Koastal Karl
Voyager 
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 14, 2005 8:16:54 GMT -8
Yup, I agree!
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Post by cascade on Jul 15, 2005 7:18:38 GMT -8
Forget the bloody bridge idea - open up the market - terminals to other ferry operators and lets see what happens in the commercial market.
It happen in the airline business - so why not on the water?
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 15, 2005 8:47:25 GMT -8
cascade it does happen there are 3 different ferry operators on Dover-Calais and some routes have 2 so it isn't a monopoly yet but as traffic grows I think it will turn into one
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Post by cascade on Jul 15, 2005 9:02:47 GMT -8
Dan,
In Europe there is an open commercial Policy through out Europe. I am talking about opening up the market on the West Coast of BC.
There is somewhere around 350 to 400 Ferry companies working in and around Europe. How many on the West Coast of North American ?
It is the same with the Airlines - open Sky policy and terminals - so again why not a open / commercial market in BC?
Dan - you may not know this - but that is how I make my living arranging / agreeing Finance for Ferry companies in Europe - I work for a few leading Banks.
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Post by NMcKay on Jul 15, 2005 9:09:06 GMT -8
West coast of North America? Probably 50...Max
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Post by hergfest on Jul 15, 2005 9:29:05 GMT -8
The problem is that ferry service on the West Coast, for the most part, isn't a profitable business. That is why BC Ferries has been trying to get rid of some of it's most non-profitable routes. I don't see it happening without government subsidies to the private company's. I know WSF has an 80-85% payback from fares and concessions on the boats. The other 15-20% is paid by the state.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 15, 2005 11:03:38 GMT -8
Dan, In Europe there is an open commercial Policy through out Europe. I am talking about opening up the market on the West Coast of BC. There is somewhere around 350 to 400 Ferry companies working in and around Europe. How many on the West Coast of North American ? It is the same with the Airlines - open Sky policy and terminals - so again why not a open / commercial market in BC? there currently isn't a need here in North America until 10 years from now |
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Post by Alex on Jul 15, 2005 14:22:37 GMT -8
It is the same with the Airlines - open Sky policy and terminals - so again why not a open / commercial market in BC? I'd prefer not to pay huge fees and be crammed in like sardines on a ferry, like they do on the airlines. |
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Post by Curtis on Jul 15, 2005 14:24:11 GMT -8
That would suck
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jul 15, 2005 16:13:47 GMT -8
Loading three or four decks with a single ramp is just plain stupid if you ask me. If WSF and SIF starts using three car decks, they will use our system. I even think there's a couple ferries in eastern Canada that uses it (or used to, before the Confederartion Bridge was built).
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 15, 2005 17:05:04 GMT -8
probably
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Post by cascade on Jul 18, 2005 9:34:21 GMT -8
So what is the problem in opening up the market - like they did for the LCC - Low Cost Airline Model. They have done it in road transport and in Flying - so why not for transport across water - what is the big difference?
You will soon see that people vote very much if they have a choice with there feet and walk to the operator offering the best service for the best price.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 18, 2005 10:25:04 GMT -8
there is no need to get a second operator yet
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Post by cascade on Jul 18, 2005 10:37:01 GMT -8
I am not so sure. BC Ferries has 22m people using it. There is only 4.2M people living in BC - so I firmly believe there is room for a second or third operator on the Coast. They go after far less numbers in Europe - not just the cross channel stuff either. There is really very little numbers of people using the France - UK ferry service, but they have over 6 different companies going after the business. Based on the figures that BC Ferries handles 22M passengers 8M cars which about 60% of that comes from the 5 main terminals - then I really do believe there is room - massive amounts of room .... let's open it up and see what happens - it could not be worst than what it has been for the last 15 years - can it?
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 18, 2005 10:38:33 GMT -8
well cross channel operators have more lorries and have more cars and less walk on passengers
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Post by cascade on Jul 18, 2005 10:45:40 GMT -8
Part of that is true - so why don't BC Ferries want to carry more commercial trucks - why the problems with Livestock?
Why don't BC Ferries - a few years back open up terminals purely for Commercial trucks and oversize vehicles - there appears to be a good market in them?
More profit is made on car's and passenger than on trucks - as the shipping / transport companies block book a crossing - hence they get a good discount. So profit is with the car user in crossing from France or other countries into the UK.
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Post by Alex on Jul 18, 2005 11:50:31 GMT -8
Part of that is true - so why don't BC Ferries want to carry more commercial trucks - why the problems with Livestock? Why don't BC Ferries - a few years back open up terminals purely for Commercial trucks and oversize vehicles - there appears to be a good market in them? Because they'd be giving up potential business to other companies. I don't see the need to have tons of different companies all vieing for traffic. I could see it easily becoming oversaturated with too many companies serving too few passengers, just like what happened in the airlines. We used to have a bunch of big airlines in Canada, and now Air Canada is on the rocks. A big open market isn't the fantastic thing you make it out to be. It's not like you're going to see prices cut in half or anything. If anything, prices will probably go up, because the subsidies will all be gone. |
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 18, 2005 11:53:23 GMT -8
The three major airlines in Canada now are Air Canada, WestJet, and Canjet which is now expanding! Ever since Jetsgo seized operations!
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Post by cascade on Jul 18, 2005 12:03:03 GMT -8
Open Market policy isn't that what America is suppose to be all about ? What is Canada - a closed market ?
The strong - well though business model that offers a good service to it's customer base - will survive - which in the end is good for the customer - you - don't you agree?
Has the open market principle reduced the air fares and allowed people to travel ? OK some offered crap services and where are they now?
For people on this forum - having a greater choice of a ferry service - I for one would have though you and most people on the forum would be jumping for joy - instead you seem to want to close the door - and live in your little world - where the government looks after you - shutting out the big wide world. Have you ever traveled outside of BC - and seen what else there is?
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Post by Ian on Jul 18, 2005 17:29:18 GMT -8
Truthfully, I would like to see a competitor against BC FERRIES so that BC FERRIES will improve to get people on their ships.
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Post by Ian on Jul 18, 2005 17:29:40 GMT -8
Which will also help lower prices.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 18, 2005 17:30:25 GMT -8
That would work out really well
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Post by kylefossett on Jul 18, 2005 18:07:00 GMT -8
there is already an open market on commercial vehicle transport. seaspan carries commercial vehicles back and forth.
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Post by Quinsam on Jul 18, 2005 21:01:02 GMT -8
Speaking of Seaspan, I wonder if the Pacificats will be sailing with Seaspan soon.
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Post by cascade on Jul 21, 2005 7:46:57 GMT -8
So the last couple of people seem to agree that some sort of open market policy would be an good idea for the BC Coastal ferry service.
The next problem is that the current & past governments don't seem to want this to happen - why not?
There is no level playing field for any operator to enter the ferry business here on the coast.
Seaspan - VERY LIMITED - commercial truck crossing - nothing for cars & foot passengers?
Yes we do have - again - very limited - foot passenger service - Harbourlynx - BUT we need more - not less and ones that take cars also.
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