Truck falls off Nanaimo Harbour ferry ramp

[NMcKay]

At Albion, there are 2 Ropes, with chains attached, that lock into slot welded to the deck, theoretically they CAN hold the vessel in the event of a loss of power or loss of steering control. but i doubt that they could hold on long if the engines were put into reverse, the Quinsam, with four engines, could probably tear those little ropes right off in about 2 seconds if they put her into reverse and floor the controls. they have to have a balance between a safety measure, and something that can be quick enough to not require a long wait.

My 2 Cents

[Curtis]

rover239 said:

Lucky for BC Ferries, it wasn't that bad. There wasn't a life lost in this incident.

Plus they're replacing the guys sunken pick-up truck so by my guess he won't sue over the truck.

[Retrovision]

harbourlynxkid said:

At Albion, there are 2 Ropes, with chains attached, that lock into slot welded to the deck, theoretically they CAN hold the vessel in the event of a loss of power or loss of steering control. but i doubt that they could hold on long if the engines were put into reverse, the Quinsam, with four engines, could probably tear those little ropes right off in about 2 seconds if they put her into reverse and floor the controls. they have to have a balance between a safety measure, and something that can be quick enough to not require a long wait.

My 2 Cents

So I guess the question might now be, if this accident happened to be due to human error, if the engines were put full-ahead because someone thought the signal had been given to depart (the truck that fell into the drink was the last vehicle to be loaded, after all), or if it was an accidental tapping of the accelerator or turning of the vessel; although it's sounding like it would take a lot more force than a slight acceleration to snap those wire ropes.

[EGfleet]

cascade said:

OK - let's take a quick poll and see how many months it will take for BCFS and the TSB to issue a report on this truck tiring to learn how to swim.

Will it be 3 months
Will it be 6 months
or will it 12 months?

or maybe not at all???

It looks like "Not at all" might be the winner. See below:

Questions remain over ferry mishap


Doubleday Canada Limited
By Chris Hamlyn
The News Bulletin
Jan 13 2007

The fact Transport Canada has cleared B.C. Ferries’ MV Quinsam without finding a reason why it pulled away from the dock during loading and dumping a pickup truck into Nanaimo harbour is not surprising to the president of the B.C. Ferry and Marine Worker’s Union.

“It’s not unusual Transport Canada couldn’t replicate the occurrence. This is consistant with dozens of documented cases in the past,” said Jackie Miller.

MV Quinsam was pulled from service Tuesday night after pulling away from the dock, forcing Randy Nicifore of Gabriola Island to climb from his truck seconds before it fell into the water.

Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall said Transport Canada cleared the vessel at 8 p.m. Wednesday and it returned to service for the 7:50 a.m. run Thursday.

“After exhaustive tests, Transport Canada was unable to identify or replicate any deficiencies that would have caused the ship to pull away from the dock,” said Marshall.

Miller said inspectors from the Transportation Safety Board concluded preliminary interviews Thursday and were on the Quinsam Friday.

“They are attempting to replicate what happened, but it’s been our experience that the problem with this type of machinery is it is almost impossible to duplicate the exact situation,” she said.

Miller said there have been other incidents that have been equally dramatic without a vehicle going into the water.

“There’s the Bowen Queen twice that I know of, the Skeena Queen,” she said.

“There’s a number of vessels where they will sort of just pop out of the dock and nobody can replicate what happened. The crews now call them Gremlins because they can’t actually figure out exactly what is wrong with the electronics system.”

Miller said one time she watched the Bowen Queen come out of the dock and do doughnuts in Crofton harbour.

“They never could figure out what happened,” she said. “It’s a bit disturbing.”

Marshall said B.C. Ferries is conducting its own investigation, expected to be wrapped up by the end of January, but the safety of the MV Quinsam is not in question.

Asked if they were now searching for human error as the cause, Marshall said she wouldn’t want to speculate on the findings.

[NMcKay]

ill put my 2 cents on a sending unit in either the controls, or the control board, a simple thing like that is enough to put the vessel OOC.

[Low Light Mike]

harbourlynxkid said:

ill put my 2 cents on a sending unit in either the controls, or the control board, a simple thing like that is enough to put the vessel OOC.

Could you do us the favour of explaining your post a little more, please. For us less learned, please provide the lay-person's interpretation of your above comment.

muchio appreciatto

(late edit to remove high content of sarcasm)

[Kam]

The exact same thing happened at the Gabriola terminal in 2002 with the Bowen Queen:

www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/marine/2002/m02w0061/m02w0061.asp

As far as I know the RAD control system are almost identical.

The report is some very interesting reading.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

flugelhorn said:

hornbyguy said:

According to the Sun's Vaughn Palmer, the judicial inquiry ordered by Glen Clark after the '92 incident took one month, and resulted in operational changes and disciplinary action. There's no reason why this should take longer.

I was following the instructions in HornbyGuy's signature-line.

Wow, the Nemetz inquiry was done fast & decisively, it seems.

Does anyone remember seeing/reading the August 1992 news, where apparently the Queen of Sidney pulled away early at Westview, 1 or 2 days after the QNW accident. I remember seeing amateur video on that, on a newscast.

I remember this incident. If I remember correctly, an accessible van was being loaded when the Sidney shifted causing the van to pitch forward. I believe one of the occupants was killed in the incident.

[Low Light Mike]

re

I believe one of the occupants was killed in the incident.

If that's referring to the Sidney incident, then that would be news to me. I believe that you may be mistaken here. I remember the "Sidney, next day incident" as just being a matter of the ferry starting to pull-away while vehicles were still on the loading jetty, but none on the ramp itself. And I remember there being no injuries or damage.

The importantance of the incident was the ironic timing of it happening just a day (or 2) after the NewWestminster fatal loading accident in Nanaimo.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

I'll confirm/correct the details on the Queen of Sidney - Westview incident, and I might be able to pin down the exact date. I do remember it was within a very short period of time following the New West incident.

[NMcKay]

Okay , ill explain. The Control Has a set of Sensors, for the X Axis of the Control. ancd one for the Y Axis Of the Control. Each Part of the control has a sending unit, which sends the command to a control board, which will transfer it to a servo like device to control things like the Throttle, and the direction of the Propeller, if one of the units were to fail (has happened twice at albion in recent history) the vessel could have 1 of two things happen, 1. the vessel will have a loss of sterring control. 2. the Steering/Throttle Control will Misinterpret a command, A Slow Ahead Could be mis-interpreted as a FULL Ahead, which could have been the factor in this incident.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

I would suspect they are ensuring there is no damage to the cables, pulleys and hydraulics.

There is a good possibility the loading ramp was not designed to hold the weight a truck without both ends being supported...i.e. the free end of the ramp must be in contact with the ferry deck. If the ramp were to pitch down significantly due to the weight of a vehicle on it after the ferry pulled away, there is a significant likelihood of damage parts such as overstressed cables and warped pulleys or damaged pulley bearings.

If a counter weight cable was damaged during the incident, a crane would likely be needed to support the counter weight during cable replacement.

Just an idle theory.

[Political Incorrectness]

That is a good theory but then the question must be asked

1. How many kg was the truck?
2. Was the load of it taken before?
3. Could it possibly be a maintenance issue?

[azag]

MEDIA RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Jan. 15, 2007

B.C. Ferries ignored key safety risks after 2002 incident
- Warning indicator could prevent further accidents -

VANCOUVER – Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon must explain why B.C. Ferries ignored key risks identified by the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) in its report examining a 2002 incident involving the Bowen Queen, NDP Ferries Critic Gary Coons said today.

The April, 2002 incident was similar to what occurred in Nanaimo last week when a pickup plunged into the water after the Quinsam suddenly lurched away from the dock.

In its 2002 report into the incident on the Bowen Queen, the TSB found that two of the four right-angled drive (RAD) units on the Bowen Queen suddenly - and on their own - changed direction, pushing the ferry away from the dock at Gabriola Island.

In its assessment of risks, the TSB report noted that there is no audio-visual warning to tell the bridge crew that one or more of the RAD units has changed direction. Nine vessels in the B.C. Ferries fleet – including the Quinsam – are equipped with right-angle drives. And none of those vessels have had an audio-visual warning installed as suggested by the TSB report.

“A warning indicator could give the bridge crew time to correct the problem or to shut down a drive that was malfunctioning,” said Coons, the New Democrat MLA for North Coast. “It's been more than four years since this report was issued by TSB, but nothing has been done to fix this problem.

“It's interesting to note that, at the time the TSB came forward with their report of the incident aboard the Bowen Queen, the Campbell government was preparing to introduce their so-called privatized model for B.C. Ferries. Were they just too distracted to make safety a priority on our marine highway system? Or is this a case of pinching pennies - making the bottom line a priority over safety?”

The TSB also noted that the RADs have a history “of occasional erratic behaviour.” It said “spontaneous rotation of either the forward or after pair of right-angled drive (RAD) units” caused the vessel to back off from the dock. A definite cause of the RAD malfunction was never determined, but the report speculated the problem was a defective circuit board.

“Minister Falcon needs to explain why these risks were never addressed,” Coons said.

“This is just another example of why the privatization of B.C. Ferries is a failed experiment. It’s long past time that some accountability and transparency was restored to our marine highway system.”

-- 30 --

Backgrounder attached: TSB Marine Investigation Report M02W0061. See Page 10 for “Findings as to Risks”



Media contact: :   Neera Ritcey: 604-317-4450 or 604-775-2405

[Political Incorrectness]

azag, could you please cite your source so that I can make sure it is legitimate?

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

ferrymaniac101 said:

That is a good theory but then the question must be asked

1. How many kg was the truck?
2. Was the load of it taken before?
3. Could it possibly be a maintenance issue?

1. This is true; the weight of the truck would be very important...mostly with respect to whether the vehicle exceeded the designed load capacity of the ramp when it is only being supported by the ramp structure, and not the vessel too.

2. I'm not 100% on what you mean by this question, but if you could elaborate, I will postulate.

3. As far as the ship is concerned , yes. If a vessel has spontaneous, uncontrolled system changes, I'd say there is a maintenance issue going on!

In the case of the ramp work, yes, some of the work being done may be maintenance as they have the ramp closed anyways, but the inspection of the ramp systems for damage after such an incident would be required for safety reasons.

[azag]

was googling and found it!

www.bcndpcaucus.ca

[Political Incorrectness]

What I meant on the second question was that was the weight of that truck taken before or not?

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

ferrymaniac101 said:

What I meant on the second question was that was the weight of that truck taken before or not?

In that case, I would refer back to the answer to question 1. Knowing the weight is important, and so to is the position of the vehicle on the ramp. Since the truck rolled off the end of the ramp, we know the ramp went through the worst possible loading situation (all the weight of the truck at the unsupported end of the ramp). Therefore, one could expect a increased likelihood of damage to the system.

Okay, I postulated. ;D

[WettCoast]

So, if it turns out that this latest incident has the same or similar cause to the BQ incident of a few years back, then you have to ask the question why did BCFS's not do the follow up? TSB recommendations should be acted on, or, there should be a good explanation as to why not.

[Low Light Mike]

ferrymaniac101 said:

azag, could you please cite your source so that I can make sure it is legitimate?

Check out the "Garry Coons" thread on the general-discussion page.....he is the fellow who wrote this news release.

[Retrovision]

cascade said:

OK - if it is the joy stick control - then what are the trucks & cranes doing in the pictures and what are the people doing around the ramp - if they think it is a faulty control stick???

What happen in the last 9 times?

Equipment - worn out ? Wrong installation - position of equipment and why does it always happen when the last vehicle is been loaded??

Surely Transport Canada - must have an idea - given that they passed her so quickly to go back into service.....

(I wonder [out loud] now many transport canada official's previously worked for bcfs)

This crane is part of the Deas Pacific Marine crew's truck that was brought out. I'm assuming they only used it to lower the boat that you can see in the photo.

bcinnj said:

I would suspect they are ensuring there is no damage to the cables, pulleys and hydraulics.

There is a good possibility the loading ramp was not designed to hold the weight a truck without both ends being supported...i.e. the free end of the ramp must be in contact with the ferry deck. If the ramp were to pitch down significantly due to the weight of a vehicle on it after the ferry pulled away, there is a significant likelihood of damage parts such as overstressed cables and warped pulleys or damaged pulley bearings.

If a counter weight cable was damaged during the incident, a crane would likely be needed to support the counter weight during cable replacement.

Just an idle theory.

I was a little surprised to not see any damage to the ramp systems after seeing the news pictures from the night before of it angled down into the water, let alone that they were able to sail again from the same ramp less than 48hrs after the accident. I'm thinking that maybe there is some kind of system that would let the ramp go in such a case, and prevent damage to the pulleys, etc., and potential danger to others from flying pieces, etc., but that's speculation though.

[Curtis]

I Guess it just bent down a little more then it should have, So it was fixable.

[NorthIslander]

Ferries just posted info that it will put alarms on its ferries to warn when RADs act up -- four years after the TSB told it to...

www.bcferries.com/news/files/07-005tsbadvisoryalarms.pdf

[WettCoast]

Me thinks that Mr. Hahn has some explaining to do here! It seems that the Quinsam incident is indeed related to a prior incident with the Bowen Queen and BCFS's did not follow up on TSB recommendations. Both incidents were apparently caused by malfunctioning RAD units.