Interesting Websites

[Retrovision]

Don't think that I've seen this company's site Before;
I was surprised to see the variety of this company's output:

www.masamarine.com/


Also links to:

www.masamarine.com/ship_roro.html

and

www.masamarine.com/ship_fastferries.html

[NMcKay]

yeah. the lynx was refitted in Aker before being sold to Nanaimo Harbourlink Corp

[Mike C]

Speed: An exaggeration?

It says 21 knots for S class?

www.masamarine.com/lib_spirit.html

[Ferryman]

I wouldn't doubt that for a second. The Spirits have over 20,000 horsepower in them. That's 10,000 more than the C-Class, and they can get up to 22 knots or so as well, but like the S-Class, they don't.

[nolonger]

ferryman said:

I wouldn't doubt that for a second. The Spirits have over 20,000 horsepower in them. That's 10,000 more than the C-Class, and they can get up to 22 knots or so as well, but like the S-Class, they don't.

Your numbers a a bit out.
"C" Class, 11860 horsepower, Service speeds of about 19 knots.,
The Coquitlam has always been the fastest capable of about 21 knots over the ground. Alberni has managed 19.5 or so, same for the Surrey and Oak Bay. The Cowichan, 19 tops. Spirit Class are advertised at 19.5 at 21, 395 horsepower.

[Ferryman]

Really. That's interesting the Coquitlam is the fastest. However, when I was on it last month, it was doing 18.5 in mode 1 (I thought that was a bit quick for mode 1). But the crew member (On Route 3) I was talking to (who was steering the ship) said the Surrey can go a bit faster than the Coquitlam. The thing is, I can't quite remember exactly how much faster he said it was, so I'm not going to guess approximately how much faster he said it goes. But really, I thought the Alberni was the fastest, seeming it's the lightest C-Class obviously, with no Galley deck.

[Mike C]

When I was riding the SOVI back in the summertime - I remember going through Active Pass - as the Nanny was gaining on us. It never actually passed us - it had to go to Pender. But still, it just proves my point, that the Spirits are not that quick...

Also, I think we mentioned the Skeena Queen: It not being able to reach top speed due to wake problems. I was on the MQ, and we passed it. Which also proves my point--the Skeena Queen should do Quadra-Cortes, and the PRQ should do SWB-Fulford.

[Neil]

QB Teen, you must have been thinking of another route, as the Skeena Queen is far too big for Cortes Island. The current ferry, Tenaka, takes 24 cars.

[Mike C]

Sorry, I meant Campbell River-Quadra.

[nolonger]

ferryman said:

Really. That's interesting the Coquitlam is the fastest. However, when I was on it last month, it was doing 18.5 in mode 1 (I thought that was a bit quick for mode 1). But the crew member (On Route 3) I was talking to (who was steering the ship) said the Surrey can go a bit faster than the Coquitlam. The thing is, I can't quite remember exactly how much faster he said it was, so I'm not going to guess approximately how much faster he said it goes. But really, I thought the Alberni was the fastest, seeming it's the lightest C-Class obviously, with no Galley deck.

\
Mode 1 is the mode used when transiting. mode 2 is engaged for docking, and is left engaged until clear of the dock on departure and generally clear of traffic , confined areas near teminals etc. The ship is fastest in mode 1 and more manouverable in mode 2. Vessels run slower on rte 3 due to wake and wash issues around bowen, Gambier, Keats Islands. etc. The Surrey has never been faster than anything but a V class which is why she is on rte 3 as they have to run at a reduced speed anyway. The Coquitlam is a desireable vessel for rte 2 because of her speed. The Alberni is fast when running light loads but carries so much commercial traffic she is slower when loaded. Surrey and Oak Bay are the heaviest at 6969 gross tons, Coquitlam and Cowichan are 6551 gross tons and Alberni is 5863 gross tons.

[Ferryman]

Oh, ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. One more question though.

So seeming it's faster in mode 1 is for transitting, and mode 2 is for manouvering, what do you call it if the stern propellar is pushing the vessel forward, and the bow propellar is pulling at the same time? Is that what happens with the C-Class on Routes 2 and 30, or does that even happen at all? I knew the Ferries had to go slower on Route 3 between Bowen and Gambier, because they only just have the stern propellar pushing the Ferry.

Here are some pics for comparison between the Cowichan and Coquitlam....

Queen of Coquitlam bridge...(#1 at 170 rpm, #2 at 1 rpm)


Queen of Coquitlam wake...(leaving Langdale)


Queen of Cowichan wake...(leaving Horseshoe Bay)


The wake is what has made me think the bow and stern propellars are working on Route 2, and assumingly on Route 30 (by how much more white water there is).

Now I know I unqualified to know all of this, but this is just some of my observations that have been making me think lately......

[Neil]

Interesting stuff, notmuchlonger. Those of us who aren't as well versed in operations might have thought there wasn't much difference in the C's. Appreciate the info.

[nolonger]

ferryman said:

Oh, ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. One more question though.

So seeming it's faster in mode 1 is for transitting, and mode 2 is for manouvering, what do you call it if the stern propellar is pushing the vessel forward, and the bow propellar is pulling at the same time? Is that what happens with the C-Class on Routes 2 and 30, or does that even happen at all? I knew the Ferries had to go slower on Route 3 between Bowen and Gambier, because they only just have the stern propellar pushing the Ferry.

Here are some pics for comparison between the Cowichan and Coquitlam....

Queen of Coquitlam bridge...(#1 at 170 rpm, #2 at 1 rpm)


Queen of Coquitlam wake...(leaving Langdale)


Queen of Cowichan wake...(leaving Horseshoe Bay)


The wake is what has made me think the bow and stern propellars are working on Route 2, and assumingly on Route 30 (by how much more white water there is).

Now I know I unqualified to know all of this, but this is just some of my observations that have been making me think lately......

OK, Basically think of mode 1 as having 1 prop aft engaged and driven by both main engines, mode 2 is when 2 (both) props are engaged and each one driven by a single main engine. Mode one is faster because of having all power pushing the hull through the water. In mode 2, the power is split, so think of the forward end as actually operating in astern propulsion which is less efficient. Incidently, in mode 2, the forward prop can be used to both pull the vessel through the water in conjunction with the aft prop pushing, or by changing the pitch to the opposite direction, push against the aft prop thus slowing the vessel. While docking, both ends are pushing against each other and by varying the power applied and using rudder angles, well these are vary maneuverable ship which can be spun and turned within their length or can go sideways. It's this ability and power which makes the Alberni to land at Tsawwassen in high winds easier than a conventional single ender. I know this all sounds a bit convoluted and I'm not the best at putting words down, but I hope it helps to explain how it all works.

[nolonger]

BYW, if you notice how the wake of the Coquitlam leaving Langdale appears smaller than that of the Cowichan l as she heads down Howe Sound, this is because the Cow is running at full speed and the Coquitlam is not.

[Ferryman]

Alright! Thank you very much for the info, notmuchlonger, greatly appreciated. It all makes sense now, as I didn't know you could use both engines for one prop, so that's why the clutch on those engines is so complicated on the C's.

[kylefossett]

mainlander101 said:

Also, I think we mentioned the Skeena Queen: It not being able to reach top speed due to wake problems. I was on the MQ, and we passed it. Which also proves my point--the Skeena Queen should do Quadra-Cortes, and the PRQ should do SWB-Fulford.

so you want to take a 100 car ferry off of a route that needs the space and replace it with a 70 car vessel. go have another puff buddy

[Political Incorrectness]

That does not make any sense at all, first of all, Quadra to Cortes does not need that extra capacity, second, QPR is meant for running the Inside Passage and Charlottes, not SGI. Given the current situation that switch I would consider is not going to happen ever.

[ferrytraveller]

no i think Queen of Burnaby Teen means switch the Powell River Queen with the Skeena not the Queen of Prince Rupert

[Political Incorrectness]

Either way, it would not make sense.

[ferrytraveller]

yah i do argree with you on that

[Mike C]

But this way, the handicapped people travelling between Campbell River and Quadra will get the satisfaction of not having to climb stairs on the Skeena Queen. And the people on Saltspring will get the satisfaction of having a larger waiting room on the PRQ.

[Political Incorrectness]

It is only benefiting a few and it is not worth to switch it around. PRQ is a smaller vessel than the Skeena Queen, passenger area does not matter on the Campbell route cause it is only a ten minute crossing.

[Mike C]

ferrymaniac101 said:

passenger area does not matter on the Campbell route cause it is only a ten minute crossing.

NO KIDDING!!

I said the Fulford route. Also they have a chance of re-opening the snack bar service on the PRQ.

I've been on both routes.

My experience on the Skeena: I was NOT satisfied with the lack of space in the waiting room, for a 35 minute crossing.

My experience on the PRQ: After I had climbed up to the waiting room, we had arrived in Quathiaski Cove. I thought it was a huge waste to put a ferry with such a large waiting room be on such a small and unpopulated route. But the ferry was full with cars.

Also, I'm getting pretty tired of the whiners on Quadra crying like little children about the loss of their silly car deck seating. Apparently it means a lot to them. WHO IN THE RIGHT OF MIND WOULD PUT UNDERCOVER SEATING ON THE CAR DECK ANYWAY!!?? This would solve their stupid problem.

[Curtis]

Yeah the route is only like 10 minutes but ever notice it can take longer to load than to cross on that route so the seating area doesn't sound like a bad Idea. But what they need is either elevators or the Skeena Queen

[Mike C]

prqueenkid16 said:

But what they need is either elevators or the Skeena Queen

WHICH IS EXACTLY MY POINT!!! THEY WANT AND NEED THE SKEENA QUEEN!!!!! Or the Quinsam will do.