Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,181
|
Post by Neil on Jan 17, 2013 22:18:18 GMT -8
Lilgert has hired very prominent local lawyer Glen Orris as his counsel. He'll get a good defense. Should be interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Jan 21, 2013 15:46:00 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Jan 30, 2013 21:06:34 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 30, 2013 21:32:26 GMT -8
Today we have radio communication between the QUEEN OF THE NORTH and Prince Rupert Traffic released. Wow, Prince Rupert traffic kept on asking for their position, and QotN just wasn't able to give their position. How many times did Prince Rupert traffic have to ask....
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Jan 30, 2013 22:13:18 GMT -8
These radio communications have been heard by the public before. I first heard them not long after the sinking. They do indicate that the crew had a 'situational awareness' problem at the time. The media is handling this as if it was 'new' information.
PS: What has become of the first year's posts in this thread (March 2006 to May 2007 is missing)?
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Jan 30, 2013 22:56:38 GMT -8
These radio communications have been heard by the public before. I first heard them not long after the sinking. They do indicate that the crew had a 'situational awareness' problem at the time. The media is handling this as if it was 'new' information. PS: What has become of the first year's posts in this thread (March 2006 to May 2007 is missing)? With fairness to the media, this is in the news because it was played in the courtroom today as part of the ongoing trial. There does seem to be quite a bit of confusion on the ferry at the start. The radio communications also show that the APRIL AUGUSTA and other vessels from Hartley Bay played a critical role early on in the "rescue". www.cknw.com/news/vancouver/story.aspx?ID=1875971
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 31, 2013 7:05:48 GMT -8
With fairness to the media, this is in the news because it was played in the courtroom today as part of the ongoing trial. True, as each day's activity in the trial is reported, we will be reminded of plenty of items that have been news for 7 years already. - Hopefully there will also be some new news to report, based on any new items that are mentioned at the trial. We can hope...
|
|
|
Post by gordon on Jan 31, 2013 8:47:59 GMT -8
It's odd that Prince Rupert Traffic had so much trouble getting a proper location seeing that the senior officer on the bridge at the time of the accident was the Navigation Officer.
|
|
|
Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 31, 2013 14:23:14 GMT -8
Today we have radio communication between the QUEEN OF THE NORTH and Prince Rupert Traffic released. Wow, Prince Rupert traffic kept on asking for their position, and QotN just wasn't able to give their position. How many times did Prince Rupert traffic have to ask.... It has dropped off the national reporting. Unless it is a slow day or something new comes out, I doubt that it will be much in the national news and just covered in BC. The first day of the proceedings was covered on the National.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Feb 11, 2013 10:33:42 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Feb 12, 2013 15:53:13 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Feb 13, 2013 18:37:54 GMT -8
Two articles from the trial today: Testimony from a catering attendant who almost didn't make it out of her room. According to her story, it sounds like the water started entering her room almost immediately. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/02/13/bc-queen-of-north-trial-trapped.htmlFrom the Vancouver Sun, testimony from the captain. I've quoted one part of the article below... it sounds like the captain was alerted before the ferry hit the island? I didn't know there was that much warning.
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,181
|
Post by Neil on Feb 20, 2013 23:15:48 GMT -8
Is anyone else amazed at the contrast between South Africa, where someone accused of a murder two weeks ago is already on trial, and British Columbia, where it takes seven years before Karl Lilgert gets his day in court?
One of the witnesses in the Queen of The North proceedings today admitted that his memory of conversations with Lilgert and Karen Bricker was clouded by the passage of time. Gee. What a surprise. They'll be even cloudier, as will the memory of other witnesses, before this travesty of justice plays out.
One hundred and sixty years ago, Charles Dickens wrote a magnificent novel, Bleak House, which chronicled the chancery court case of Jarndyce vs. Jarndyce, which ended with nothing being left to fight over, due to the court costs of the interminable battle.
Not quite the same thing, I admit.... but in terms of timely justice, the Canadian system is completely broken, and we seem to have gotten used to that.
|
|
mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
|
Post by mrdot on Feb 21, 2013 10:21:41 GMT -8
the final answers to what really happened on the Queen of the North, will remain as unanswered as the whereabouts of the two missing passengers and my drawing of the two northern queens! mrdot.
|
|
|
Post by gordon on Feb 21, 2013 13:57:24 GMT -8
Was it common for there not to be a full compliment of bridge crew on duty on the Northern Routes at this time? and if so why would B.C. Ferries allow this practice?
Had the Office of the Watch been been at his station how much of a difference to the outcome of this tragic accident?
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Feb 21, 2013 14:17:24 GMT -8
Was it common for there not to be a full compliment of bridge crew on duty on the Northern Routes at this time? and if so why would B.C. Ferries allow this practice? Had the Office of the Watch been been at his station how much of a difference to the outcome of this tragic accident? Excellent question. I understand that the ship's navigation at the time of the accident was in the hands of just one 'licensed' officer. The 'helmswoman' was not licensed. It is my understanding that Transport Canada rules in effect at that time re the minimum number of licensed officers on duty was not being met. It is also my understanding that 'aids to navigation' (equipment such as radars, GPS, etc.) were not being operated in a manner consistent with requirements. It is also my understanding that this situation was not unique to that night.
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 5, 2013 16:34:29 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Mar 5, 2013 20:06:37 GMT -8
I recall that ms Bricker had worked for BCF for many years in catering, but had only transferred into the deck department about a year earlier. Presumably she was more familiar with the QPR wheelhouse, where she had spent much more time. The QotN had only just returned to service a week or two prior to the sinking. I am not clear on whether she was expected (as unlicensed deck crew) to be thoroughly familiar with these bridge controls and, if yes, whether she was adequately trained. It seems 'not'.
The G&M seems to be doing good coverage of this trial. Here are some interesting links to other related stories from the G&M: - Time line of the sinking and diagram of how the QotN was 'holed'. Something that the writer from the G&M appears to have repeated yet again is the bit about 'single compartment hull'. The QotN of course had multiple water tight compartments below the car deck. It could survive having only one of those compartments flooded. With two or more flooded the vessel would be doomed. Further, if the NorEx (or any other vessel) was to be 'gashed' as indicated in the diagram shown, it too would be doomed. www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/graphic-how-the-queen-of-the-north-sank/article7321260/?from=9310710- A discussion around the manning of the bridge - was it acceptable for there to be just one officer and one other unlicensed crew member manning the bridge? www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/sinking-trial-hears-bc-ferry-wasnt-staffed-according-to-federal-rules/article8960320/Did the ship's captain (or whoever decides who works with who) think it okay to assign these two to work together in the wee hours of the morning? Would he (the captain) have even known about this relationship between them and the breakup. At some point in this trial I expect them to get into the details of how bridge instrumentation (navigational aids) were being used (not used) and whether such met acceptable standards of seamanship.
|
|
|
Post by gordon on Mar 5, 2013 20:07:42 GMT -8
How much famillairization would Karen Bickers have had with the new Bridge equiptment prior to beginning her training that night?
it doesn't seem that his defense of bad weather is that strong with the other crew members who said the weather that night was fairly normal 20 km winds light rain.
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Apr 25, 2013 19:06:13 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on May 3, 2013 17:38:09 GMT -8
Go here for the full story ...
|
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,181
|
Post by Neil on May 3, 2013 21:27:06 GMT -8
So, the case is complete, and it goes to the jury. I think it would be difficult for anyone who's followed the evidence to believe that Karl Lilgert has come out of this looking very good.
Dozens of 'I don't remembers', along with numerous instances where he does remember things that support his case that he did nothing wrong. The phantom fishing boat that he says he was trying to avoid... the remembrances of weather conditions that vary from most other observers.
I objected to the instant condemnations that were offered on this forum several years back, before Lilgert and Karen Briker had their day in court. I still think those armchair convictions were ignorant and unfair. And the Canadian justice system is absurd- this long, to gather and present the evidence, with the accused unable to live their lives free from this cloud of suspicion, and the families of the deceased, without any answers as to what happened.
I suspect that Karl Lilgert will not be convicted of criminal negligence, despite the dramatic summations of the prosecuting attorney. But it's clear that he did not perform his duties to the very best of his ability. Who knows why. Maybe complacency from having done the journey so many times, maybe some complication from the company of the other crewperson he had shared a relationship with. Two people died and a ship was lost from his lapse of attention. Whatever the verdict, it's clear from his demeanor during the trial that that is a burden he'll bear for the rest of his life.
He failed to uphold the highest standards of seamanship.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 16:22:21 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on May 13, 2013 16:25:20 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Scott on May 13, 2013 18:27:23 GMT -8
The sentencing hearing will be on June 21st.
|
|