Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 16, 2024 17:06:46 GMT -8
QPR tenders - Daily Colonist - 4 December 1963. That other ferry for the Gulf Islands would have been the ?
No idea of what da Preem was on about. Looking back on BCFS history, the astuteness of Mr. Bennet was very significant in his visionary approach to building a very resourceful industry. Imagine....building vessels in OUR own back yard, as it were, relying instead on yards thousands of miles away delivering vessels of questionable quality. The two 'Spirit' class vessels, built on the banks of the Fraser river have turned out quite nicely too..eh? "When will we ever learn... when....? Hmmh. I'm not sure I'd give Bennett that much credit. One could argue that there were some decisions made with our coastal ferries that lacked foresight. Queen of The Islands only lasted four years on route nine before she had to be replaced by Sechelt Queen. Comox Queen was too small for Comox almost from the start. Was sit down restaurant service on the major vessels really practical? And shouldn't they have been built bigger, given the relatively short time before they had to be expanded, with platform decks and/or stretching? Still, when you look back on it, it's astonishing that route one was done in, what, less than two years from concept to operation? A two mile causeway, two vessels, two new docks... can you imagine how long that would take today? Capital projects are much more straightforward when environmental concerns and first nations rights aren't even part of the discussion. Interesting to see that there was a plan for a B/V class vessel for the Gulf Islands. Didn't happen, nor did the second northern vessel. Jim wonders about the 'second' Gulf Island vessel mentioned in the article... wouldn't that have been the Mayne Queen?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 15, 2024 17:58:00 GMT -8
I wonder how this is going to be accomplished. I know there are women who are uncomfortable being in washrooms along with men. Most BC Ferries vessels don't have enough washrooms that there could be all gender facilities along with exclusively female facilities. On smaller vessels where only one person can be in a washroom at a time, it could work. This will be tricky. It only single user washrooms only. Are you sure about that? If that's the case, it's less problematic. There are the small washrooms on the Coastals, near the coffee bar end.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 15, 2024 11:44:40 GMT -8
I wonder how this is going to be accomplished. I know there are women who are uncomfortable being in washrooms along with men. Most BC Ferries vessels don't have enough washrooms that there could be all gender facilities along with exclusively female facilities. On smaller vessels where only one person can be in a washroom at a time, it could work. This will be tricky.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 12, 2024 20:19:03 GMT -8
I never cease to be amused at the strange justifications that come up in the service notices for delays. I'm not suggesting they're making things up... it's just, sometimes I don't get it.
Today:
Our 8:00 pm sailing from Horseshoe Bay (Vancouver) to Snug Cove (Bowen Island) departed 34 minutes behind schedule due to increased marine traffic in the region earlier today, and the crew taking time to get extra vehicles loaded where possible given today’s heavy volume of traffic.
So... were there a couple of pleasure boats leaving Horseshoe Bay, or maybe a service barge, that meant the 'Capilano had to sit in berth waiting for clear water? And did that happen, like two or three hours previous, as the notice suggests? How busy can Horseshoe Bay be?
And I continue to be intrigued by the new wrinkle to the service notices, where they reference stuffing 'extra vehicles' where they can.
I guess I should thank BC Ferries for continuing to challenge the comprehension of ferry nerds. Regular people wouldn't even notice.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 6, 2024 11:55:49 GMT -8
Regarding this morning's service notice about route 2...
How can there be 'berth congestion' at Departure Bay when there's only one route, two vessels, three berths, and sailings every 140 minutes or so?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 5, 2024 20:17:44 GMT -8
Out of curiosity, what was the consensus on the two boat service they tried last summer with Kahloke and BSC? Looks like they're planning it again this summer. Did this (and Quinitsa at Hornby) make a dent in the notorious summer traffic up there? I'd have to imagine having two boat service, with one being an "traditional" diesel boat, completely eroded any semblance of crew/fuel savings from the BSC? It made a huge difference, and apart from the most intransigent BC Ferries critics, it was appreciated. One of the under reported though very important factors was that families with kids were less likely to be half a mile or more from bathrooms. To cut BC Ferries some slack, even when the cable ferry was being proposed, I attended an information meeting where their reps sort of acknowledged that replacing the Quinitsa with a cable ferry with the same capacity was not necessarily ideal, and the cable ferry may eventually need to be cut and enlarged; not, on the surface a difficult procedure, given the simplicity of the hull structure. More complicated, though, given the logistics of operating such a vessel on a route of more than a mile. I really believe that if this had been wholly left up to BC Ferries, and not imposed by the strange governance interference of the BC Ferry Commission and its head at the time, Martin Crilly, the BSC would have never left the drawing board.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 5, 2024 17:13:41 GMT -8
I don't think you're paying attention to the bigger picture. We're not just talking about a cable change. The BSC has had several shutdowns due to hydraulics issues, problems with the bullwheels and sloughing off of the plastic 'lubricant' on the original cables; all indications that the concept was not well thought out. There is also the fact that the fuel saving that was originally projected has fallen short, as well as the saving on crewing. BC Ferries has also had to maintain the conventional ferry docks at Buckley Bay and Denman West well past what was first proposed. Martin Crilly's directive to BC Ferries to explore the cable option on a route more than a mile long has clearly proved to be less than a stellar idea. I am looking at the bigger picture for the whole fleet seem to since they have issues too; but, people are more critical of cable ferry because it’s different type of propulsion system compare to the other vessels in fleet. Other vessels also have minor issues from time to time but they are not brought to media or politician attention since it just a normal vessel such as on Island Discovery having propulsion system issues, the Queen of Surrey had fire in 2003 and Queen of Oak Bay lost power in 2005, I don’t see anyone saying we should get rid of her because of those vessels issues. www.coastreporter.net/local-news/multiple-sailings-cancelled-between-texada-and-powell-river-8608528You're missing the point. Your examples of problems in other BC Ferries vessels are fixable. The limitations of the BSC aren't. It hasn't and can't deliver the fuel savings initially touted. I know this is repetitive, but it hasn't delivered the saving in crewing because TC has mandated one more crewperson than BC Ferries was counting on. Miscalculations on the cables resulted in horrible amounts of plastic sloughing off into Baynes Sound, and since then, cable changes have happened more often, and sometimes, as we've just seen, unsuccessfully. Problems with the logistics of hauling the cables through the ferry and around the bullwheels seem systemic and permanent. BC Ferries had a master mariner in Hornby Island's Peter Kimmerly warning them the the depth of Baynes Sound and the length of crossing made this venture dubious at best. BC Ferries on occasion has touted the Denman route as the world's longest cable ferry operation. If nothing else, when you look at the problems, that claim just highlights the fact that there is a limit to where you can run what is essentially a horizontal elevator floating on water, and BC Ferries seems to have found it.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 4, 2024 21:35:06 GMT -8
Not the same. The Coastals have had mechanical issues, in part due to how BC Ferries has chosen to operate them. With the cable ferry, the very concept of that sort of vessel on that route is probably wrong. They are same because they are both unplanned delays with Coastal avoiding active pass while for Baynes Sound Connector cable change taking longer. I don't think you're paying attention to the bigger picture. We're not just talking about a cable change. The BSC has had several shutdowns due to hydraulics issues, problems with the bullwheels and sloughing off of the plastic 'lubricant' on the original cables; all indications that the concept was not well thought out. There is also the fact that the fuel saving that was originally projected has fallen short, as well as the saving on crewing. BC Ferries has also had to maintain the conventional ferry docks at Buckley Bay and Denman West well past what was first proposed. Martin Crilly's directive to BC Ferries to explore the cable option on a route more than a mile long has clearly proved to be less than a stellar idea.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 4, 2024 13:14:39 GMT -8
The narrative on Denman and Hornby is that the cable ferry has been a dreadful failure, and totally undependable. The actual figures on cancelled sailings tell a less dramatic story, but I don't think there's any question- if it had been left to BC Ferries management, they probably would have stuck with a conventional ferry over a concept that, on this route, is at the edge of its logistical efficiency. Any vessel could have caused problems for BC Ferries it seems like now because Coastal Class are average vessels that still manage to cause massive headache for past two years. Not the same. The Coastals have had mechanical issues, in part due to how BC Ferries has chosen to operate them. With the cable ferry, the very concept of that sort of vessel on that route is probably wrong.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 3, 2024 20:26:55 GMT -8
The narrative on Denman and Hornby is that the cable ferry has been a dreadful failure, and totally undependable. The actual figures on cancelled sailings tell a less dramatic story, but I don't think there's any question- if it had been left to BC Ferries management, they probably would have stuck with a conventional ferry over a concept that, on this route, is at the edge of its logistical efficiency.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 3, 2024 11:42:58 GMT -8
Yesterday, the Baynes Sound Connector suffered a pretty significant failure of the cable system, or as BCF is calling it, complications during cable maintenance, and subsequently had to cancel sailings for the remainder of the service day. After serving Hornby, the Quinitsa provided direct service from Shingle Spit to Buckley Bay, and shuttle service from Buckley Bay to Denman West. Issues are continuing today, and the Quinitsa appears to be operating both routes on modified schedules, as well as providing a handful of direct sailings between Buckley Bay and Shingle Spit. Here's the service notice: www.bcferries.com/current-conditions/service-notices?serviceNoticeCode=8802222878472&subscriptionRoute=BKY-DNMI wonder how long sailing time between Shingle Spit and Buckley Bay is? Years ago, when the dock at Gravelly Bay was being rebuilt, they had the Tachek on the route, and they said the crossing time was 75 minutes. From the schedule, it looks like they're doing it in 70. Given that Tachek is faster than Quinitsa, one of those figures is wrong.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 2, 2024 17:45:19 GMT -8
Presumably, if Squamish has some jurisdiction over the LNG plant's location, they okayed the project. The company might have, not unreasonably, thought they would be able to moor a vessel housing the hundreds of workers needed to get things started. Still, it does seem odd that all those i's and t's wouldn't have been dotted and crossed. I can't imagine finding accommodation for all those people in Squamish. This particular story is probably not finished. It was a three to two vote on Squamish council. Surely their concerns can be addressed before the whole project is stalled. I don't think Woodfibre is even connected to Squamish, so they will definitely need the floatel. It is no different than a hotel, and it's only for one year, so it doesn't make sense why Squamish has disallowed it. Woodfibre is apparently part of the District of Squamish, so this is something that Squamish council has jurisdiction over. One of the concerns is the safety and treatment of female workers sequestered on the Isabelle floatel. I have no idea if that's a legitimate concern, so I won't comment. Squamish also seems concerned about waste management. You were right in your original query; why wasn't this worked out before this huge vessel was chartered, leased, whatever, as the plant's accommodations?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 2, 2024 17:00:58 GMT -8
Why did they buy the floatel if they did not know if it was going to get approved? There aren't many other uses for a giant floatel and it must be expensive to keep around. Presumably, if Squamish has some jurisdiction over the LNG plant's location, they okayed the project. The company might have, not unreasonably, thought they would be able to moor a vessel housing the hundreds of workers needed to get things started. Still, it does seem odd that all those i's and t's wouldn't have been dotted and crossed. I can't imagine finding accommodation for all those people in Squamish. This particular story is probably not finished. It was a three to two vote on Squamish council. Surely their concerns can be addressed before the whole project is stalled.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 2, 2024 16:51:26 GMT -8
Salish Heron now has black railings on both ends of the vessel. 'Railings' are usually for people to hold on to. Where are these railings exactly, how extensive are they, and what purpose do they seem to serve?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 2, 2024 10:02:47 GMT -8
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on May 1, 2024 17:14:25 GMT -8
I know the approach to WSF's Keystone terminal is notorious for it's tightness and shallow water, but Seaspan's Surrey terminal has to give it a run for its money as the most difficult approach in this general area. I don't know how to link Google Earth screenshots to this forum, but go there and check it out. With the narrow channel and adjacent log booms, I can't imagine how tricky it would be to guide a barge in there with a pusher tug. Maybe that's part of the reason Seaspan is more frequently using one of their new conventional ferries. There's barely enough room to turn into the dock.
49°11'38"N 122°54'35"W, if the co-ordinates help.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 29, 2024 20:37:00 GMT -8
I'm sure that Jim (Wettcoast) can affirm or deny his wife's ability to tell an occupied seat from an empty one, but there are enough posts on here to substantiate sailings where the boats are close to full, despite your 'contact' laughing and shaking his head at the notion. with all due respect, and again, apoligies towards mrs. wettcoast, all i was trying to illustrate was that two perfectly resonable ppl can very easily have different opinions on something anecdotal. to finish pt ii of my research... (and very poignantly brought up by paulvanb in one of the next posts actually, re: canuck games) near the end of the season, the canucks played colorado. i was on the skytrain and two girls in their orange uniforms had just gotten off from their shift at the terminal. i proceeded to ask them a few questions about how things were going. one was very happy to talk, the other probably felt i was too snoopy. heres what they said: - have never sold out a sailing - but have had to cut off sales quite often - closest they recall is ~75% - those were for those late nite concert specials last summer - they forget, but they listed off beyonce and ed sheeran - i asked how come the departure is so close to the end of an event - they said thats one of the main reasons why some ppl get left behind (so i assume they might consider delaying departutes to accommodate dilliants?) - that night of the game vs colorado (a weeknight), they said they were really busy. - i asked how many and they wernt willing or able to give me a figure - so i asked: "more than half?" - one girl said, "oh for sure" - but the other one, thought about it longer and said "yeah, quite possibly" - so again, within this small sample, ">50%" means different things to two different ppl there seems to be a lot more sportsfans/ concert goers from nanaimo vs those from victoria. my own opinion of course, but then somebody pointed out to me awhile ago: - nanaimo is a huge hotbed for sportsfans - the average there is a whole lot younger than those living in victoria - victoria has family demographics of all sorts - nanaimo demographics are dominated by young families. conclusion: their appetite for attending canuck, whitecaps, lions, concerts is bigger (per capita) than those coming from victoria? the point in all of this is that maybe hullo is onto something. did they knowingly have research suporting this before launch, or were they simply better able to react and capitalise once an opportunity presented itself? in between the long break, i now have pt iii to present if u guys arent tired of this yet To sort of paraphrase and maybe distort what you said with your opening remarks... human beings are notoriously unreliable in terms of what they observe. Tons of people have 'seen' sasquatches and Ogopogo... doesn't change the reality that those critters really can't exist. But there have been forum members of long standing who say they've been on Hullo sailings with almost full capacity. Perhaps more importantly, Hullo has moved to increase sailings close to the level they said they were going to have when they first announced the venture. This is a tangible, business oriented statement the the market is viable. I've followed the various attempts to establish a private non-subsidized passenger ferry service between Vancouver and Vancouver Island for decades, and I've been very skeptical about all of them... and they've all failed. This company seems to be the most realistic in their service model. They might still fall flat on their faces, but their initial investment and subsequent increase in service seems to indicate a business model that shows some promise. And as to your final remark... no, I don't think we're bored looking at or debating this interesting addition to our coastal ferry environment.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 29, 2024 17:41:09 GMT -8
I lose track of which Coastal has been out with which problem, and we don't have a general Coastal thread, so I'll just tack this post on here.
Couple of Saturdays ago, the Globe & Mail's Justine Hunter did a full page on BC Ferries' various woes. One of the recurring problems with the Coastal Class, she said, was due to an early decision by management, after the delivery of the Coastals, to dial down the engines every time the ships were in dock, due to noise and vibration affecting nearby residents in Swartz Bay, Departure Bay, and Horseshoe Bay. The constant interruptions in engine performance produced excess wear and tear on the rotors.
I have a feeling that someone on this Forum posted about that recently, but I couldn't find it. I'm always dubious about the press reporting on technical aspects of ferry operations, but Justine Hunter has a long and respected track record.
Anybody have any insight into this?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 25, 2024 17:38:08 GMT -8
The first part of this guy's Youtube video deals with his ride on the Northern Sea Wolf. His motorcycle fell over, presumably on the open ocean part of the trip north from Port Hardy, and the crew basically admitted it hadn't been tied down properly by a crew member. I've always wondered about those tie downs on the northern ferries, and the liability if something went wrong. In this case, there was apparently no damage.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 20, 2024 18:21:23 GMT -8
If you don't like my posts then don't read them-doesn't this ancient format have an ignore feature? I think that you are simply being asked to explain your earlier post. It is a very reasonable request. 'whalebreath'- Maybe you're completely familiar with the extreme rarity of a cruise ship actually docking in Nanaimo, and what Hullo's arrangement is, and how they might conflict. Many of us aren't. You could have spent another minute or so filling us in. I was also referring to another post where someone just referred to the Texada ferry going on an 'adventure' that morning. I couldn't see a service notice, and it was on schedule when I looked. Do people really need to post in shorthand?
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 20, 2024 18:01:24 GMT -8
I can't see very many future conflicts between Hullo and cruise ships in Nanaimo. No offense to the 'Hub City', but as the CBC article states, there's never been more than seven ships visiting, and they have two this year, and small ones at that. Even our venerable Low Light Mike declares his hesitation at visiting downtown for ferry photography due to the sketchiness, and even if Nanaimo's homeless/drug problem was less apparent, it's doubtful that a lot of American tourists bound for Alaska would want to spend a lot of time there. A lot of cruise passengers don't get off the boat on secondary stops like Nanaimo, so even the paltry $107k that the tourism official estimates they'll drop might be really optimistic. Campbell River built a cruise ship pier that has never been used, and Nanaimo also had hopes that haven't been realized. Prince Rupert gets a modest number of visits every year. Some small BC communities were envisioning a cash cow without really understanding the industry.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 20, 2024 15:38:47 GMT -8
Here is a ride video I recorded on the last day of operation for BC Ferries, May 1st, 2011. Hey, welcome back! Long time no post... ('Quinsam Teen', one of the forum's early members.)
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 19, 2024 20:15:07 GMT -8
As the saying goes 'a rising tide lifts all boats' but Nanaimo's good fortune with visiting cruise ships leaves Hullo drifting-they'll be unable to operate on May 9 & August 26 when the ships are actually in port. There was another post like this a couple of days ago... I really wish that people could take the time to post more than twenty or thirty words, and let us know the background behind what they're saying, or at least, post a link to more information.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 17, 2024 20:29:29 GMT -8
Thank goodness he only has a fleet of one vessel in his new posting. I don’t think he is in charge of stuffing the vessel due being Seattle based vessel. He would probably love to 'stuff' the vessel, but he might not have that much influence over the market...
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Apr 16, 2024 18:41:28 GMT -8
Was it responding to an emergency or taking part in a maritime training exercise? View AttachmentI don't know... you posted it... I didn't see a service notice. Given that we sometimes see the Queen of Esquimalt on Marine Traffic, I'm not sure we can always trust these curious course deviations.
|
|