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Post by Dane on Nov 29, 2006 16:40:13 GMT -8
... but what's the other option?
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Post by Dane on Dec 20, 2006 17:39:21 GMT -8
02 Jan 07 is the keal laying Cermony - Coastal Renaissance
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Post by markkarj on Dec 21, 2006 20:50:15 GMT -8
Quick question (and this shows my complete lack of ocean-going experience or anything)...
Would BC Ferries have to do anything different in bringing one of the new Super-C class ships across the Atlantic compared to sailing a ship like the Sonia (er, Northern Adventure) across?
I mean, a ship like the Northern Adventure seems more of an "ocean-going" ship compared to the more conventional BC Ferries, which mostly sail in sheltered waters.
Is this a factor at all?
Thanks
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 21, 2006 20:51:47 GMT -8
markkaj, the current C class do not sail in sheltered waters. The strait of georgia is considered open water. They have to withstand the bad weather of the strait but that is as far as I know.
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Post by Dane on Dec 21, 2006 20:54:00 GMT -8
It's the other way around.
But, markkarj they will weld the bow for transit.
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Post by markkarj on Dec 21, 2006 20:55:05 GMT -8
A couple of other questions:
I thought I'd read that BC Ferries gets to keep the plans/blueprints for the new ships that Flensburger will be building.
What was the case with the plans of the previous ships that were built?
I thought I'd read that after they had the Queen of Vancouver and Queen of Victoria built, they bought out the plans to avoid future royalties. Don't know about the S class ships though.
Real nit-picky question: how much would the blueprints for a ship be as a percentage of a ship's construction cost?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 21, 2006 20:55:59 GMT -8
Mark:
I think that this is a real issue for transporting the Super-Cees across the Atlantic and up the N.American coast.
The lack of a watertight-door is likely an issue.
I wonder if they will have some sort of temporary watertight bow door installed for the trip.
I would also expect that there would be temporary bulkheads installed across the car decks, much like the Queen of the North had permanenty (the sliding, half-high water doors which divided the open car deck into compartments).
I wonder where they would put the temporary officers/crew accommodations for the voyage?
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 21, 2006 21:03:02 GMT -8
Mark: I think that this is a real issue for transporting the Super-Cees across the Atlantic and up the N.American coast. The lack of a watertight-door is likely an issue. I wonder if they will have some sort of temporary watertight bow door installed for the trip. I would also expect that there would be temporary bulkheads installed across the car decks, much like the Queen of the North had permanenty (the sliding, half-high water doors which divided the open car deck into compartments). I wonder where they would put the temporary officers/crew accommodations for the voyage? The main doors will be welded shut. I assume they will build some sort of temporary door over the upper car deck, too.
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Post by Dane on Dec 21, 2006 21:45:09 GMT -8
The lack of a watertight-door is likely an issue. I assume you mean the bow doors? Other than that the watertight doors on all BCF vessels are the same as they would be on any other open ocean going vessel.... I wonder if they will have some sort of temporary watertight bow door installed for the trip. I would also expect that there would be temporary bulkheads installed across the car decks, much like the Queen of the North had permanenty (the sliding, half-high water doors which divided the open car deck into compartments). BC Ferries has already addressed this, and it's also been done before. More or less exactly what you said, weld the doors and add a plate. I can't remember where I heard this but I haven't been at many BCFS meetings so I assume it was an AGM where someone asked that exact question. BC Ferries have been across oceans a few times. I wonder where they would put the temporary officers/crew accommodations for the voyage? Take a page out of Alaska State Ferries.... tents ! The V Class vessels were actually a desaign brought to BCF rather than designed in direct consultation. (So they were a vessel that could be available to anyone sort of like a cutomized car)
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Post by Curtis on Dec 21, 2006 22:32:58 GMT -8
I never thought about the bow doors. I guess they'll have them shut till they arrive in BC or possibly they could have the ships with watertight doors that could either be watertight or not...if that's possible 02 Jan 07 is the keal laying Cermony - Coastal Renaissance How did you get this information?
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 22, 2006 8:29:59 GMT -8
How do you know they're going to weld the doors shut? Judging by the models, it looks like they open sideways, like on a Spirit, or the Queen of Alberni. Would they even need to weld them shut if they opened sideways?
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Post by Northern Exploration on Dec 22, 2006 10:09:51 GMT -8
The ferries could also be piggy backed on one of the Mighty Servant type vessels or their competition. One of those carried the destroyer Cole back from the middle east to the US for repairs. They carry whole oil rigs so it would not be a problem.
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Post by Curtis on Dec 22, 2006 15:59:30 GMT -8
That could be a intresting idea having a Mighty Servant Ship bring them over.
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Post by Dane on Dec 22, 2006 18:39:59 GMT -8
Because David Hahn said they would... so I guess it's not going to happen.
The Lay date is in the current issue of The Wave.
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Post by capainbear0582 on Dec 23, 2006 11:31:33 GMT -8
from what I hear about the new super "C"s is ferries had to pay half and then they will test them and everything and if they like them then they will pay the other half.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 23, 2006 11:36:06 GMT -8
from what I hear about the new super "C"s is ferries had to pay half and then they will test them and everything and if they like them then they will pay the other half. heres the news release that shows the contract terms for the super-cees www.bcferries.com/about/newbuild/contract.html
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Post by EGfleet on Dec 27, 2006 17:30:40 GMT -8
I never thought about the bow doors. I guess they'll have them shut till they arrive in BC or possibly they could have the ships with watertight doors that could either be watertight or not...if that's possible 02 Jan 07 is the keal laying Cermony - Coastal Renaissance How did you get this information? When they brought the Super Class ferries up from San Diego they put a false bow on one end. Those boats made the trip up the coast through the open Pacific...though really nasty weather forced the Hyak into San Francisco on the way up. I'm going to assume they've got some sort of plan for the Super C's and likely will cross them over in the summer months or a southern route when/where conditions are calm.
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Post by yvr on Dec 27, 2006 18:14:50 GMT -8
Delivery of Super C's
Two out of the three Super C deliveries are in winter months. Taking into consideration the Sonia encountered 11 metre seas off Oregon, how will the new C's arrive here? Flensburger are not about to take chances with loss of crew or vessel. It's all about risk tolerance. So what method of delivery are they going to use? Even with temporarily welded up - reinforced bow doors I personally do not feel the new C's are up to the rigors of a winter passage. That leaves a few options, towing, semi submersible heavy lift vessel, or equivalent barge. The heavy lifts may run into other problems, their ability to fit through the Panama Canal, plus high cost.
Unless someone has the actual document stating how delivery will take place, lets start our predictions on how the Super C's will be delivered to BCF?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 27, 2006 18:56:04 GMT -8
The first line of BCFS's newbuild-website-blurb about Flensberger retaining the vessel-risk until delivery says "FSG assumes all design, construction and delivery risk".
To manage this "delivery risk", what measures will Flesberger take?....I agree with YVR that this is an interesting issue to ponder.
That changes the issue of "how will the vessel be transported" for me, entirely.
The only comparative shipment that I can think of, for a non ocean-going ship, is the transport of MV Angel of Freedom (now HarbourLynx) from Philippines to Canada....aboard a freight carrier. Obviously a Super-Cee would be much larger than the Angel of Freedom......so who knows?
Flensberger has constraints of: - delivery risk - delivery due date guarantee
How will they balance these 2 possibly-opposing constraints?
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 28, 2006 17:48:35 GMT -8
German philosophy: "if you're going to do something, do it right".
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 28, 2006 18:22:46 GMT -8
German philosophy: "if you're going to do something, do it right". Then how do you explain Milli Vanilli ?
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 28, 2006 19:35:26 GMT -8
Hmm...no comment.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Dec 28, 2006 22:44:08 GMT -8
Hmm...no comment. It was the 80's... we all did things we regret....
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Dec 28, 2006 22:56:18 GMT -8
The ferries could also be piggy backed on one of the Mighty Servant type vessels or their competition. One of those carried the destroyer Cole back from the middle east to the US for repairs. They carry whole oil rigs so it would not be a problem. I think the Mighty Servant ships might be out as the Super C’s at 160M are a bit longer than the available deck space on those ships (Mighty Servant 1 has 150M of deck space and the Mighty Servant II has 140M). But with only a few meters to go, perhaps some overhang at the stern would work out. But the Black Marlin, with 178M of deck space would fit the bill, as would the Blue Marlin with the same. www.dockwise.be/?sid=18
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Post by Curtis on Dec 29, 2006 11:11:56 GMT -8
I think it's supposed to be done in Germany. The Vancouver company just gives them the look of the interior, and the workers at Flensburger put it in.
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