MV Coho

[EGfleet]

Hey cool, that's just down the road.
I'll be sure to get some photos of her at DCI.

[lmtengs]

Who replaces the Coho when she's in refit? Do they use a spare Washington State Ferry?

[whidbeyislandguy]

Jan 23, 2010 13:28:39 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

Who replaces the Coho when she's in refit? Do they use a spare Washington State Ferry?

Nothing does, the run is closed for 2 weeks. And she is not a washington state ferry. she is a Black Ball ferry...........

[lmtengs]

Jan 23, 2010 13:35:12 GMT -8 @whidbeyislandguy said:

Jan 23, 2010 13:28:39 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

Who replaces the Coho when she's in refit? Do they use a spare Washington State Ferry?

Nothing does, the run is closed for 2 weeks. And she is not a washington state ferry. she is a Black Ball ferry...........

Yes, I know she is a Black Ball Ferry. That's why I specified that she would be replaced by a Washington State Ferry. If I had thought she was a WSF herself, then I wouldn't have mentioned the company of ferry that would be replacing her. I was sort of thinking that the Black Ball's Coho could be replaced by some WSF Ship, the way that Translink's Albion Ferries were replaced by the BC Ferries' Klitsa when they were in refit.

So... Why doesn't Black Ball replace her? What do regular vehicle passengers of the Coho do when she's OOS? They could even have a spare BC Ferry replace her if there are any surplus at the time.

[Kahloke]

WSF does not have a vessel capable of handling the rough conditions of the Strait of Juan De Fuca, nor do they have any vessels licensed to operate that route.

Coho is only out of service for a couple of weeks, and I would imagine traffic on the PA-VIC route is pretty light this time of year, so I don't think it's that much of a hardship not having service for this brief time.

[EGfleet]

Jan 23, 2010 22:12:15 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

Jan 23, 2010 13:35:12 GMT -8 @whidbeyislandguy said:

Nothing does, the run is closed for 2 weeks. And she is not a washington state ferry. she is a Black Ball ferry...........

Yes, I know she is a Black Ball Ferry. That's why I specified that she would be replaced by a Washington State Ferry. If I had thought she was a WSF herself, then I wouldn't have mentioned the company of ferry that would be replacing her. I was sort of thinking that the Black Ball's Coho could be replaced by some WSF Ship, the way that Translink's Albion Ferries were replaced by the BC Ferries' Klitsa when they were in refit.

So... Why doesn't Black Ball replace her? What do regular vehicle passengers of the Coho do when she's OOS? They could even have a spare BC Ferry replace her if there are any surplus at the time.

I think that after 50 years of operation that if the two week absence of the Coho (and often less than that) were an issue, Black Ball would have had a spare vessel built. ;D

[fargowolf]

May 6, 2009 18:44:36 GMT -8 Mill Bay said:

f any other ferry companies in the world use side loading anymore (at least not in the same style).

The AMHS still does use side loading ferries, so I guess that would be the first place they would look. In the end though, I think it will be a new ferry, custom built for that route.

[Deleted]

So... Why doesn't Black Ball replace her? What do regular vehicle passengers of the Coho do when she's OOS? They could even have a spare BC Ferry replace her if there are any surplus at the time.

You do realize that the Coho loads from the side in Victoria, yes? Last time I checked neither WSF nor BCF have any vessels capable of loading from the side. There are no other terminals located in downtown Victoria capable of accommodating a ferry that loads and unloads like WSF and BCF do. Every year the Coho is out of service for only a couple of weeks. I think that Black Ball takes her out of service because of light traffic patterns and people who live in that area have come to expect her to be out of service at the same time each year.

[Mill Bay]

Jan 24, 2010 12:40:23 GMT -8 @qpr said:

So... Why doesn't Black Ball replace her? What do regular vehicle passengers of the Coho do when she's OOS? They could even have a spare BC Ferry replace her if there are any surplus at the time.

You do realize that the Coho loads from the side in Victoria, yes? Last time I checked neither WSF nor BCF have any vessels capable of loading from the side. There are no other terminals located in downtown Victoria capable of accommodating a ferry that loads and unloads like WSF and BCF do. Every year the Coho is out of service for only a couple of weeks. I think that Black Ball takes her out of service because of light traffic patterns and people who live in that area have come to expect her to be out of service at the same time each year.

If one was really that desperate to repair the disruption in service, I believe they once used the Queen of Prince Rupert to fill in on the Victoria-Seattle run, and somehow modified her for side loading. She's still sitting at Dease right now, I believe, so it would probably be quick enough to cut a hole in her side and press her into service. She also would have the see going capabilities to maintain service in the absence of the Coho. The only other way to have this type of service issue resolved would be to have Luke appointed to the Black Ball board of directors so he could have the final say in this matter.

[Deleted]

Mill Bay you're correct the Queen of Prince Rupert was on the Seattle - Victoria run for one season. I believe she was meant to stay on that route longer but the brought the Maggie back the following year. Also, I don't believe to Queen of Prince Rupert carried cars when she was on the Seattle - Victoria route. I do like your idea about putting the Queen of Prince Rupert on the Port Angeles - Victoria route as I think she would make a fine ferry there. Perhaps they could modify her so she could load through the side in Victoria? I would love to ride her across the Straits on that route having a meal in her front cafeteria. I actually never thought of her on this route and now I hope Black Ball will decide to take a look at her?

[Deleted]

Wow! Those are awesome pics of the Coho on dry dock at Dakota Creek. Her hull looks remarkably clean but I am thinking it's probably because they dry dock her once a year. Nice infrared scan by the way it's neat to see her in Black and White all except for the Black Ball flag (yes I see the spot you left out).

[Curtis]

It's almost unbelievable to think that the Coho is 50 Years old and still appears in such good looking condition. I wouldn't be surprised if she lasts as long as the Steel Electrics in that condition...or at least until all the remaining Spaulding ships based off her design are retired. Nice work getting the shots Mr. Pickens.

[lmtengs]

Jan 24, 2010 17:53:15 GMT -8 @qpr said:

Also, I don't believe to Queen of Prince Rupert carried cars when she was on the Seattle - Victoria route. I do like your idea about putting the Queen of Prince Rupert on the Port Angeles - Victoria route as I think she would make a fine ferry there. Perhaps they could modify her so she could load through the side in Victoria?

I think it would be easy enough to bring in some floating dolphins for the Victoria terminal, and they could just dock her stern-in at that terminal. Unless there isn't enough room, because I know for a fact there isn't much maneuvering space in the Inner Harbour. Then QPR wouldn't even need to be modified, at least not much. Maybe the loading ramp would need some mods...

[Northern Exploration]

Some questions for the suggestor.

Does the ferry qualify under the terms of the new Tranport Canada guidelines for passenger service?

Does the international route have any bearing on the use of the Ferry?

What other modifications would be necessary beyond the side loading?

[Kahloke]

Jan 25, 2010 23:39:31 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

I think it would be easy enough to bring in some floating dolphins for the Victoria terminal, and they could just dock her stern-in at that terminal. Unless there isn't enough room, because I know for a fact there isn't much maneuvering space in the Inner Harbour. Then QPR wouldn't even need to be modified, at least not much. Maybe the loading ramp would need some mods...

They stern-load in Port Angeles, so unless they can load vehicles in such a way as to turn them around inside the vessel for stern-only loading and unloading, I think that's pretty much a no-go. Of course, this conversation is academic seeing as how QPR is retired. Besides, with Coho only out of service for 2 weeks during the lightest travel time of the year, and with plenty of advance notice written into the schedule, I don't think too many people are put out by its brief absense. As was mentioned earlier, Black Ball's been doing this successfully for years.

[SS San Mateo]

Jan 26, 2010 8:37:28 GMT -8 Northern Exploration said:

Does the ferry qualify under the terms of the new Tranport Canada guidelines for passenger service?

I was wondering about that myself. I recall seeing something that said the QPR had to be retired by a certain year (2009?).

Jan 26, 2010 8:37:28 GMT -8 Northern Exploration said:

Does the international route have any bearing on the use of the Ferry?

Yes. Vessels on that route have to meet SOLAS standards.

Jan 26, 2010 8:37:28 GMT -8 Northern Exploration said:

What other modifications would be necessary beyond the side loading?

Upgrades to meet SOLAS requirements.

[WettCoast]

Regarding this discussion on SOLAS standards and a replacement boat for the Coho...

I assume the Coho was built to meet standards that were in effect fifty years ago? I expect, for instance, that it meets the requirement for single compartment stability, but not the more modern two plus compartment stability standard? Does anyone know. If the QPR had to be retired due to not meeting modern SOLAS requirements, then why does the Coho continue in service?

My guess is that it is no closer to meeting current SOLAS requirements then is the QPR. The requirements for the Coho may be less stringent, however, as it is operating close to large population centres on a relatively short route, whereas the QPR was out in the wilds of Hecate Strait.

One other thing... I assume the Coho could be replaced with a foriegn built ship? As it is travelling on an 'international' route the requirements of the Jones Act do not apply? Again, does anyone know for sure?

[lmtengs]

Jan 26, 2010 20:41:35 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Regarding this discussion on SOLAS standards and a replacement boat for the Coho...

I assume the Coho was built to meet standards that were in effect fifty years ago? I expect, for instance, that it meets the requirement for single compartment stability, but not the more modern two plus compartment stability standard? Does anyone know. If the QPR had to be retired due to not meeting modern SOLAS requirements, then why does the Coho continue in service?

And how did the Steel E's stay in service so long? They were built just two decades after Titanic, so I doubt standards were very high then...

[Mill Bay]

Jan 26, 2010 21:42:12 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

Jan 26, 2010 20:41:35 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Regarding this discussion on SOLAS standards and a replacement boat for the Coho...

I assume the Coho was built to meet standards that were in effect fifty years ago? I expect, for instance, that it meets the requirement for single compartment stability, but not the more modern two plus compartment stability standard? Does anyone know. If the QPR had to be retired due to not meeting modern SOLAS requirements, then why does the Coho continue in service?

And how did the Steel E's stay in service so long? They were built just two decades after Titanic, so I doubt standards were very high then...

On the contrary... the Titanic was quite advanced in shipbuilding for her time. She just happened to encounter an event that exceeded her design limitations. The Coho, QPR or any other vessel could just as easily meet with such an incident. The Queen of the North certainly did, and she was considerably newer than the Titanic and, more up to date, we would have thought.

As far as we know the Coho is SOLAS compliant simply because it is necessitated by the international nature of her route. Her age really isn't a severely limiting factor. The compartment rule might effect what class of vessel she has to be licensed as in order to be considered SOLAS compliant.

There are also certain upgrades that can be done to a ship to bring it in line with SOLAS standards, although I would assume that there are certain ways it can be done that can still qualify, even if those officiating the standards have an express way they would prefer to see it done. In any case, older ships than the Coho carry SOLAS certificates, so it is not specifically her age, but also a variety of other factors that would qualify, or disqualify her.

[WettCoast]

I believe SOLAS requirements are not mandatory for vessels operated solely within any given country's territorial waters. Agencies like Transport Canada or its US equivalent may opt to enforce standards that are more or perhaps less stringent than those of SOLAS.

The Coho on the otherhand operates on an international route & it is my understanding that meeting SOLAS standards is not an option. I would be supprised if the Coho actually meets a higher standard than does/did the QPR. The only saving grace for the Coho may be that it operates near shore in somewhat protected waters.

[lmtengs]

Jan 26, 2010 21:51:16 GMT -8 Mill Bay said:

Jan 26, 2010 21:42:12 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

And how did the Steel E's stay in service so long? They were built just two decades after Titanic, so I doubt standards were very high then...

On the contrary... the Titanic was quite advanced in shipbuilding for her time. She just happened to encounter an event that exceeded her design limitations. The Coho, QPR or any other vessel could just as easily meet with such an incident. The Queen of the North certainly did, and she was considerably newer than the Titanic and, more up to date, we would have thought.

As far as we know the Coho is SOLAS compliant simply because it is necessitated by the international nature of her route. Her age really isn't a severely limiting factor. The compartment rule might effect what class of vessel she has to be licensed as in order to be considered SOLAS compliant.

There are also certain upgrades that can be done to a ship to bring it in line with SOLAS standards, although I would assume that there are certain ways it can be done that can still qualify, even if those officiating the standards have an express way they would prefer to see it done. In any case, older ships than the Coho carry SOLAS certificates, so it is not specifically her age, but also a variety of other factors that would qualify, or disqualify her.

You misread me there

I meant that the Steel E's couldn't have been as advanced as the Coho. I know much about Titanic, and what I do know is that if it weren't for making that portside turn when they saw the ideberg, the Titanic would have survived the collision, because any 5 watertight compartments could be flooded at the same time for her to stay afloat.

[Curtis]

Jan 26, 2010 22:09:09 GMT -8 @lmtengs said:

I know much about Titanic, and what I do know is that if it weren't for making that portside turn when they saw the ideberg, the Titanic would have survived the collision, because any 5 watertight compartments could be flooded at the same time for her to stay afloat.

...and that James Cameron movie would have either not been made or bombed at the box office.

Back to discussion though...

The SE being more advanced than the Coho depends on when you're asking. If you're talking about their original form, you're probably right, but when they were rebuilt is questionable. However, I'm sure the Coho has always needed to meet SOLAS requirements, so its safety measures likely trump the Steels either way unless WSF decided they needed SOLAS. Besides, we're comparing designs made 30 years apart from each other...and rebuilds made 20 years after the Coho, which has sailed almost unchanged since launch.

[cobblehillian]

Until I were to check the legal papers on board the COHO I would assume the Ship has a conditional SOLAS compliance certificate much like that of the WSF Chelan.

[Barnacle]

that having been said, nobody's explained where WSF would get the money to (a) acquire said boat, (b) upgrade it, or (c) justify the purchase of a single-route boat... *cough*Chetzemoka*cough*...

[BreannaF]

Quick, dumb question: Was the Coho always on the PA-Victoria run, or did it start out somewhere else?

And, am I correct that it replaced the Kalakala, or is some other ferry in the timeline here?

OK, that was two dumb questions......