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Post by Balfour on Sept 18, 2006 12:58:54 GMT -8
If WMG is awarded the $18m refit contract, that would be good for our economy, and our rather dead ship-yard industry. It would also be exciting to watch the progress for those of us members from NV.
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 18, 2006 13:15:14 GMT -8
Well, it's a relief to put these speculated rumours to rest. I'm glad BC Ferries has found a ship to replace the Queen of the North. I'm sure it will do a fine job. I look forward to seeing her enter service for the first time, next Spring. I'm sure Graham will be on standby next spring, so he can watch it arrive/leave Tsawwassen.
I hope WMG gets awarded the project. If they do, that means the Alberni and the Sonia will be fighting for drydock space. So either the Alberni will be at Vancouver, and the Sonia will be in Victoria, or vice versa.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager 
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 18, 2006 13:27:30 GMT -8
Well next Spring meaning when??? We are planning t doo the Queen of the North memorial trip next March. It would be cool if the Sonia was ready by then cause we could get on her instead of the Rupert. Unless we postpone that trip and go when the Sonia enters service. But yeah I do plan on taking a trip on the Sonia in the near future.
This is awesome news!
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Post by Curtis on Sept 18, 2006 13:38:30 GMT -8
I get the feeling we'll have to postpone it if we're thinking of the Sonia. But who knows she could be ready by then.
I wonder when she is going to arrive in BC.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,307
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Post by Neil on Sept 18, 2006 15:13:57 GMT -8
Nothing in the fix-up budget for more windows on that thing. Too bad. The eight round windows on the front look really dumb.
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 18, 2006 17:23:17 GMT -8
Well next Spring meaning when??? We are planning t doo the Queen of the North memorial trip next March. It would be cool if the Sonia was ready by then cause we could get on her instead of the Rupert. Unless we postpone that trip and go when the Sonia enters service. But yeah I do plan on taking a trip on the Sonia in the near future. This is awesome news! David Hahn was interviewed this aftn on CBC Radio's All Points West. He said that he expects the Sonia to be in service no later than the end of April 2007. |
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 18, 2006 21:04:14 GMT -8
So 70 cabins on the Sonia?? I guess half of them are for the crew eh??? How many did the Queen of the North have???
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 18, 2006 21:17:06 GMT -8
Well it has finally happened. The rumours that started back in mid May are now reality... Does anyone know anything about this ferry [MV Sonia]? Is BCFS looking at this as a possible replacement for QotN? www.balearia.net/admin/mostrafoto2.php3?foto=foto_grande&tabla=noticias_balearia&id=235A friend of a friend of a northern crew member told me that BC Ferries is looking at this vessel. It is brand new, about the right size, and not particularly pretty. It might be the sort of ship that they have in mind for building rather than buying. It seems unlikely that this ship is available as it just entered service a little more than one month ago. It operates in Spanish waters between Barcelona and Ibiza. BCF was apparently informing northern crew members that they were looking at the Sonia back in the middle of May. That is where my information came from in the original posts shown above. Information since then has shown that it is almost new, and has in fact been in charter service over the last two years, first in Trinidad & Tobago, and now in the Spanish Mediterranean. |
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 18, 2006 21:58:34 GMT -8
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Some Random Rupert Guy
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Post by Some Random Rupert Guy on Sept 18, 2006 22:38:30 GMT -8
 ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 19, 2006 6:56:54 GMT -8
Hey, that's not a bad edit, Some Random Rupert Guy....I hope they have the stick out on the back like that, otherwise it will look even more strange with a longer "butt" -- I found that wording on Sean's photo site.....
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Post by Curtis on Sept 19, 2006 7:15:03 GMT -8
Now that is definatly a good comparison. Except she'll look to be in much better condition in BCF colours.
It would be a good idea for a ship that big to sail to the Queen Charlotte Islands
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Post by WettCoast on Sept 19, 2006 22:21:29 GMT -8
David Haun was again on CBC Radio, this time on the northern morning show Daybreak North.
He said that the Sonia is NOT a transitional boat. It will be a permanent part of the fleet. One new ship already on the books will replace the QPR, and a second new ship, yet to be designed, will replace the Chilliwack. In other words there will be two new ships plus the Sonia.
He also made it clear that this vessel is slated to go on the Prince Rupert - Skidegate run once the QPR 2 - Coastal Serenity is delivered in 2009. So the Sonia is, in reality, going to replace the QPR, and the new build will replace the North. The Sonia, I expect, will be a good boat for the Hecate Strait, the most difficult waters of any traversed by BC Ferries.
Also of interest is that the Sonia has less capacity overall then the North [101 vehicles vs 115; 600 passengers versus 700]. On the other hand it is significantly larger than the QPR so will permit an increased level of service to QCI, and the the Inside Passage route during the off-season. This vessel is also much speedier than the QPR, and it does have 79 cabins sleeping up to 304 passengers, as well as 44 crew cabins. [The North, BTW, was listed as having 55 cabins.] If they do spend money on making some sort of decent view lounge on the forward part of the upper or middle deck they will have an okay ship. [As in modified drawing submitted by Some Random Rupert Guy above.]
It is also clear that they are going to spend significant dollars to modify the ship's stern, as well as up to $40 million on docks to accommodate the large butt of this vessel. So the total $'s being spent appear to be 50 million for purchase, 18 million for modifications, ~5 million for delivery and misc. charges, plus 40 million for terminal conversions in Prince Rupert, Port Hardy, McLoughlin Bay, & Skidegate. That says to me new berths alongside existing berths in each location. Add to that duties payable to the feds for buying offshore of up to 25 million.
One last thing - This vessel, as well as the QPR 2, both appear to be too large to get into mid-coast localities like Klemtu. Does that mean that BC Ferries will have to keep the Nimpkish, or a similar vessel, on permanent duty feeding traffic to McLoughlin Bay for transfer to the Inside Passage vessel?
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 19, 2006 23:09:04 GMT -8
As for the Queen of the North memorial trip in March, I'll likely want to be on the Inside Passage route, as close as possible to Gil Island, on the 22nd of March myself. If in fact the Sonia is ready by then, I'll be either taking an earlier trip aswell or instead of in March because I'd like to be on the original flagship of the fleet on the Inside Passage before we lose her.
As eager as some of you seem to be to get aboard the Sonia, it seems that you're forgetting about the fact that she will be with us for decades to come, and the historic and venerable Queen of Prince Rupert will quite soon be sold. I would rather mark the one year anniversary of the demise of our fallen flagship aboard her older sister and original flagship of our fleet.
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 19, 2006 23:31:31 GMT -8
(From: www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/travel/story.html?id=f6b7c090-e7df-484d-b90e-848303df079e&k=82167 )BC wants Ottawa to waive duties on replacement ferriesScott Sutherland, Canadian Press
Published: Tuesday, September 19, 2006VICTORIA (CP) - The B.C. government will ask Ottawa to roll back $140 million in duty on five replacement ships for the aging B.C. Ferries fleet. Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon said Tuesday it is totally inappropriate that B.C. Ferry Services be penalized by being required to pay those tariffs. "I will work with the federal government to ask (that those duties) be waived," Falcon said. B.C. Ferries confirmed Monday that it had finalized a $51-million deal to purchase the MV Sonia, a two-year old European car and passenger ferry. The Sonia will replace the Queen of the North, which sank last March with the loss of two passengers. B.C. Ferries said federal import duties of 25 per cent would be charged on the purchase price and on any portion of an estimated $18-million refit done while the ship is still overseas. It estimated total duties on the Sonia will be $17.7 million. The corporation has also contracted to have four ferries built at the Flensburger yard in Germany. That includes three Super C class ships, at a cost of approximately $325 million. The duty on those three ships, to be delivered between December 2007 and June 2008, is $89 million. Federal duty on the fourth vessel, a $133-million replacement for the Queen of Prince Rupert on the north coast, will be $33 million. Ferry CEO David Hahn said waiving the duties would give the company a chance to lower fares and accelerate its program to replace ships in its aging fleet of 34 vessels. Hahn said sending all that money to Ottawa was "a big waste." B.C. Ferries' wants to build 22 ships over the next 15 years. Falcon said B.C. Ferries should not be made to pay for having to go offshore to protect B.C. taxpayers and ensure that ships are built at a fixed price on a fixed schedule. He dismissed a call from a group representing shipyard workers in the province that the modifications to the MV Sonia be carried out in home waters. The B.C. Shipyard General Workers' Federation is demanding assurances the refit will be done here to keep the industry viable. An official said getting the work done overseas did not make sense given the duty that would have to be paid and the loss of jobs it would represent. But Falcon questioned the workers' demand. "They've never been busier. They've never had it better," he said. B.C. Ferries spent more than $180 million in local B.C. shipyards last year, Falcon said. "So they've never had it so good and I don't know why they're complaining about work that they haven't got time to do anyhow." But New Democrat MLA Maurine Karagianis, who represents a Victoria-area riding with several shipyards, said it appears the transportation minister is intent on undermining the province's shipbuilding industry by making it easier to build offshore. "As long as we are going to try and find ways to forgive duties and other taxes added to vessels built offshore, then we are throwing aside our local workers and our local shipbuilding industry," she said. She urged Falcon to rethink going to Ottawa "begging cap-in-hand for forgiveness on a foreign-built ship," saying that paying the duty is the price that must be paid if B.C. Ferries continues to give contracts to overseas builders. © The Canadian Press 2006
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 19, 2006 23:35:58 GMT -8
(From: www.news1130.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20060919_012101_1236 )Local shipyard workers want BC Ferries to do refit job in province
September 18, 2006 - 10:21 pm
By: Reshmi Nair/Tamiko Nicholson The president of BC's Shipyard General Workers' Federation is in Ottawa, trying to stop BC Ferries in its tracks. George MacPherson with the federation says he's upset to hear that BC Ferries will be putting nearly $50 million into refitting the Queen of the North's replacement, and that the work will probably be done overseas. He says the federal government needs to intervene because if major jobs keep going to foreign shipyards eventually there won't be an industry left in BC in a few years. MacPherson says workers in BC need to do more than just minor repairs on ships. He's lobbying federal politicians to put a policy in place which would stop most of the work from going overseas. © 2006 Rogers Communications Inc.
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Post by Scott on Sept 19, 2006 23:48:42 GMT -8
Yeah, all that money I send to Ottawa every year is a big waste too. Sure it would give the company a chance to lower fares. If Ottawa lowered my taxes, it would give me a chance to work for less. Fat chance!  I can see his point if the local shipyards don't have the capacity to build the ships - then what is the point of having tarriffs to protect an industry that can't do the job? But is that the case? I would tend to the opposite view. Tough luck. You wanted to build offshore, pay the taxes - they're there for a reason. Obviously someone needs a history lesson on shipbuilding in British Columbia. |
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Post by yvr on Sept 22, 2006 10:51:25 GMT -8
Some thoughts re the purchase of the Sonia.
1. Are BMT Naval Architects (the company who gave the thumbs up to the purchase) really world leading? If there are problems down stream would BCF have any come back to them? Again it appears BCF has used an American consultant - this is the second time during the purchasing procedure. I find it hard to believe there no Canadian companies available?
2. Has anyone ever heard of Chris Simopoulos, the Naval Architect who designed the ship? Did his group do a good job?
3. BCF's press release states the Sonia can carry 101 vehicles. However she seems to have lower and upper car decks. If you check the specs shown on page 6, the lower carries 28 cars, and the upper 20. The main deck which supposedly has 400 LM is rated at 134 cars. Of course one has to factor in the smaller European vehicles. Still BCF's numbers appear slightly low. Unless they plan not to use the lower (tween decks) capacity.
4. On a previous page I mentioned the uncomfortable bar seats would not be satisfactory for the journeys planned. I'm pleased to see they plan new seating. (perhaps they read my post) way to go BCF!
5. Adapting the vessel to fit our docks. It appears that some sort of tapered diving platform will have to be welded onto the stern of the vessel. Should be very unattractive, and perhaps cause problems in bad weather!
6. Finally one can only hope that the "Steel work" mentioned for modifications also includes the fitting of panoramic windows in the forward lounges. So many members of this forum have raised concerns over this item. Yet no documentation of window installations exists in the press releases. Perhaps BCF doesn't want to admit they bought a ferry with submarine size portholes!
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