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Post by princessofvanfan on Aug 6, 2009 16:14:50 GMT -8
I'm just glad the damn things are gone. I went on one once-and ONLY once-and that was enough for me. I could not believe how awful they were-from a passenger's perspective. Everything about the interior seemed to be poorly or incorrectly designed, and that outer deck! Good riddance.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 6, 2009 16:54:34 GMT -8
I'm just glad the damn things are gone. I went on one once-and ONLY once-and that was enough for me. I could not believe how awful they were-from a passenger's perspective. Everything about the interior seemed to be poorly or incorrectly designed, and that outer deck! Good riddance. I wonder if people are forgetting that fast-ferries, by their nature, are meant to be more cramped and less move-around-friendly than a conventional ferry. I also wonder if that point was adequately made on the users and stakeholders back when the fastcats were in-service? ie. It seems that the fact that these are special high-speed craft with different safety regulations and a serious weight-limit constraints was lost on many users and stakeholders. I remember the tourism people complaining that there wouldn't be brochure-racks on the ships. Well, didn't they know that space would be constrained? It seems like people didn't appreciate the fact that the fast-cats were not conventional ferries. ie. they were different ships with different regulations and different constraints. The users kept on expecting all the C-Class amenities and experience to also be on the fast-cats. They needed to realize that it was supposed to be more like an airplane than the old familiar ferry riding experiences.
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Post by Scott on Aug 6, 2009 20:36:39 GMT -8
They needed to realize that it was supposed to be more like an airplane than the old familiar ferry riding experiences. Good points, Flugel. However we were told that this was the price to pay for a quicker trip ("more like an airplane")... and in most cases, it was not a quicker trip, or only very barely.
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Post by Scott on Aug 6, 2009 20:44:04 GMT -8
Quote from Ms. Montgomery communities.canada.com/theprovince/blogs/onthewaterfront/archive/2009/07/27/the-fast-ferry-sale-part-one.aspxThink about it: Decent gearboxes. Decent Gen Sets with low hours. Twelve high-speed, military-grade engines that aren't being made any more but are still valuable in lots of ways. Four of them are virtually new. All are in working order. Suddenly, the deal makes sense. The deal, in fact, looks brilliant. Engines are really expensive, and given the hours on them, these are as near to new as you can get. Why, if the information we have heard about the sale is true, would the buyer be transporting the entire ships to Abu Dhabi via deep-sea lift vessels if they were just bought for the engines and parts? That's way too much expense for parts, isn't it? P.S. I looked up a fairly famous heavy-lift operation from the year 2000 when the Blue Marlin carried the USS Cole from the Middle East to the USA. At least one source put the contract for that operation at US$4.5 million. That was 9 years ago, albeit for a larger ship.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Aug 7, 2009 2:45:29 GMT -8
They were a huge waste of money, and they really sucked.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Aug 7, 2009 3:30:37 GMT -8
They were a huge waste of money, and they really sucked. Sure they did, they were propelled by water jets...that is, of course, if there wasn't a log stuck in the intakes... ;D
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 7, 2009 6:00:35 GMT -8
They were a huge waste of money, and they really sucked. Your post will be eligible for bonus-points if you explain "why" for each of the 2 parts of your post. ;D
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Post by fairwinds on Aug 7, 2009 9:32:57 GMT -8
Interesting point, Mr. Keenleyside. Is it possible that the Washington yard said something like: If you want them, take them as is? WMG isn't a scrapyard and it would be stuck with the job of scrapping the aluminum if the buyer came and took out just the bits it wanted. I can't find a market for that kind of aluminum here, so where are you thinking WMG would unload the hulls? Just curious, since there is a market elsewhere in the world.
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Post by lmtengs on Aug 15, 2009 17:51:56 GMT -8
Someone has posted the majority of the Building of Pacificat 1000 on Youtube. It is seperated into six parts... The Libs should never have sold the Cats. So majestic looking. The new superC's just dont match up. Good luck to our kittens, wherever they stray!!! P.S: regarding the photo gallery posted earlier in the forum which had some photos of the Garibaldi II, that got me wondering, whatever happened to her? (http://www.pbase.com/portwelland/ferries)
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Post by badoo on Aug 16, 2009 1:22:38 GMT -8
Perhaps some though should be given to an EVP who spent considerable time over there onve business in Germany was done.... and a member of said EVPs so called "Core Crew" who left the employ of BCF to take a position with Abu Dhabi Mar. (Little fuel for the fire for my first post )
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 16, 2009 6:34:14 GMT -8
Perhaps some though should be given to an EVP who spent considerable time over there onve business in Germany was done.... and a member of said EVPs so called "Core Crew" who left the employ of BCF to take a position with Abu Dhabi Mar. (Little fuel for the fire for my first post ) Welcome aboard, Mr. Vivaldi. ps: EVP = Executive Vice President.
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Post by plansea on Aug 16, 2009 9:52:37 GMT -8
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Quatchi
Voyager
Engineering Officer - CCG
Posts: 930
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Post by Quatchi on Aug 16, 2009 10:09:53 GMT -8
If this is true SSSSWWWWEEEEETTTTTT!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 16, 2009 20:39:35 GMT -8
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Post by badoo on Aug 16, 2009 22:21:00 GMT -8
Perhaps some though should be given to an EVP who spent considerable time over there onve business in Germany was done.... and a member of said EVPs so called "Core Crew" who left the employ of BCF to take a position with Abu Dhabi Mar. (Little fuel for the fire for my first post ) Welcome aboard, Mr. Vivaldi. ps: EVP = Executive Vice President. I know I am missing the obvious.... Vivaldi ? (and thank ya, good to be here.... I think )
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 17, 2009 6:20:25 GMT -8
Welcome aboard, Mr. Vivaldi. ps: EVP = Executive Vice President. I know I am missing the obvious.... Vivaldi ? (and thank ya, good to be here.... I think ) Someone posted something similar about the same BCFS manager, on the Christina Montgomery Province-blog, using Vivaldi as a posting-name. I assumed that you were the same person. And it is good to have you here.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Aug 17, 2009 7:32:39 GMT -8
Good on the reporter for the crow eating. Many just allow their previous inaccurate or speculation to hang and just not be mentioned.
PKs comment too is well taken. Reporters are there to deliver the "news." You can't control what they decide to take an interest in, and you certainly can't control what angle they take. PR is all about making it easy for reporters to follow what you want them to say. But a good PR plan also anticipates the reporter taking a tack you don't want them to take. And once you are on the reporters radar you have to be wary.
In recent years an analysis of rogue charities, mentioned a well known and solid charity. However, how and where it was mentioned, left the public in some doubt as to that charity. Nothing so blatant that legal action could be taken, but it left open ended questions in the publics mind. Questions like that stop people from donating. That charity rightly decided to offset the negative by a positive media campaign. All had wished they didn't need to take the step of the unplanned expense. Ironic that the reporter was taking to task charities for overhead and then caused another charity to have to spend unnecessary money by their backhanded subtle slap.
From all I know about ship conversions the CATS were just wrong in so many ways. Possible, but impractical and not in keeping with the ones that are being done. (As an asside yet another retired Canadian Coast Guard vessel is going for conversion, joining Bart Roberts as another explorer yacht.) The hulls of the military vessels being converted were very valuable and the perfect form for fast deep sea travel.
And as pointed out by various forum members, the parts would be much cheaper shipped in pieces rather than using Seawise type ships to piggy back the whole ferries to the gulf or whatever facilility will do the work.
Depending on which part of the public that is going to be using the ferries, will depend on the level of refit that takes place. Mould and general dirt is very easy to deal with and certainly the dessert conditions and heat in the area will take care of a certain amount. For example, if the target audience will be the very large migrant and foreign population who work in the construction and service industry in the UAE, the refit will be nice but much more straightforward and less luxurious. Similar to what it already is but brought up to date. If it is for everyday nationals or tourists, then it will probably have more bling. I don't see wealthy nationals taking the service. You would fly by scheduled helicopter or plane, or have your driver take you. When you can drive 100mph, you can get places pretty quickly. So the refit is unlikely to be at the height of luxury.
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Post by fairwinds on Aug 19, 2009 15:09:20 GMT -8
Anyone interested in watching the first of the fast cats sail away should head down to Deep Cove in North Van Saturday. Lift begins about 9, lasts about four hours. Pacific Northwest is doing the loading, should be one of the few times you can see the lift vessel lower and a boat be sailed on and drydocked. It all depends on good weather and slack surface but that's how it's booked right now.
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Post by Balfour on Aug 19, 2009 15:26:55 GMT -8
Anyone interested in watching the first of the fast cats sail away should head down to Deep Cove in North Van Saturday. Lift begins about 9, lasts about four hours. Pacific Northwest is doing the loading, should be one of the few times you can see the lift vessel lower and a boat be sailed on and drydocked. It all depends on good weather and slack surface but that's how it's booked right now. Are you sure this is happening near Deep Cove? It would make more sense to me for them to do it close to Pier 94...
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Post by Dane on Aug 19, 2009 15:49:37 GMT -8
Traditionally when the vessel carrying vessels come to unload in Vancouver it is done in Deep Cove, but most of the boats they're carrying would fit in the Pacificat's car deck.
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Post by fairwinds on Aug 19, 2009 16:44:58 GMT -8
Nope, it's Deep Cove, right where they load on the big yachts when they go out. They need really smooth water to do the big ferries, so they move up the inlet. The good view of the whole load will be from up on Quarry Rock above the cove, that's where you can always see best, if you want to watch the cat floated on board. And there would still be time to hop down and watch her sail out.
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Post by fairwinds on Aug 19, 2009 16:48:07 GMT -8
You should rent a boat at Horseshoe Bay and ride down for a closeup view. Just check the tide for getting back. Lots and lots of little spots along the shoreline there in the cove to tuck in.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,185
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Post by Neil on Aug 19, 2009 16:51:37 GMT -8
Let's not miss the main part of this story, which is, that after all the certainty expressed by some folks that these boats were useless, ill-designed, and good for nothing other than recycling into cat food cans, they are going to be refurbished and used for exactly the same purpose they were built.
Now, we will finally be able to ignore the bluster and political nonsense and see just what these boats could have been, given a proper trial and time frame. To everyone who figured the history book entry on the fastcats was written in stone, think again.
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Post by Dane on Aug 19, 2009 17:33:54 GMT -8
Access to Quarry Rock:
Take Dollarton Highway or Mt Seymour Prwky to Deep Cove Road, continue to road's end and park or turn left at Panorama Drive. The trail head is at roughly the 6000 block. Anyone will be able to point it out if they've lived in the Cove for more than three minutes, but it's pronounced "Corey" generally.
There is also a float at the end of Panorama Drive that will usually allow access.
Boating from HSB would be really expensive, albeit it fun.
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Post by fairwinds on Aug 19, 2009 17:49:54 GMT -8
I work on the waterfront, we're all talking about it. They go up to the cove to get glassy surface, once the ferry slides in they need dead calm with the heavy-lift weighted below it, that's the reason.
Here's a story from the paper:
Final voyage from B.C. for fast ferries By Frank Luba, The Province August 19, 2009 6:34 PM
Anyone who wants to say farewell to one of B.C.’s infamous fast ferries should head for Deep Cove in North Vancouver Saturday morning.
The first of the three PacifiCats bought by Abu Dhabi Mar, a United Arab Emirates company that builds yachts and remodels vessels, will be brought to Deep Cove for loading onto a heavy-lift vessel for transport across the Pacific Ocean to Abu Dhabi.
John Mears’ Pacific Northwest Ship and Cargo Services is acting as agent for Dockwise Yacht Transport, which arranged to transport the “fast cat” on the cargo ship Swift for Abu Dhabi Mar.
“We’re just loading it,” said Mears, who lives in Deep Cove and has previously used the scenic harbor to load yachts for transport.
“We need flat, flat water because those cats are very buoyant,” Mears explained.
The Swift, which has a dead weight tonnage (or cargo capacity) of 32,600 tonnes, will first take on water and sink deep enough for the 1,500-tonne catamaran to float aboard. Mears said that it’s crucial there be no movement under the vessels as the cat is brought aboard the Swift.
The water will then be pumped out and the PacifiCat secured, much as it would be in a drydock. Mears said there would be two to three metres between the end of the ferry and the Swift’s structure.
The heavy-lift ship has hauled longer vessels, carrying them at an angle, he said.
The process will begin at about 9 a.m. and the ferry should be loaded by about 1 p.m. The move will be visible from shore, but the best view can be had from Quarry Rock, a lookout point on the Baden-Powell Trail about an hour’s hike from Deep Cove.
The fast ferries were built by B.C.’s then-NDP government at a budgeted cost of $210 million and an eventual cost of $450 million. They contributed to the collapse of then-premier Glen Clark’s political career and helped sink the provincial hopes of his his successor, Ujjal Dosanjh.
Gordon Campbell and his Liberals swept to power in the wake of the PacifiCat mess. They mothballed the ships before putting them up for auction, with the Washington Marine Group paying just $19.8 million for the vessels they had been a major partner in building.
The remaining two ferries will be sent to Abu Dhabi in the fall aboard the Swift and its sister vessel.
fluba@theprovince.com
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