Mill Bay's future

[Doug]

However I left this out.

There is another option that you have suggested in the past...why don't YOU buy the Mill Bay?

[Quinsam]

Reason 1: Not enough Cash

Reason 2: I'm not a ferry operator

Reason 3: I feel sorry for her, but I cannot buy her.

[Neil]

I know I'm new around here, but I gotta tell ya, Quinsam Teen, sometimes reality is a really nasty world to live in, but ya gotta join it once in a while. And fifty lashes with a wet noodle to the guy who suggested way back that that archaic little tub be sent to Hornby Island. The main thing holding the Saanich Inlet route back from being a valid option for commuters is the ferry on it, and the sooner the Mill Bay is replaced by something that can take more cars, and actually has a passenger lounge, the better. The travelling public has this nasty habit of demanding basic creature comforts from their ferries, and the dear little Mill Bay doesn't provide it. What should become of the Mill Bay? Well, its almost small enough to sell as a bathtub toy, but it would probably leak oil and leave a nasty ring. I guess the ideal solution for the fan club would be if BC Ferries could somehow be persuaded to install it as one of the lifeboats on the Quinsam. It might fit!

[Quinsam]

Maybe a supplementary vessel for the Quinsam? To help out, not to replace it, and it is only a 3.7 nmile run.

[NMcKay]

look at the fact that it wont fit in the existing berth

[Quinsam]

New berth?

[Balfour]

BCF does not want to invest any money into that route. Besides, the government is doing a study on alternative routes that may include that area. We'll see what happens there eventually.

[Scott]

I know I'm coming in a bit late into the conversation. The "Mill Bay" is an interesting old ship. Slow but reliable, and from what I understand it's still in pretty good working order. It doesn't burn much fuel either. An interesting fact is that in July, it will have been on the route for 50 years (the entire life of the ferry). The route has been close to dead several times over the last 30 years, but it keeps sticking around.

The fact is though, that no one else in B.C. cares about the Mill Bay. Most people don't even know about it, let alone have been on it. It's been on one little behind-the-scenes route its whole life, and probably the only people who would care whether it was preserved live in either Brentwood Bay or Mill Bay.

The ferry is useless anywhere else. I doubt it will ever be sold to the Caribbean or Asia - it's just too small and too slow. It probably doesn't have a lot of asbestos on it, so it might not be too hard to scrap.

I'd have to agree with some members on here. The route might not be around for too much longer. Even if the route loses some money, it's not worth it finding a new ferry or refitting the terminals to accomodate larger vessels. So the ferry will probably be around as long as the route is... unless the route is still there in 50 years. And I can't see any private company buying the route when it loses money and the government is talking about building better road access into Victoria.

I'm not sure what old ferries like the Mill Bay can end up being used as. Some are turned into logging camps or fishing lodges, but the Mill Bay doesn't have anything to accomodate people, so that's probably out.

[Mike C]

What if they (BCF) sells it to Ministry for Highways, and they can run it accross some isolated lake or something? The Nimpkish can take over. The route is to be preserved.

[Starbucks Queen]

What is actually the problem you have, Quinsam-Teen You are interested in BCF - which is very understandable because ferries and their companies are fascinating.
Though, like many things - yoghurts for example - and ferries too - there are "best before" dates. This seems to come true about ships too, and the Mill Bay seems to be way past it´s best before date = it stinks !!!
So, as a ferry - company you´d say ok, let´s get rid of that piece of junk - we don´t need it anymore. What is wrong there ?
A ferry - company is there to provide best possible service for people, on all routes BUT: times change, and the needs might change over the years too. As a company they must act flexible and they must act instead of just react.

So.. stop whining, and enjoy a trip on the soon-to-come new ships and forget about the old tub that´s even not seagoing. Ask for a bridge-visit, and you´ll have a new favourite soon, and a big and new on this time

[Neil]

The route would have more value if it provided a better link between the Cowichan Valley and Swartz Bay; for instance if there were terminals north of Mill Bay on the west side, and somewhere around the Pat Bay-Deep Cove area on the other. Chances are though, BC Ferries would never entertain the notion of doing that. Still, a decent ferry with more capacity, and a bit of advertising, would make the existing route more viable. Somehow I doubt that BC Ferries will drop it. There would probably be a lot of public opposition.

[Quinsam]

The point is, BCF have put the route up for lease, the Mill Bay is not included.
What should they do to her, as she is not to go till 2011.

[Neil]

QT, all BC Ferries has done is solicited offers from interested parties to operate the route; they have to do that by law, as with all their routes. Its just a legal charade, part of the nonsense of BC Ferries being a stand alone private company. No one since Coast Ferries ran the route back in the '60s has ever shown any interest in it, and no one else ever will. I'm guessing BC Ferries will note the tourist potential of the route, and also the probable protest against axing it, and keep it going, hopefully with a vessel more in keeping with this century.

[Low Light Mike]

Today, I sailed on the Mill Bay.
It was a windy, rainy day.
I was on a business-course trip,
There were only 10 cars on the ship.

My trip planning was fine,
I was the first car in the line.
The ship arrived in a flash.
I paid my car-fare with some cash.

Terminal signs were defaced with grafitti;
I almost thought I was on Lasquiti.
The signs of some pot-smokers were plenty,
The spray-paint was a big "4:20".

On the crossing, I sat below decks.
With 5 fellow passengers (none named Rex).
I sat next to a hippie,
Who lectured me on Einstein's relativity.

For my choice of route to Saanich, I made the right call.
I managed to avoid the Colwood-Crawl!
Regarding the 25 km/h wind, I was a little wary,
And "No", I didn't see Harry.
========================

above is an accurate account for my day's trip. The ferry was a perfect alternative to being stuck in morning rush hour traffic on the highways around Victoria.

[Koastal Karl]

Cool you had good trip on the Mill Bay. I am gonna have to do that trip again one day. I havent been on the route in years.

[Retrovision]

If you're under the age of 30, I'd be more wary of the rockingchair-fast wit of the unthreatening crew that were on-duty when I sailed aboard. Insults veiled as sarcasm are still insults, an not appreciated by the people who support the Mill Bay and all other ferries/routes of BCFS' fleet. I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS; as you can probably guess, I've had a few negative experiences.

[Neil]

There was an old ferry nut named Flugel
who tooted that horn, not the bugel

He snuck on the Mill Bay
declining to pay his way

said, "No fare for me, I'm too frugal!"

.... sorry, 'Nanaimo, I know you paid, I just had to make it rhyme

[Fenklebaum]

Y'know, I'll weigh in now. This thread is bothering me.

Rant #1:

To Harry the "Quinsam Teen": I've been skimming through your various suggestions to find other uses for the MV Mill Bay, and quite frankly, I'm dumbfounded. Building two *very expensive* custom sized docks so that the Mill Bay can work as a relief boat maybe two, three times a year... Sorry, but that has to be the stupidest idea I've ever heard. It *would* bring your two favourite ferries to within spitting distance from each other, so you could take lots of wonderful pictures and ride them to your heart's content... but that's not the real motivation, is it? No, I'm sure the motivation is to provide *outstanding* service to those fine residents of Gabriola Island... Riddle me this: How in the world does it make ANY financial sense for BCF to come in with *twice* the number of crew each day to cover the run that one ferry is handling quite adequately? You've clearly got a head on your shoulders. Use it.

Rant #2:

I am sick and tired of reading all these wig-headed comments about how the Mill Bay should be immediately scrapped, how the run is useless etc. etc. etc. Forgive me for being so blatantly obtuse, but a few years back the decision was made to scrap all the old Union Steamships. Now there are none left. At the time, they were regarded as outdated, small, slow and odd, with little signifigance. People in the communities they served loved the boats dearly, and STILL remember them with fondness. That sounds like a certain little ferry on a certain little route that we have today...
FAST FORWARD: Here we have, for your consideration, the Motor Vessels "Mill Bay" and "North Island Princess" (in all her bastardized glory); The Coast Ferries fleet, if I'm not mistaken. Coast Ferries, which PRECEEDED BC Ferries. Coast Ferries, the contemporary to Mouat's Gulf Island Ferries, the contemporary to the Black Ball Line... All those ships (in their original arrangements, anyways; some hulls are being used as barges) are gone EXCEPT for MV Mill Bay.

Is she really historically insignifigant?

[Low Light Mike]

tsawwassenterminal said:

If you're under the age of 30, I'd be more wary of the rockingchair-fast wit of the unthreatening crew that were on-duty when I sailed aboard. Insults veiled as sarcasm are still insults, an not appreciated by the people who support the Mill Bay and all other ferries/routes of BCFS' fleet. I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS; as you can probably guess, I've had a few negative experiences.

At the risk of opening another can of worms, can you elaborate on your experience with the Mill Bay crew. I can't really figure out what you're saying here......were they funny, or silly, or hostile?
Just curious, as some people are easily misunderstood in their styles of humour and personality.

[bcfcbccsscollector]

Not that I am choosing sides here, but it's funny how this little ship becomes so damn "Invaluable" every time the Malahat gets closed for 3+ hours because of a slammer. I say build a bridge across the Inlet (Hmmm, maybe I am choosing sides?? )

And as a kid, you always knew what time it was in the afternoon when you heard the Marguerite's departing whistle from the Inner Harbour....IN SAANICH.

[Dane]

I have taken the crossing three times in the last 7 months and always found the crew to be spectacular... one Captain had a "rough" docking on one side and made the funniest announcement I've heard on a BCF to date "Don't worry, I've got it" and then made a thumbs up from the bridge. Hilarious!

[Low Light Mike]

tsawwassenterminal said:

If you're under the age of 30, I'd be more wary of the rockingchair-fast wit of the unthreatening crew that were on-duty when I sailed aboard. Insults veiled as sarcasm are still insults, an not appreciated by the people who support the Mill Bay and all other ferries/routes of BCFS' fleet. I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS; as you can probably guess, I've had a few negative experiences.

I'm not trying to bait you into something that you don't want to talk about Graham, but you made some comments that have been provoking some thought in my brain, and that I think are discussion-worthy. Here's some of my thoughts....and this is not meant to be a personal attack.

- "I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS". That's a broad comment. For context, it sounds like this is said regarding crew-reaction to you, received as you sail the ferries and roam the terminals.
- I saw you get "talked to" by a terminal crew-person at Little River in August (re being on the literal wrong side of the fence), and I know that you took exception to that.


- But then I saw your pictures taken from UNDER the loading ramp, of the Burnaby's bow, and it seemed reasonable to me that you should not have been there in that specific place taking a picture.

- Here's the pics in question: Now tell me, is it reasonable to think that the place where this pic was taken is safe for a non-crew-person to be, on terminal-property? Wouldn't you expect for a BCFS to be taken-aback when you emerge from such an area?
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p33733772.html
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p33733769.html

Leaving the Little River example, we have the Westview dock example, where again you went to a place that was "off limits" to take some great pics.

So, it appears that your character likes to "take things to the edge" and push the boundaries.....at least when it comes to shooting-sites for ferry photographs.

That being said, isn't it to be expected that you might meet up with some surprised ferry workers, and that they might not react in a manner of professional-customer-service-style.....but rather react in a risk-management style?

I might be off on a tangent here, and this type of "push the boundaries of sovereignty-preservation of public lands & deck-space" maybe wasn't applicable to your MillBay experience.

My conclusion: If you're asserting your sovereign/consitutional/whatever right as a BC Citizen to access Ferry property (on ship & on shore), you need to realise that you're also accessing someone's work space, at the same time that trained-mariners are working in that work-space.

So I think there's got to be a reasonable expectation on our part, when we set sail on "our" ferries.

I go back to that picture of yours, of the Burnaby's bow, taken from UNDER the ramp: How could you Not realise that this was an off-limits area (regardless of whether there was a sign there or not) ?? Common sense?

I think I see a connection.....

[Mike C]

Mike: You have a very good point. However, they should react in a somewhat kind manner when requesting Graham to not trespass on their "Marine Work space."

Graham: These experiences are pushing it, I know, and the particuliar experience aboard the Queen of Chilliwack was not pleasent and did not help. HOWEVER, as unpleasent as they seem, they are only requsting that you do not enter into an area that they would not wish to find you.

These experiences I can relate to when I was first a member here. I was requested several times by Fluge to post an introduction, and I didn't, I continued to act like a three-year-old on a community where that kind of behaviour is not welcome. I was asked to do so many times, and I did not, and I payed for it. I think this is what may be happenng to Graham: Ferry employees having their job made difficult for them because of unsuspecting people peeping into "Crew Only" zones.

That is what I'll dish out for now.

[Retrovision]

flugelhorn said:

tsawwassenterminal said:

If you're under the age of 30, I'd be more wary of the rockingchair-fast wit of the unthreatening crew that were on-duty when I sailed aboard. Insults veiled as sarcasm are still insults, an not appreciated by the people who support the Mill Bay and all other ferries/routes of BCFS' fleet. I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS; as you can probably guess, I've had a few negative experiences.

......were they funny, or silly, or hostile?...

Comments from a superior, as a member of the gerneral public, in such a situation are, by nature, subjective. I could have reacted by feeling any number of possible emotional reactions to your question; the point is that I've been led to believe it to be an insult, based on what I've learned about common sense.

[Doug]

flugelhorn said:

tsawwassenterminal said:

If you're under the age of 30, I'd be more wary of the rockingchair-fast wit of the unthreatening crew that were on-duty when I sailed aboard. Insults veiled as sarcasm are still insults, an not appreciated by the people who support the Mill Bay and all other ferries/routes of BCFS' fleet. I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS; as you can probably guess, I've had a few negative experiences.

I'm not trying to bait you into something that you don't want to talk about Graham, but you made some comments that have been provoking some thought in my brain, and that I think are discussion-worthy. Here's some of my thoughts....and this is not meant to be a personal attack.

- "I no longer tolerate unprofessionalism on the part of BCFS". That's a broad comment. For context, it sounds like this is said regarding crew-reaction to you, received as you sail the ferries and roam the terminals.
- I saw you get "talked to" by a terminal crew-person at Little River in August (re being on the literal wrong side of the fence), and I know that you took exception to that.


- But then I saw your pictures taken from UNDER the loading ramp, of the Burnaby's bow, and it seemed reasonable to me that you should not have been there in that specific place taking a picture.

- Here's the pics in question: Now tell me, is it reasonable to think that the place where this pic was taken is safe for a non-crew-person to be, on terminal-property? Wouldn't you expect for a BCFS to be taken-aback when you emerge from such an area?
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p33733772.html
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p33733769.html

Leaving the Little River example, we have the Westview dock example, where again you went to a place that was "off limits" to take some great pics.

So, it appears that your character likes to "take things to the edge" and push the boundaries.....at least when it comes to shooting-sites for ferry photographs.

That being said, isn't it to be expected that you might meet up with some surprised ferry workers, and that they might not react in a manner of professional-customer-service-style.....but rather react in a risk-management style?

I might be off on a tangent here, and this type of "push the boundaries of sovereignty-preservation of public lands & deck-space" maybe wasn't applicable to your MillBay experience.

My conclusion: If you're asserting your sovereign/consitutional/whatever right as a BC Citizen to access Ferry property (on ship & on shore), you need to realise that you're also accessing someone's work space, at the same time that trained-mariners are working in that work-space.

So I think there's got to be a reasonable expectation on our part, when we set sail on "our" ferries.

I go back to that picture of yours, of the Burnaby's bow, taken from UNDER the ramp: How could you Not realise that this was an off-limits area (regardless of whether there was a sign there or not) ?? Common sense?

I think I see a connection.....

Graham had a little audience there judging by that picture.