Update on Replacement Vessel

[WettCoast]

Hornbyguy?

Did you realize that Hartley Bay does not now, nor has it ever had, any service from BC Ferries. The vessels just steam right on by unless they run into an island.

BTW - The BCFS's press release re the new build ship says it is for the Inside Passage. The QPR is the QCI vessel. Is BCFS's just not being very clear here?

[Neil]

Wetcoastkid- Yes, I'm quite aware that Hartley Bay has never been served by BC Ferries. I was speaking in general terms of the central coast (yes, I know, Hartley Bay's further north).

Cascade- Can't really disagree with what you say about WMG's strategy (oooh, that hurts), but surely you can understand the union members protesting that they're losing hundreds of thousands of man hours on new builds. As long as our current government is in power, the argument about building here or overseas is over, but maintenance work does not make up for new build work, in terms of hours, or new skills gained.

[hergfest]

The new WSF ferries are being built in Washington because the legislature put it in the funding that they had to be built in Washington.

[WettCoast]

Cascade's suggests that BCFS should build or acquire big ships based on anticipated demand 15 or 25 years down the road. I would suggest ships modestly larger than the QPR & QotN, but not huge such as the size of the Nissos Nikonos.

Why do I say that?

• For one, the current population of the entire BC Coast north of Campbell River is less than 100,000. Over the last 25 years the population has been shrinking and in the long term I believe that that trend will continue. There will, however, most certainly be an increased short term demand while major construction projects are underway up here on the North Coast, such as Alcan's $2 billion smelter rebuild, Prince Rupert port expansion, and various pipeline projects. When those projects are completed, however, there are not a lot of permanent jobs. While BC's population as a whole is growing fast, in northern BC, for the most part, it is shrinking.
  
  
• Demand on the Inside Passage route in the peak part of summer would likely support a big ship like the Nissos Nikonos. But for eight months of the year the ship would be three times bigger than needed. The result would likely be that the ship would sit idle for most of the year.
  
  
• Serving some of the smaller mid-coast ports such as Klemtu requires a relatively small ship. The QPR can get into some of these places, but the QotN could not. If your ships are too large to serve such ports then you are forced to take on the added expense of operating a feeder ferry service such as that now being provided by the Nimpkish.
  

In short, BCFS appears to be doing the right thing by going for ships that are modestly larger than the ships being replaced.
Perhaps a private 'Rocky Mountaineer' type mid to high end tourist operation to supplement BCFS Inside Passage service during the peak summer months might come to pass.

[Neil]

Why private? Since the Coastal Ferries Act mandates that BC Ferries be commercially oriented, and thus entrepreneurial, why not keep it in the (at least) semi-public domain? They already have the facilities. Why let the potentially 'gravy' services go to private operators?

[Scott]

hornbyguy said:

Abandon the central coast and all the First Nations customers after what Hartley Bay did for the 'North's passengers? Hoo boy, wouldn't that look good....

They may not service Hartley Bay, but they put a guy out of business who served the coast with passenger and freight service. I forget the whole story, but when BC Ferries started their central coast route, they put him out of business. I think pulling out now would make them look pretty bad. Of course, they could always blame it (creating the route) on previous management!

[poeticlives]

Do most passengers get of at Prince Rupert? I don't see them abandoning the Queen Charlottes. Vehicles still have to get there, and I don't see too many tourists falling for the anti-charm of flying in (unless they're pressed for time- you know, the ones that need to relax)

I think BC Ferries too is aware of the destablization that occured after the QotN sinking. Abandoning routes would cause another one, and it would be unfortunate to have to not rely at all on BCF.

And if they put a guy out of business when they started the central coast route, I hope their guolt is strong enough that they won't.

Heh... previous management... that was a long time ago though It'd still look like a cheap backing-out.

[Retrovision]

admin said:

hornbyguy said:

Abandon the central coast and all the First Nations customers after what Hartley Bay did for the 'North's passengers? Hoo boy, wouldn't that look good....

They may not service Hartley Bay, but they put a guy out of business who served the coast with passenger and freight service. I forget the whole story, but when BC Ferries started their central coast route, they put him out of business. I think pulling out now would make them look pretty bad. Of course, they could always blame it (creating the route) on previous management!

lol. Did they follow W.A.C. Bennett's lead of somehow finding an excuse to utilize the Civil Defence Act?

From: www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_Social_Credit_Party

...
W.A.C. Bennett era
Running under the name British Columbia Social Credit League, the party won the largest number of seats in the 1952 provincial election under the interim leadership of the Reverend Ernest George Hansell, M.P. for the Alberta riding of Macleod since 1935. The 19 newly elected Social Credit Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLAs) chose former BC Conservative MLA W.A.C. Bennett to lead the new government over Philip Gagliardi.

Although the party was ostensibly the British Columbia wing of the Canadian social credit movement, Bennett added a mixture of populism and conservatism in the party. It became a political vehicle to unite opponents of the socialist Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, and to keep the CCF and its social democratic successor, the New Democratic Party (NDP), out of power. Bennett's Socreds took power in 1952, forming a minority government and, after changing the electoral system, swept to a majority the next year, staying in power until 1972. Bennett's party encouraged development of the economy through megaprojects and highway construction.

Despite being a free enterprise party, the Bennett government formed BC Hydro in 1961 by nationalizing the province's largest private hydroelectric concern to make sure that it could not oppose the government's hydroelectric dam construction program. It also formed the BC Ferries in 1958, and established the Bank of British Columbia, which was 25% owned by the provincial government.
...

...
In the 1996 provincial election, Social Credit lost all of its remaining seats in the legislature, and received only 0.4% of the vote. At this point, the party was largely considered a dead force in BC politics with most of its remaining members joining the socially conservative Reform Party or the centrist Liberal Party.
...

[/size][/quote]

From: www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_Liberal_Party

...
By 1993, the caucus was in open revolt against his leadership. To save the party, a leadership race was announced and Gordon Wilson ran against former party leader Gordon Gibson and Vancouver Mayor Gordon Campbell for the leadership. Campbell won, and was elected to the Legislative Assembly in a 1994 by-election. Wilson and Tyabji left the Liberals and formed their own party, the Progressive Democratic Alliance. That party fought one election (in which Wilson was the only successful candidate) before he accepted a cabinet position in the NDP government.

Campbell's Leadership in Opposition: 1994-2001
Under Gordon Campbell's leadership, and the influx of supporters of the federal Canadian Alliance and former Socreds, the BC Liberals moved to the centre-right. Supporters of the federal Liberal Party remained, and are still the majority of the provincial party
...

All Quotes:
Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA[/b]
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.
[/i][/size]

[Low Light Mike]

Tsawwassen-Terminator, you seem to enjoy drawing the link between the current BC Liberal Gov't and the Social Credit Party.

I get it, I understand it. Am I mistaken, or is this link becoming a bit obsessive?

No offense intended to you, but I wonder why you keep using this Liberal-Socred connection in your arguements? It seems to me that you see this connection as very pervasive in explaining many of the BC Ferries operating decisions.

[Retrovision]

flugelhorn said:

Tsawwassen-Terminator, you seem to enjoy drawing the link between the current BC Liberal Gov't and the Social Credit Party.

I get it, I understand it. Am I mistaken, or is this link becoming a bit obsessive?

No offense intended to you, but I wonder why you keep using this Liberal-Socred connection in your arguements? It seems to me that you see this connection as very pervasive in explaining many of the BC Ferries operating decisions.

I understand why you're wondering, Mr. Nanaimo; I would aswell in your position. Although one pattern in my mind that I particularly do not consider 'obsessive' is my many individual critisisms of our current so-called "Liberal" provincial government's many unballanced initiatives over the last half-decade or so.

The reason for the thread choice was because I (as all other British Columbians) was promised 3 newly built Northern Vessel replacements, and, as most, I expect people who I supposudly trust to not use such promises against me, to win power in this case.

I happen to believe in a little concept called 'integrity,' but I'm starting to think that it's just me. ;D

[Doug]

flugelhorn said:

Tsawwassen-Terminator, you seem to enjoy drawing the link between the current BC Liberal Gov't and the Social Credit Party.

I get it, I understand it. Am I mistaken, or is this link becoming a bit obsessive?

No offense intended to you, but I wonder why you keep using this Liberal-Socred connection in your arguements? It seems to me that you see this connection as very pervasive in explaining many of the BC Ferries operating decisions.

You think hes bad now? Talk to him on MSN.

In regards to the new ship being built at Flensburger. I find it a little funny that "old George" (as Hahn calls him) is whining again because BC Ferries isn't building this ship in BC...even though the company (WMG) clearly said it can't meet the requirements and didn't participate in the bidding process.

[Dane]

"The Chilliwack as the crumb they throw at the local shipyard" seems like the most reasonable answer... and I would think (but have no substantiation) that the Sonia will be a permanent fixture, now. She's very young; particularly on our terms.

[Neil]

The 'Province' newspaper has reported this morning that Esquimalt Shipyard's schedule shows that BC Ferries has booked the 'Sonia' in for several weeks of alterations starting in late January. BC Ferries still has not confirmed the purchase.

[Deleted]

There are a number of ship repair companies that work out of the Esquimalt dry dock. Any word on who has the contract?

[Low Light Mike]

from CKNW:,
www.cknw.com/news/news_local.cfm?cat=7428436912&rem=46338&red=80143623aPBIny&wids=410&gi=1&gm=news_local.cfm
=============================

BC Ferries deal still in the works for new vessel
Aug, 29 2006 - 9:20 AM

VANCOUVER CKNW (AM980) - BC Ferries CEO David Hahn says it's not true a deal is finally done to buy the ferry " sonia" for the North Coast run.

He also says no decision has been made to have the ship's refit done at the Esquimalt Graving Dock

Hahn tells CKNW News direct negotiations are continue with the "Sonia's" owners.

"You know, we're down to some nitty gritty stuff, feeling very confident about it but
we still are looking at bids from six different yards around the work in modifications that have to be done to the ship."

Hahn says no announcement will be made until the deal is 100 per cent done.