It never fails

[Ian]

Wouldn't that be funny if the pacificats got dock time at tswassen but bc ferries filled up all the docks, berth 1 bowen queen, 2 queen of nanaimo, 3 queen of alberni, 4 queen of vancouver, 5 sobc.

[Political Incorrectness]

that would be funny but then remember some of the people worked on the pcats could block off Tsawwassen for no darn reason like the French block off Calais. then we could have some trouble but if that were to happen I would just run them over cause they are blocking the road way because it isn't "fair competition" if that was the case then tell them get the hell out of the ferry buisness

[cascade]

It was the farmers who blocked the Port of Calais - as they didn't want British Beef into France. If this happen on the UK side - I can tell you that the police would move them and charge the farmers or who ever - even jail term. In France - the police just stand around and watch. Many British truckers lost a lot of money and some even committed suicide because of the lost revenue.

We have been at war with the French for years - like a few hundred. Should have seen the newspapers when we won the Olympics and not France - Paris - they claimed that we cheated.

So the Cat's return with roads & Terminals blocked - dream on.. This isn't France.. at lease I hope not..

[Balfour]

Dam french. They come into Quebec and they make us learn their stupid language. They're so arrogant.

[cascade]

Yes your correct. I had 12 years of French at school - as soon as I got to France - what they teach you in BC is nothing to what they think of us in France.

The British really do not like the French - we have many problems with them in the EU and cross boarder trade.

We don't do any Financing with them - only really deal with the Spanish, Italian, and (yes) Norwegians.. plus a few smaller European countries. The Germans are also problems - but now they have massive unemployment issue to deal with - so are careful in what they say against the English - as we are little bit richer- currently - than them.

[YZFNick]

Cascade

Is there still a large economic difference in Germany between the regions that were formerly West and East Germany? I saw a program on the CBC about how the rich west resents proping up the poor east and some people were even discussing splitting the country up again.

[Political Incorrectness]

that must suck having to learn french I hate the french for being so arragant for one mistake you make in their language they get all hyped up about it don't they?

[cascade]

Nick,

There is a massive difference between the two - East & West. The Old East had crap factories ect... so they got knocked down - large re-building program - now there is - in some parts only - brand new factories which are very good - and the West - well they haven't got the investment - as it went into the Old East Germany.

The main problem they have now is the Unions - labour issues. The biggest Unions can bring down governments - membership is around 4M in each union. The ave pop of Germany is around 60M. They don't really own there own houses and pay a lot with cash - very little take up on credit cards. The Banks control most of the major business - even shipyards where the new BC Ferries are been built. This ship yard is in the hands for PR reason - private family - but actual shareholders the main one is a Bank - which is how BC Ferries got such a good deal on the Finance of the Ferries.

Bush - complained that France & Germany were the "old" Europe and Spain & UK were the face of the new Europe - which he could do business with. Hence one of the reason why Spain got a bomb and now us here in London. Nothing in Germany or France.

I guess the biggest thing you notice is the Housing between the East & West. The west had small nice houses where as the East had the old State housing system tower blocks all near factories. Lot's of country side - but that was for the Leaders ect...

I think there could be major problems in Germany - as they imported from around the late 70's until now a lot of "cheap" labour from Turkey. Now the average German worker is without a job and the man on the street who has a job - is Turkish and Muslim - power keg ready to blow up. The Germans are very much like they were back in the 1930's - for younger members I would ask your grandparents - they will tell you what I mean.

You may ask why Turkish labour - well a few years back - many years - Germany ruled Turkey. One reason for the First World War.... Students time to read about European History....

[Doug]

I thought Germany was a lot higher in technology than the rest of the European countries....

[Political Incorrectness]

they are they were the ones who built the mag lev trains the fastest in the world today

[cascade]

Doug,

In Europe - per say - on Tech stuff, the Germans are way behind everyone else. In the mobile market - users ect.. the Scandinavian Countries lead the way with the UK second. In PC / Laptop - Internet usage - then it is the UK.

In usage of credit cards ect... it is the UK then Spain and then Italy. So if you going to try and sell something - like book a ferry trip or flight then you will have better luck in the UK - then Spain - then Italy.

Germany has 10% plus unemployment right now and the highest labour reg's in the World. There are major problems with the German economy also - plus France is in trouble. Both of these two countries have very protective laws to stop outside investment - take overs - BUT allow German & French companies to pile up debt and purchase other European companies.

Another interesting point for this forum - is that the Shipyard where the new ferries are been built - yes it is German, but the front - PR side of the business show that a family as the owners - this is partly correct, but the biggest shareholder is a German Bank - hence how BC Ferries got such a good deal. They put down only 20% and the other 80% is paid on delivery to BC. So you may ask how does a shipyard fund this investment ? Well it is by there largest shareholder - a Bank.

[cascade]

Dan,

The French trains are better and they work. The German ones you talked about - are OK to a point.

Part of the problem the Ferry companies are now having is the cross channel car/train setup. The Trains on the French side are very good - lot's of State investment - while the stuff on the UK side are not finished and slower.
Now a Frenchman is in charge at the EuroTunnel - they have dropped the price to meet head on with the Ferries on cross channel trade. So far OK - then - but you also know that the French government are major shareholders in a Ferry company - so they don't really care what the price is for crossing - as they make the money on the toll for the motorway - food ect... and they have no mandate on profit for the ferry company.

Lot's of politics at play here. Britain against the French.

[Fenklebaum]

You know... you might want to reconsider what you say about the french here. How do you know that someone here isn't french? Don't you think they might take offense at being called arrogant for speaking their language? Hm?

Darn those Quebequois for *being there first*, eh? Yep, seeing as how they were conquered by the british, they should've just abandoned their culture, huh?

Were I to guess, I'd bet (in the unlikely event that there's a french person here, of course) that they'd say something along the lines of, oh...

ESPÈCE DE CRETIN!!!!!

[cascade]

Well we "British" (I carry two passports) don't really like or trust the French. We like to travel to there country and eat there food and look at there ladies - and even buy a few of there old houses - as they are so cheap - compared to the UK.

In return the French don't travel to England - they hate are food - but love our beef and beer. We beat them at Rugby and have won the Olympics. There Football team won the world cup and the European cup - but most of them now play in England as we pay them better. I may also add they pay less tax while living in England than they would if living in France.

I don't think the average Canadian - my age really likes the French that much - at least the people from the West Coast - only a few of them live back east - but force us to learn a second language - and cost us money as we need to print packaging in two languages instead of having more market spin on the package.....

So ....your ....call.... are you French and do you love yourself - (No right handed jokes please...)

[Fenklebaum]

But that's just it, right there. The British and the French have had a long standing feud which borders on the ridiculous. If they choose not to undertake and traverse the chunnel, so be it. You've built a magnificent country for yourselves - England. If they want to come there for your beer and for your football, isn't that then a testament to your country in and of itself?

The mentality of the "Average Canadian" being anglo-saxon has got to end. It should've ended in the 1970's, but it didn't. It's still a 'them and us' mentality as opposed to being an 'us' mentality. We're all Canadians, whether we speak French, English or Cree. All of us. And I don't believe for one second that not all that many people like the French all that much, at least out here. If you've heard that, maybe you're not venturing out into the more plural areas of Canada. If that's the case, I'd suggest you do and consider re-evaluating your opinion.

Oh, and as for your complaint about the government forcing you to learn another language. I'm going to quote Dr. Evil here and say "BOO FRICKEDY HOO!!". Good grief, man, it's not being tied to a ball and chain! Every school, no matter where you go (with the possible exception of the US - I'm not all that up on their educational system) there is a second language requirement of some sort. It used to be Latin here AND in England (I don't know if it still is). Now I'm sure folks bitched about that too, back in the day. "Oh, we'll never use it, it's not important", they said. You know what? They were probably right. So they teach French. A language spoken by millions upon millions of people. The OLYMPIC language (I had to rub that one in your nose, mate). A language that IS COMPLETELY PRACTICAL AND USEFUL IN A MULTILINGUAL SOCIETY. Just try going to Quèbec. Then you'll understand why they teach French. My lord. It's that kind of linguistic chauvinism that leads to ignorance.

In answer to your question: No. I'm not French. I'm not Quèbequois by birth. I am in spirit. I learned French at the same time I learned English. I'm a fully bilingual, CANADIAN. And quite frankly, some of the ideas and attitutes that you're aspousing, Cascade, belong to the last century.

[cascade]

Fenklebaum,

Good to see your on form - would have been upset if not. I would have prefer more of a rant.

I guess my views are from the 70's as that was when I was in Sidney. Interesting - one of my school jobs was working in Safeways - and guess what I did - yes - turn around the cans and jars so that English was showing not French. Do you remember when someone - not me - blew up the transmitter mast - for CBC French language program. (This happen in Vancouver) The federal government want everyone in the 1970's to learn another language and French then became the second official language of Canada. The Western Provinces were not that keen. A lot of them only put it on the school lesson after a few court cases came about. (My mother was a school teacher)

So here I am working Europe and speaking a few languages - big change from a poor little kid from the west Coast of Canada. My views on France are what I find in the normal business working life over here - a little bit different than what seems to be the view in Canada.

Strong Skier seems to think we still have soccer hooligans here in the UK - but that ended about 10 years ago - but I guess the perceived view hasn't changed or the pony express is still to get through with the latest news about our soccer thugs - or lack of.

Please don't lose your unique views on all subjects - not just a few ferries.....

[Fenklebaum]

*grins a broad grin* No worries, my dear fellow.

Trudeau did indeed piss off quite a few folks with bilingualism. But that's just it! People weren't being *forced* to USE French. Schools simply began teaching french as a standard language requirement, which isn't really the end of the world. We still have plenty of folks who don't speak a lick of French. And things have worked out just fine. I'm sorry. I'm just sick of ignorance. It's really getting to me.

As for the Western Provinces not being all that keen... well, the western provinces of Canada aren't exactly a hotbed for the intelligencia, shall we say.

[Fenklebaum]

Just to clarify: I wasn't labelling you as ignorant. I'm just sick of it in general.

[Doug]

The federal government should keep us separated. The French don't have to learn English. They don't have to read English on the reverse side of all their products every day of the week, every week of the year and for every year for their life. The federal government pays no attention to the West. It's all east. Now if that were Conservatives it would be a little different but those Liberals are all idiots. They seem to only take action in worse-case scenarios for the West. They never helped with our forest fires, they never help with strikes even though we are asking for assistance. I'm actually surprised we have some of the navy out here, surprised they aren't all sitting out guarding Quebec.

[Balfour]

Yeah well the Liberals are corrupt.

[Fenklebaum]

Do you even hear what you're saying? Clearly you have no idea of the history of Canada, sir.

Learning English is something that many, MANY Quebeqois undertake nowadays. They're far less linguistically chauvinistic than English speaking Canadians are.

As for your comments on the Federal Government being East-centric: Good Grief. I'm sorry, but while there is a small degree of truth to that statement, it's hardly the issue that it's made out to be. Part of the problem is that the majority of MP's who represent western Canada in Ottawa are... Conservative.

I'll agree that the Liberals are corrupt. They ARE. But they're the lesser of two evils. I'm sorry, but I will never buy into a party whose grassroots are neo-conservative fundamentalists. Family values mean different things to different people. We live in a plural society, and unfortunately for a whole bunch of religious yahoos out there, a plural society is incompatible with legislated morality and Christian based laws.

I'm sorry, but I really do have to say this. Mr. Ubell, your statements regarding your surprise at the navy not entirely "guarding Quebec" do suggest that you have certain redneckish qualities. I await your rebuttal.

[BrianWilliams]

Before BC became a part of Canada, several projects were proposed to induce the colony to join.

The best was a RR line to the head of Bute Inlet, then carved on the bluffs for 80 miles down to a bridgehead leaping to Maurelle, Quadra and Vancouver Islands.

That is still possible today, and as a highway link would look much like the Deception Pass bridges in Washington State.

But, what's the point? The Coast Mountain highway pass would be over 6,000 feet, in the heaviest snow zone in Canada. The last town would be Lillooet or Pemberton, a hundred kms from the coast, neither easily reached in bad weather from a major highway.

South of Quadra Island, there are no possible bridge links across the Strait of Georgia. We can't float, span or tunnel the 20+ miles of our deep inland sea.

Not at a reasonable cost, anyway. Japan in the 1970's tied their southern islands into the national RR system at enormous expense.

I drove the 22-mile Chesapeake Bay bridge-tunnel highway a few years ago. Thrilling! On an October day, we left Chincoteague, VA under a cloudy morning sky and drove straight into an Atlantic gale at Cape Charles.

10 minutes later, we were literally at sea on the concrete trestle. Green water was breaking over the highway. It was closed to trucks that day due to the weather. Wipers on double-speed, white knuckles on the wheel of our rented Chevy, I gave up my plan of stopping for a photo.

We dove through the two tunnels under the shipping lanes and endured the long haul to Newport News.

The only reason they built that stupid, costly link is the USN base at Hampton Roads.

And that's an easy build over tidal sands.

No bridge to VI, I say, for all the right reasons: economic, social and environmental.

[nolonger]

What's all this got to do with B.C. Ferries?

[Doug]

I'm sorry you feel offended Fenklebaum but many people in Western Canada share my views toward the French. No, I am not a redneck. I just ask the gov't one simple request: keep us separated and we will all be happy. But no, our government would never do that because they're Liberals. Liberals are basically controlled by the French. If you want to talk about West vs East, I suggest you become a member at another board that is devoted to that sort of thing but this is WAY off the topic here.

[Doug]

brianwilliams said:

Before BC became a part of Canada, several projects were proposed to induce the colony to join.

The best was a RR line to the head of Bute Inlet, then carved on the bluffs for 80 miles down to a bridgehead leaping to Maurelle, Quadra and Vancouver Islands.

That is still possible today, and as a highway link would look much like the Deception Pass bridges in Washington State.

But, what's the point? The Coast Mountain highway pass would be over 6,000 feet, in the heaviest snow zone in Canada. The last town would be Lillooet or Pemberton, a hundred kms from the coast, neither easily reached in bad weather from a major highway.

South of Quadra Island, there are no possible bridge links across the Strait of Georgia. We can't float, span or tunnel the 20+ miles of our deep inland sea.

Not at a reasonable cost, anyway. Japan in the 1970's tied their southern islands into the national RR system at enormous expense.

I drove the 22-mile Chesapeake Bay bridge-tunnel highway a few years ago. Thrilling! On an October day, we left Chincoteague, VA under a cloudy morning sky and drove straight into an Atlantic gale at Cape Charles.

10 minutes later, we were literally at sea on the concrete trestle. Green water was breaking over the highway. It was closed to trucks that day due to the weather. Wipers on double-speed, white knuckles on the wheel of our rented Chevy, I gave up my plan of stopping for a photo.

We dove through the two tunnels under the shipping lanes and endured the long haul to Newport News.

The only reason they built that stupid, costly link is the USN base at Hampton Roads.

And that's an easy build over tidal sands.

No bridge to VI, I say, for all the right reasons: economic, social and environmental.

You forgot one reason: it's impossible.