Update on Replacement Vessel

[Doug]

oceaneer77 said:

More on the Bergen/duchess/Atlantic Traveler

www.holidaywatchdog.com/13353-MS_Duchess_of_Scandinavia-MS_Duchess_of_Scandinavia_Cruise_Ship-Holiday-Review.html



MS Duchess of Scandinavia Cruise Ship

The Duchess of Scandinavia, which joined the DFDS Seaways fleet in April 2003 and is one of the most modern and stylish ships. Our onboard facilities are specially centred around one deck, making it easier and quicker to get around. And with a Cinema, 2 Bars, a selection of 3 dining options and outdoor areas, you're sure to find it hard to choose what to do on your overnight crossing.


Hanstholm - Egersund - Haugesund - Bergen (From 17/11-2005)
Building year 1993
Building yard Fosen, Norway
Owner Bergensfjord KS
Operator Fjord Line
Length 134,5 m
Breadth 24,0 m
Draft 5,7 m
GT 16.551
Machinery Sulzer
Speed 20 kn.
Number of passengers 900
Number of beds 559
Number of cars 350
Lanemetres 720
Port of registry København
Flag Denmark
Former names Duchess of Scandinavia (2003-2005) - DFDS Seaways
Bergen (1993-2003) - Fjord Line
Former owners Bergen Nordhordland Rutelag ASA (1993-2004)
Sister ships -
Notes -
www.ferry-site.dk/ferry.php?id=9058995&lang=en

On this site look ath the bow photos she appears to to have a bow visor
www.faktaomfartyg.com/duchess_of_scandinavia_1993_b_8.htm

This is the sister vessel of Marine Atlantic's Leif Ericson, previously named Stena Challenger.

Leif Ericson:


Stena Challenger Grounded:


Another View:

[Low Light Mike]

Thanks for clearing that up, Tsawwassen-Terminator.

It's interesting how some things trigger these types of reactions in us.

[Balfour]

If anyone was reading the Province this morning, you should know that the Sonia has been bought by BCF.

[Queen of Nanaimo Teen]

Ya, I just read that on the web. Thats pretty interesting! I wonder what they will name it?

[Shipwatcher]

www.canada.com/theprovince

Link to todays paper!

[yvr]

Geesh - With the so called ferry experts on this site how did official news of the Sonia purchase get by all of us?

I suspect that when it came to crunching the numbers the Sonia just worked out cheaper than the Nisos Mykonos. Next we have to find out how much it costs to fit panorama windows, a solarium, and perhaps a bow door. The total cost to BCF for the vessel, surveys, modifications, delivery, crew training is going to be high. Then after all that we have to determine if this Greek built tub is going to operate satisfactorily. It should be interesting.

[WettCoast]

It now appears to be a done deal. They have bought the Sonia, it will be renamed Coastal something, and in time I might even grow to like the ship. Maybe...

But at this time it looks to me like they are making a big mistake. Alterations required to the ship and to berths at PH, PR, MB & QCI will cost $30+ million (more than indicated in the CanWest Province report]. I doubt that this vessel is capable of getting into other mid coast locations such as Klemtu.

The vessel is an ugly duckling and overcoming that will take more than money.

They should have chartered something older such as the Scotia Prince while they built new ships designed for the northern BC Coast service.

Let us also not forget that replacement of the 40 year old QPR is urgent! We need an assurance from BCFS that a replacement for the Rupert will be in place by the spring of 2009.

[WettCoast]

Current appearance of the Sonia:





How will they fit that massive back end into any BCF berth?

[Doug]

The Asian vessel looks the best, followed by the Atlantic Traveler. But the Sonia is just plain ugly. If BC Ferries ever considered opening some more windows, and replacing those hideous round windows, it might make it look a little better. It looks like a giant McDonald's "Play Place" as it is.

[Doug]

www.faktaomfartyg.com/adamantios_korais_2004.htm

It lists the ship as sold to BC Ferries now on this website.

[Shipwatcher]

The only thing I can think of right now is that they may renovate the front, built a Visor like the QTN and dock the vessle at all docks via the bow. The ship looks like it may have plenty of room inside for vehicles to turn around.

Even though it is a "Ugly Duckling" the mv Sonia to me is a better choice over the Atlantic Traveller. I just can not picture that massive vessle on our routes, She is just too big.

But, we will just have to wait and see to sea what BCF does to make her fit.

[Retrovision]

dougubell said:

www.faktaomfartyg.com/adamantios_korais_2004.htm

It lists the ship as sold to BC Ferries now on this website.

Thanks to www.systransoft.com/index.html,
What is listed on www.faktaomfartyg.com:

"2006. Såld till BC Ferries, Kanada för leverans under hösten."

Translates As:

"2006. Sold to BC Ferries, Canada for delivery during the autumn"

[Curtis]

It was Absolutley Perfect except for the Price So Instead we pick the Ship that Could never fit in a BC Ferry Dock The M.V. Sonia.
If we really wanted to have a ship that looked like the Queen of the North We could have tried getting this. www.faktaomfartyg.com/saint_patrick_1973.htm

[NMcKay]

it might turn out to be cheaper to build another dock for the sonia, but at this point, it looks like she just needs some pilings, and a flat piece of spare wharfage. probably very cheap if BC Ferries does it right, i would like to see what they do with her. once the new replacement is purchased.

[tyty]

wetcoastkidjst said:

... at this time it looks to me like they are making a big mistake. Alterations required to the ship and to berths at PH, PR, MB & QCI will cost $30+ million (more than indicated in the CanWest Province report]. I doubt that this vessel is capable of getting into other mid coast locations such as Klemtu.

Remember, though, that the Queen of the North couldn't fit the docks at either Klemtu or Shearwater before, either. So long as the new vessel can fit into McLoughlin Bay where connections can be made to a minor vessel that would serve the other mid-coast ports (this is during the off-peak season, of course, when there is no Discovery Coast ferry), then that's fine.

But you're right, that would mean extremely expensive alterations to at least four ports.

[Koastal Karl]

They could still run the Chilliwack during the winter between the mid coast stops and also use the Nimpkish. Those other ships that look like the North, are they available??? And also the Scotia Prince were the closest looking ships to the Queen of the North. They might have to do some work to the Sonia as far as forward windows for viewing if they want to make it a nice ship for passengers, with good viewing lounges, ect..

[Curtis]

I get the Feeling the Chilliwack could stay up there for the rest of her service life. Whatever happens I don't think BC Ferries did the right thing with purchasing the Sonia if they had bought the other one there wouldn't be much modifying but maybe they could make docks that just need the stern to unload on a surface like the Kwuna does.

[yvr]

Cascade point out that the Nisos Mykonos appears to be a fine vessel, which he rates above the Sonia. Would the assumption of lower fuel consumption on the Nisos be based on the Wartsila power plants VS the orphan MAK's on the Sonia? Also does one assume Nisos's longer water line in association with hull design factor into the speed equation? What about the single rear loading door, the approx 5000 tons heaver weight, and the 60 feet of extra length, do we really need that? For the owners of the Nisos, the ability to sell a used ship for more than they purchased it for is only good economic sense. Does anyone know the original purchase price of the Sonia? How I'd love to able to armchair CEO the numbers of the top 5 ships. The Nisos's good lines, are a plus in themselves, just looking at the Sonia say's "make me a deal". Let's hope it was the right deal - at the right price!!!

[WettCoast]

According to at least two sources the main engines are actually MAK 16M32C. Those sources are www.faktaomfartyg.com/adamantios_korais_2004.htm, and img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soniainfo14nd.jpg (from ShipPax - www.shippax.se/)

The assertion that this vessel has orphan MaK engines is, I believe, untrue, as per the references listed above. The 16M32C engines are apparently quite common.

Nevertheless, I agree that Sonia does not appear to be desirable for many reasons. The Nisos Mykonos appears to be great, except for one thing - it is way to big - three times the auto capacity of the North. The auto holding compounds at Prince Rupert and Port Hardy would have to be doubled in capacity.

[Political Incorrectness]

The Nissos would also have to have it's own modifications done, I think they had a configuration similiar to an S class with the capacity she can handle, unless her waterline is so far down you can put another car deck below the waterline. If above, you could make the area cabins, if below, I have no idea. If you see the pictures of the Nissos, she has a huge bulb on the bow which may make for some good speed.

[yvr]

It appears that Hellenic may have erred in regards to only offering the Ninos Mykonos for TC only. If an outright sale had been offered, perhaps she would have been the vessel acquired. As Cascade points out, Hellenic have two more sisters on order. The second acquisition could have replaced the Ninos, and an order for the fourth ship placed. I personally still have concerns regarding the Ninos's larger size. Of course one would assume that larger engines consuming more fuel are required to propel this vessel. (Has any of our members found the "Detailed Specs" for the Ninos - including deck plans) Factoring in her one stern door perhaps the second choice was the better one. Perhaps Cascade would provide insight as to the shipyard she was built at. Based on your experience, would having a Ninos Mykonos vessel built to equivalent standard, be more economical in Germany, Finland, or Greece? What concerns would you have with each yard? Do you believe BCF should be exploring the Greek yard where she was built for our #2 and 3 hulls?

What are Cascade's thought's on using the #4 choice vessel "Daedalus / Riviera Adriatica" until 3 new sisters were built? That ship was a probably a very very economical option. Once the 3 new ones were delivered it could have been sold.

Awaiting the interior photo's.

[Political Incorrectness]

This just came into my mind. If you built a berthing structure wide enough to handle two stern ramps on it, you could also have a bow ramp rest on it. It is a matter of designing the berth structure correctly.

[WettCoast]

BCFS is buying the Sonia so information on the Nissos Mykonos is now simply of academic interest. For information on this ship go to the following Swedish language website:

www.faktaomfartyg.com/nissos_mykonos_2005.htm

It turns out that this ship took even longer to build than the Sonia - started in 1999 and finished in 2005!

It is, for sure, much better looking than the Sonia. It size is a problem. While its capacity would be usable during peak summer months it would be way too large and expensive for operation during the rest of the year. Imagine operating a ferry with Spirit class auto capacity to serve the Charlottes! Even on the Inside Passage in high summer the vessel's capacity would be a problem. Existing ferry terminal parking lots and other facilities in both PR & PH are too small to serve a ship of this size. Hotel and campground facilities in both communities don't have the capacity to serve a ship of this size.

What has been desired for some time by people in both PR & PH is a balanced service with two ships running back to back and daily departures in both directions. When the QPR was built in 1966 the plan was to build a sister [Queen of Kelsey Bay?] so that there would be daily service. So that brings us forward to 2006. BCFS needs to have two ships on the Inside Passage route during summer. Ideally the ships would be a little larger than the QotN, each with auto capacity of 150 to 200, and passenger capacity of 800, and with sufficient speed to do the route in about 14 hours.

Two other smaller ships have to be built to serve the PR - QCI run, and the PH - mid coast - Bella Coola route. These smaller ships [auto capacity of ~100] would also be better suited to fill the fall - winter - spring requirements for all northern routes. They should be a little faster [19 or 20 knots service speed] so as to avoid the need for overnight operation and minimize the need for sleeping accommodation.

Ideally all four ships would be able to operate in open water [Hecate Strait and Queen Charlotte Sound] year round. Having four such vessels would mean that should the unthinkable happen again we would not be in such a pickle as we are today.

[NMcKay]

shes the ship we SHOULD have bought

[Balfour]

wetcoastkidjst said:

What has been desired for some time by people in both PR & PH is a balanced service with two ships running back to back and daily departures in both directions. When the QPR was built in 1966 the plan was to build a sister [Queen of Kelsey Bay?] so that there would be daily service. So that brings us forward to 2006. BCFS needs to have two ships on the Inside Passage route during summer. Ideally the ships would be a little larger than the QotN, each with auto capacity of 150 to 200, and passenger capacity of 800, and with sufficient speed to do the route in about 14 hours.

Two other smaller ships have to be built to serve the PR - QCI run, and the PH - mid coast - Bella Coola route. These smaller ships [auto capacity of ~100] would also be better suited to fill the fall - winter - spring requirements for all northern routes. They should be a little faster [19 or 20 knots service speed] so as to avoid the need for overnight operation and minimize the need for sleeping accommodation.

Ideally all four ships would be able to operate in open water [Hecate Strait and Queen Charlotte Sound] year round. Having four such vessels would mean that should the unthinkable happen again we would not be in such a pickle as we are today.

I think your idea will be needed in the future. I'm sure many people here are aware that the Port of Prince Rupert is supposed to undergo a massive expansion because Vancouver is getting pretty backed up as it is, and more trade with Asia will occur over the next few decades. Meaning a second large port on the BC Coast. This will likely mean more population for the North Coast, therefore more service from BCF will be needed.