Mill Bay's future

[Low Light Mike]

tsawwassenterminal said:

flugelhorn said:

......were they funny, or silly, or hostile?...

Comments from a superior, as a member of the gerneral public, in such a situation are, by nature, subjective. I could have interpreted any one of those three possible emotional reactions to your question; the point is that I was led to believe it to be an insult.

Let the riddle/oracle continue....

So by who, or how, were you "led to believe it to be an insult".

At the rate this thread is going, it will be 2009 before we know why you felt insulted by a ferry crew...

[Low Light Mike]

Let me take a guess at the issue in question, of reactions/comments that we (the ferry enthusiasts) receive from BCFS employees. I'll speak from my own experience:
===============================

On the Queen of Burnaby in Aug.2006, I attended a group-tour of the ship's bridge.

During that tour, I asked the officer if we could go into the upper-midship-lounge, to see it and to take pictures. The reason that I asked this, is because normally that area of the ship is closed to passengers, and as such it's a "magnet" to such ferry-folk as me, who take note of the fine detail of the ships. To folks like me, walking into such an off-limits lounge would be "neat" (it's a ferry-nerd thing).

Well, the bridge-officer replied by saying something like "Why would you want to see that?". That reply did take me aback.......as it was a reaction that I wasn't expecting. Here I was, questing the holy-grail, as it were, by visiting areas of the Q-Burnaby that were normally off-limits to me. And I was jolted back to reality, but the words of someone who didn't really understand the reasons for my enthusiasm.

Was his reply an insult? I could have chosen to take it that way (and that's always my first, natural reaction). Instead, I saw it as someone who doesn't really understand me, and doesn't really understand what/why I'm interested in some offbeat things.

For me in my ferry-interests and many other things in my life, that's a common feeling, to be misunderstood. I'm used to funny-looks from people, whenever I talk about some of my non-mainstream hobbies or interests.

Perhaps those types of "why would you want to do that?" reactions reflect on a lack of open-mindedness of the person making the comment.....but I've also met some people who are more accepting about different ideas.

I don't think it's deliberate rudeness.....I just think it's an indication that some people are more used to diverse-thought than are others.


(Here's a deliberate unusual analogy by me, to illustrate the point)
- If I worked in a 7-11 store for years and years, and a person visiting the store asked if he could take pictures of the staff-washrooms for his collection........I might give him a strange look. Some other employee of 7-11 might be more accepting and have no qualms about someone's interest in staff-rooms of convenience stores .


Conclusion: I'm used to funny-reactions to my ferry-enthusiast-hobby......both when I talk about it at the coffee-room at work, and when I roam the ship/terminal on a ferry trip. I think that's just natural......as some people (employees of BCFS in this case) have never considered that someone else would find the various areas of their workplaces interesting.

And when you startle someone with a new-idea, they sometimes don't react in the best manner.

[Koastal Karl]

Where I work at Thrifty's they have school tours that come through every so often and I think what is so interesting about a Grocery store, lol! But there are people with interests in all different things. For example I dont which post it was but the guy who had the photos of the traffic lights. I think who would be interested in traffic lights, but I mean there are people who are. How many BC Ferries employees actually like the ferries or are interested in them besides working there, lol!

[Retrovision]

flugelhorn said:

tsawwassenterminal said:

Comments from a superior, as a member of the gerneral public, in such a situation are, by nature, subjective. I could have interpreted any one of those three possible emotional reactions to your question; the point is that I was led to believe it to be an insult.

Let the riddle/oracle continue....

Wrapped in an enigma
As with many of us (you folks older than myself no doubt know what I'm talking about more than the others) what comes out on paper doesn't always match what I'm trying to say, so I've edited my last comments.

tsawwassenterminal said:

Comments from a superior, as a member of the gerneral public, in such a situation are, by nature, subjective. I could have reacted by feeling any number of possible emotional reactions to your question; the point is that I've been led to believe it to be an insult, based on what I've learned about common sense.

flugelhorn said:

So by who, or how, were you "led to believe it to be an insult".

At the rate this thread is going, it will be 2009 before we know why you felt insulted by a ferry crew...

I wouldn't hold your breath; like the 'states, I try to stay out of libel territory as much as possible. ;D

Edit: I will go into further detail when I have time later.
...In the mean time, here's some reading material
dictionary.reference.com/browse/patronizing

[Kam]

hornbyguy said:

I'm guessing BC Ferries will note the tourist potential of the route, and also the probable protest against axing it, and keep it going, hopefully with a vessel more in keeping with this century.

Perhaps a new home for the former JAB?
A nice thought anyway...

[Retrovision]

kam said:

hornbyguy said:

I'm guessing BC Ferries will note the tourist potential of the route, and also the probable protest against axing it, and keep it going, hopefully with a vessel more in keeping with this century.

Perhaps a new home for the former JAB?
A nice thought anyway...

Well, according to the "Operations Report - For the Year Ended March 31, 2006 -- Round Trip Service Delivery and On Time Performance for 2005/06" section for the Mill Bay's route (Route 12) in the "British Columbia Ferry Services Inc. -- Annual Report to the British Columbia Ferry Commissioner -- Year Ended March 31, 2006", there's no problem with demand (When considering a vessel of the Mill Bay's size) as it lists 14% of sailings being "Overloaded".

Part 1 of this same report talks about "Overload Statistics"
"A sailing for which one or more vehicles waiting to travel could not be accommodated is referred to as an 'overload sailing'. Overall, 10% of the BC Ferries' sailings on the designated ferry routes were overloaded in 2005/06. On a year over year basis, the percentage of overloaded sailings on the major routes increased from 31.2% to 33.2%, while the percentage of overloads on all other routes remained the same at 7%."

[Retrovision]

flugelhorn said:

Conclusion: I'm used to funny-reactions to my ferry-enthusiast-hobby......both when I talk about it at the coffee-room at work, and when I roam the ship/terminal on a ferry trip. I think that's just natural......as some people (employees of BCFS in this case) have never considered that someone else would find the various areas of their workplaces interesting.

And when you startle someone with a new-idea, they sometimes don't react in the best manner.

I've been quite aware of the line between insult and surprised-reaction for years, and feel that I have a realistic sense of judgement about this.

flugelhorn said:

- But then I saw your pictures taken from UNDER the loading ramp, of the Burnaby's bow, and it seemed reasonable to me that you should not have been there in that specific place taking a picture.

- Here's the pics in question: Now tell me, is it reasonable to think that the place where this pic was taken is safe for a non-crew-person to be, on terminal-property? Wouldn't you expect for a BCFS to be taken-aback when you emerge from such an area?
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p33733772.html
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p33733769.html

Leaving the Little River example, we have the Westview dock example, where again you went to a place that was "off limits" to take some great pics.

So, it appears that your character likes to "take things to the edge" and push the boundaries.....at least when it comes to shooting-sites for ferry photographs.

That being said, isn't it to be expected that you might meet up with some surprised ferry workers, and that they might not react in a manner of professional-customer-service-style.....but rather react in a risk-management style?
...
I go back to that picture of yours, of the Burnaby's bow, taken from UNDER the ramp: How could you Not realise that this was an off-limits area (regardless of whether there was a sign there or not) ?? Common sense?

I think I see a connection.....

I might walk a tightrope at times between common sense and having security called on me, but I only feel comfortable doing-so because of the confidence that I have in my judgement in such situations.

For example...
Other than the "underwater cables" warning in orange, directed to people on the water not the land, there is absolutely no signage on this public beach at Little River / Comox terminal stopping anyone from travelling farther along a beach, even if that happens to be under a ramp far above them...


And you tell me after looking at the results of the risks that I took that it wasn't worth it

[Barnacle]

I never said they weren't cool pictures, TT.

I merely observed that if you were seen going under the dock at a WSF facility, you'd probably have someone coming down to see just what it was you were up to, and giving you the third about why you were taking pictures. We're a little uptight that way... seems our country's fearless leader (remember, class, the only difference between fearlessness and foolishness is the outside observer) keeps picking fights and we have to worry about who's out to make a point.

Just an explanation from the 'other side of the fence'.

[kylefossett]

For example...
Other than the "underwater cables" warning in orange, directed to people on the water not the land, there is absolutely no signage on this public beach at Little River / Comox terminal stopping anyone from travelling farther along a beach, even if that happens to be under a ramp far above them...




maybe some common sense. there isn't a warning sign on your electrical plugs at home but you have the sense not to stick a knife in them

[Retrovision]

I realize that rules, if not posted, are like laws, based on common sense - there are a lot of things that I take into account when choosing my path. But there are so many factors - If I was to play lawyer in the most stubborn way, I'd argue that maybe the foreshore is not under BCFS juristiction, although I did climb up the other side, hence my being caught by a BCFS employee - and although, like anyone with half a brain and a little animal instinct left in them, a very small part of me still, as an instinct, views any equal/person who happens to be in a position of authority at the time as being insulting when they put question to the fact that I know what I'm doing, my sense of logic is not overcome by such instinct. As anyone, I have to weigh the risks, consequences and benefits when making these kinds of decisions.

[kylefossett]

It is my understanding that BCF has waterlot leases on the foreshore and the water in front of the terminals. this is to keep some enterprising person from going and getting the lease themself and possibly setting up a fishfarm or oyster farm. this would severally hinder the abilities of BCF to conduct normal operations, but is a possibility if they did not have the lease themself

the following is a link to the CRD website and an satellite map they use. if you zoom in enough over Swartz Bay or Sturdies Bay you will see white lines, these are the different property lines. Swartz Bay is inside a water lease.
207.34.170.103/

[Retrovision]

Thank you for that insight, kyle. The little lawyer on my shoulder is asking what the extent of authority that lease holders have over this land is, other than having the ability to thwart private ventures.

[Barnacle]

It's not that they don't think you know what you're doing.

It's just that they want to know, too.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from taking these unconventional and awesome shots, I'm just trying to explain from the other person's viewpoint why they react in a surprised manner when they encounter someone such as yourself in an unusual location.

That having been said, I still concede they don't have to be a tool about it. ;D

[Retrovision]

barnacle said:

I'm not trying to dissuade you from taking these unconventional and awesome shots, I'm just trying to explain from the other person's viewpoint why they react in a surprised manner when they encounter someone such as yourself in an unusual location.

That having been said, I still concede they don't have to be a tool about it. ;D

No, I have no perception of the juxtaposition between myself and figures of authority in our society, not at all.

But seriously, tell me something that I don't know