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Post by Starsteward on Oct 5, 2023 9:46:50 GMT -8
Hey, another 'ferry forum' where ferries on the North American west coast hardly rate a mention ...
Maybe forward this site to the appropriate folks at BCFS seeing as we seem to be in the market for another vessel?
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Nov 4, 2023 13:32:52 GMT -8
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 18, 2024 14:38:34 GMT -8
Another interesting page about the new P&O's new mega ferries operating across the English Channel (the P&O Pioneer & P&O Liberte). These, I think, would be too big for use on the North American west coast, but maybe if scaled back a bit ...
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Post by paulvanb on Jan 19, 2024 10:38:33 GMT -8
Another interesting page about the new P&O's new mega ferries operating across the English Channel (the P&O Pioneer & P&O Liberte). These, I think, would be too big for use on the North American west coast, but maybe if scaled back a bit ...
Not sure what the car capacity is, but at 754 feet long, it is a beast! Don't want to even imagine what the traffic on the highway would be like on disembarkation has begun. Staffing it to reach capacity would be a challenge these days, but in theory it would help with wait times on popular routes like routes 2 and 30. Could it navigate Active Pass?
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Post by Kahloke on Jan 19, 2024 11:05:52 GMT -8
Another interesting page about the new P&O's new mega ferries operating across the English Channel (the P&O Pioneer & P&O Liberte). These, I think, would be too big for use on the North American west coast, but maybe if scaled back a bit ...
Not sure what the car capacity is, but at 754 feet long, it is a beast! Don't want to even imagine what the traffic on the highway would be like on disembarkation has begun. Staffing it to reach capacity would be a challenge these days, but in theory it would help with wait times on popular routes like routes 2 and 30. Could it navigate Active Pass? 3600 lane metres is approx. 600 vehicles using BCF's 6 metre standard. That's a LOT of cars. Two of those might be enough for Route 1 without having to go to 4 vessel service in the summers but it would be way overkill in the winter. Dwell time would also be an issue. With that much capacity, I'm not sure a 25 minute turnaround time would suffice.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Jan 19, 2024 12:43:01 GMT -8
Not sure what the car capacity is, but at 754 feet long, it is a beast! Don't want to even imagine what the traffic on the highway would be like on disembarkation has begun. Staffing it to reach capacity would be a challenge these days, but in theory it would help with wait times on popular routes like routes 2 and 30. Could it navigate Active Pass? 3600 lane metres is approx. 600 vehicles using BCF's 6 metre standard. That's a LOT of cars. Two of those might be enough for Route 1 without having to go to 4 vessel service in the summers but it would be way overkill in the winter. Dwell time would also be an issue. With that much capacity, I'm not sure a 25 minute turnaround time would suffice. Best as I can understand, it looks the Pioneer has about an hour in dock on the Dover to Calais route, with a ninety minute crossing. It does indeed have 3600 lane metres, but given that a lot of that is commercial space, chances are those lanes are wider, so if you converted into just AEQ, the capacity might be more like 700. The emphasis on commercial traffic is also evidenced by her passenger capacity, which is no more than our big ferries, despite her massive size. Yes, probably too big for our needs and our infrastructure.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 19, 2024 14:20:44 GMT -8
My interest in these Euro ferries is driven in part by seeing what ferry designs are out there in the world beyond our coast that could potentially work here. This P&O duo are too big I am sure for BCF's route 1, but could the same vessels, reduced in scale, work? Maybe.
I am not impressed by BCFS telling us new vessels will not be entering service until five years from now. They need to find designs already out there, modify them if necessary, and then start building them asap.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Apr 9, 2024 17:30:24 GMT -8
This is a question for the small number of forum members who've travelled in Greece, and perhaps a couple of other European countries that have the same docking procedures.
I'm always mystified when I see ferries dock where there are no wing walls, no dolphins, apparently nothing but a concrete shore structure. They approach, virtually always stern to, and seemingly 'hover' just close enough for a ramp to be lowered onto land, with the bow pointed directly outward. I understand that they cast mooring lines, but I wonder how it is, particularly in rough seas, that they manage to maintain position, without slamming onto the 'dock'. Are there bumpers at the docking edge? Do the mooring lines hold the ship secure while engines provide a gentle pull away from the dock? And I'm not even sure it can be called a dock, because there's really nothing of what we understand to be a ferry berth.
I'm sure we've all seen the videos of cars and passengers loading and unloading while waves wash over the ferry's ramp. I guess this is the least expensive sort of structure for some of Europe's less privileged ferry dependent communities. I'm just not clear on the operational logistics.
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 9, 2024 19:37:30 GMT -8
This is a question for the small number of forum members who've travelled in Greece, and perhaps a couple of other European countries that have the same docking procedures. I believe that this is just an eastern Mediterranean thing ... Berthing structures in northern Europe are a little more substantial. I understand that tidal range in the Mediterranean is low, less than a metre I believe. That would perhaps explain some of the difference.
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Post by paulvanb on Apr 9, 2024 21:47:10 GMT -8
This is a question for the small number of forum members who've travelled in Greece, and perhaps a couple of other European countries that have the same docking procedures. I'm always mystified when I see ferries dock where there are no wing walls, no dolphins, apparently nothing but a concrete shore structure. They approach, virtually always stern to, and seemingly 'hover' just close enough for a ramp to be lowered onto land, with the bow pointed directly outward. I understand that they cast mooring lines, but I wonder how it is, particularly in rough seas, that they manage to maintain position, without slamming onto the 'dock'. Are there bumpers at the docking edge? Do the mooring lines hold the ship secure while engines provide a gentle pull away from the dock? And I'm not even sure it can be called a dock, because there's really nothing of what we understand to be a ferry berth. I'm sure we've all seen the videos of cars and passengers loading and unloading while waves wash over the ferry's ramp. I guess this is the least expensive sort of structure for some of Europe's less privileged ferry dependent communities. I'm just not clear on the operational logistics. I consulted my photos from Sicily in 2012. This was in the port of Favignana. Essentially, the ramp is lowered onto a giant block of concrete , but it depends upon which part of the harbour they dock. In one spot it is just cement, and part of the docking area has a metal flashing, but the ramp was positionned only partially on it. In another part of the harbour where Siremar docks, it is a large chunk of concrete, but they use old tires held together with rope or wire perpendicular to the wall as a bumper.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Apr 10, 2024 20:08:40 GMT -8
This is a question for the small number of forum members who've travelled in Greece, and perhaps a couple of other European countries that have the same docking procedures. I'm always mystified when I see ferries dock where there are no wing walls, no dolphins, apparently nothing but a concrete shore structure. They approach, virtually always stern to, and seemingly 'hover' just close enough for a ramp to be lowered onto land, with the bow pointed directly outward. I understand that they cast mooring lines, but I wonder how it is, particularly in rough seas, that they manage to maintain position, without slamming onto the 'dock'. Are there bumpers at the docking edge? Do the mooring lines hold the ship secure while engines provide a gentle pull away from the dock? And I'm not even sure it can be called a dock, because there's really nothing of what we understand to be a ferry berth. I'm sure we've all seen the videos of cars and passengers loading and unloading while waves wash over the ferry's ramp. I guess this is the least expensive sort of structure for some of Europe's less privileged ferry dependent communities. I'm just not clear on the operational logistics. I consulted my photos from Sicily in 2012. This was in the port of Favignana. Essentially, the ramp is lowered onto a giant block of concrete , but it depends upon which part of the harbour they dock. In one spot it is just cement, and part of the docking area has a metal flashing, but the ramp was positionned only partially on it. In another part of the harbour where Siremar docks, it is a large chunk of concrete, but they use old tires held together with rope or wire perpendicular to the wall as a bumper. Thanks for that insight, Paul. Still not sure how they do the engines to keep the ship hovering just a few metres off the concrete...
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