboard side of the port side entry passage to the forward lounge.
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Post by chinook2 on Sept 30, 2008 14:49:43 GMT -8
The Vs have a service speed of around 18 knots, and the Spirits typically do about he same. The Spirits have a little bit more "reserve power" to make up time if necessary, but they rarely get above 19 knots. On the other side, the Cs, including the Alberni, can work up to 21 or 22 knots. The higher speed is necessary to keep the schedule on route 30. The New West was re-engined in the early 90's because the Vs and Bs were not able to keep up. Minor point: Route 30 didn't exist when the C's were built. They were in fact designed to maintain an hourly schedule on route two. Extra speed, double ended, no Hydraulic ramped platform decks. The "Sidney" and "Victoria" or "Stretch" class vessels previously used made the crossing on route 2 in 1 hr. 50; sailings were scheduled 1 hr 15 or 1 hr 20 minutes apart. On route 1 the V's can use the more direct approach to Swartz Bay between Piers and that other island which helps them keep up.
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Post by chinook2 on Sept 28, 2008 10:00:52 GMT -8
At least the Tsawwassen got a cake and a hand shake, and that she worked hard right up to retirement--no long months and years spent tied up at Deas waiting for an emergency or relief gig, like the Salty, Vesuvius, Nicola, Savioe, Vicky, etc.
A great old trouper, and the Queen of Versatility. Life will never be as easy for the refit schedulers at BCFS without her.
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